• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Are there any SDAs aout there who do not agree with the state of the dead doctrine

T

TrustAndObey

Guest
Yes, it really isn't "taught" in Messianic congregations either way, there is more leeway than in SDA church.

Well, like I said, I'm glad there ISN'T more leeway in my church about this subject.

Isn't it a little hard to discuss with people what it is Messianics believe and teach when it's so split down the middle on some topics? (No offense to my Messianic friends)

But most of the people I know at my synagogue believe as I do which is the same belief in the afterlife that most Protestants have.

But you don't hear that from the teachings of the church right? You just said it isn't taught there, and that it's simply accepted as some Messianics' view, correct?

I don't really see the Bible as saying for sure one way or the other, it can be interpreted either way. I DO believe Y'shua changed things and belief in Him activates something that gives us immortality of the soul.

One of the last SDA sermons I heard it was said that part of the reason for the state of the dead doctrine is so that Adventists won't be fooled by spirits posing as "departed" loved ones that would tell them not to believe what Ellen White said or Adventist doctrine.
Yes, I ACTUALLY heard this in an SDA sermon I'm not kidding. It was one of the very last SDA sermons I ever heard.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

It's always amazing to me what whacked out sermons some of you ex-Adventists have heard. Never once have I heard that said in our church, so either you took one guy's twisted view and used it against the whole church, or you're trying to paint a picture of my church that isn't good. For whatever reason.

That is not what is taught in the mainstream church (just in case any lurkers are here).

However, the fact that we sleep after death until the resurrection really is important so that none of us ever thinks it's okay to pray that Mary (sleeping in the grave) will pray for us, etc.

When you feel very strongly about this teaching, and you realize how 99.9% of churches lie about it (unknowingly) then you have to wonder what else they're misrepresenting and you know what churches to RUN from.

That's why I tell people READ IT FOR YOURSELF.
 
Upvote 0

Lebesgue

Senior Member
Feb 25, 2008
717
28
✟23,529.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Well, like I said, I'm glad there ISN'T more leeway in my church about this subject.

Isn't it a little hard to discuss with people what it is Messianics believe and teach when it's so split down the middle on some topics? (No offense to my Messianic friends)



But you don't hear that from the teachings of the church right? You just said it isn't taught there, and that it's simply accepted as some Messianics' view, correct?



It's always amazing to me what whacked out sermons some of you ex-Adventists have heard. Never once have I heard that said in our church, so either you took one guy's twisted view and used it against the whole church, or you're trying to paint a picture of my church that isn't good. For whatever reason.

That is not what is taught in the mainstream church (just in case any lurkers are here).

However, the fact that we sleep after death until the resurrection really is important so that none of us ever thinks it's okay to pray that Mary (sleeping in the grave) will pray for us, etc.

When you feel very strongly about this teaching, and you realize how 99.9% of churches lie about it (unknowingly) then you have to wonder what else they're misrepresenting and you know what churches to RUN from.

That's why I tell people READ IT FOR YOURSELF.

I didn't go to mainstream SDA Churches. I went to Indonesian and Filipino SDA Churches my ENTIRE 14 years as an SDA and they are VERY traditional and you WILL hear such whacked out sermons on a frequent basis in such churches from my experience.

That said I was NEVER able to accept the SDA doctrine on the state of the dead and secretly kept my own beliefs on that the entire time I was an SDA.
I never really wanted to be an SDA anyway and only became one for my wife. When I decided to accept Y'shua 15 years ago, I WANTED to be a Baptist, but my wife would have none of that and pretty much made me choose the SDA church even though I didn't want to.

I forgive her for that. Though I would think she would be glad that I was repenting of the false Eastern religion(Baha'i) that I was involved in and desirous of being any kind of Christian but I went to SDA church with her every Sabbath even when I was a Baha'i and DID NOT like it at all. When I accepted Y'shua I wanted so badly to go to a Baptist Church because that was more in line with what I believed but my wife would have none of it.

I think part of the reason she has been so supportive of my being Messianic is I think she is sorry that she really influenced me to be an SDA when I really didn't want to be one. And I forgave her a long time ago for that as I know she was only doing that out of love for me and not wanting me to be "lost" and her heart was in the right place. G-d had a purpose for my being SDA those 14 years, it prepared me for being Messianic which I really like and believe. IF I had been allowed to have been a Baptist like I originally wanted to that probably wouldn't have happened.(not that there's anything wrong with being a Baptist I think Baptists get a LOT of things right and I really respect their STRICT adherence to Scripture).

Shalom,

Lebesgue
 
Upvote 0

Jon0388g

Veteran
Aug 11, 2006
1,259
29
London
✟24,167.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
I didn't go to mainstream SDA Churches. I went to Indonesian and Filipino SDA Churches my ENTIRE 14 years as an SDA and they are VERY traditional and you WILL hear such whacked out sermons on a frequent basis in such churches from my experience.

That said I was NEVER able to accept the SDA doctrine on the state of the dead and secretly kept my own beliefs on that the entire time I was an SDA.
I never really wanted to be an SDA anyway and only became one for my wife. When I decided to accept Y'shua 15 years ago, I WANTED to be a Baptist, but my wife would have none of that and pretty much made me choose the SDA church even though I didn't want to.

I forgive her for that. Though I would think she would be glad that I was repenting of the false Eastern religion(Baha'i) that I was involved in and desirous of being any kind of Christian but I went to SDA church with her every Sabbath even when I was a Baha'i and DID NOT like it at all. When I accepted Y'shua I wanted so badly to go to a Baptist Church because that was more in line with what I believed but my wife would have none of it.

I think part of the reason she has been so supportive of my being Messianic is I think she is sorry that she forced me to be an SDA. And I forgave her a long time ago for that as I know she was only doing that out of love for me and not wanting me to be "lost" and her heart was in the right place. G-d had a purpose for my being SDA those 14 years, it prepared me for being Messianic which I really like and believe. IF I had been allowed to have been a Baptist like I originally wanted to that probably wouldn't have happened.(not that there's anything wrong with being a Baptist I think Baptists get a LOT of things right and I really respect their STRICT adherence to Scripture).

Shalom,

Lebesgue


Why haven't you addressed OntheDL's post which clearly show Scripture stating that David, nor Christ Himself had ascended to heaven at death, as you say the Bible teaches?


Jon
 
Upvote 0

NightEternal

Evangelical SDA
Apr 18, 2007
5,639
127
Toronto, Ontario
✟6,559.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
One of the last SDA sermons I heard it was said that part of the reason for the state of the dead doctrine is so that Adventists won't be fooled by spirits posing as "departed" loved ones that would tell them not to believe what Ellen White said or Adventist doctrine.
Yes, I ACTUALLY heard this in an SDA sermon I'm not kidding. It was one of the very last SDA sermons I ever heard.

It's always amazing to me what whacked out sermons some of you ex-Adventists have heard. Never once have I heard that said in our church, so either you took one guy's twisted view and used it against the whole church, or you're trying to paint a picture of my church that isn't good. For whatever reason.

That is not what is taught in the mainstream church (just in case any lurkers are here.)

Trust, just so you know, Sophia has already stated she has heard this in the mainstream church. So it IS being claimed by some Adventists.

It's embarassing, but denying it doesn't help anyone. There are some strange ideas making the rounds in the church. I have not heard this particular gem myself personally, but I have heard other, just as disturbing claims being made.

In the mainline church.
 
Upvote 0

Lebesgue

Senior Member
Feb 25, 2008
717
28
✟23,529.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
One of the last SDA sermons I heard it was said that part of the reason for the state of the dead doctrine is so that Adventists won't be fooled by spirits posing as "departed" loved ones that would tell them not to believe what Ellen White said or Adventist doctrine.
Yes, I ACTUALLY heard this in an SDA sermon I'm not kidding. It was one of the very last SDA sermons I ever heard.



Trust, just so you know, Sophia has already stated she has heard this in the mainstream church. So it IS being claimed by some Adventists.

It's embarassing, but denying it doesn't help anyone. There are some strange ideas making the rounds in the church. I have not heard this particular gem myself personally, but I have heard other, just as disturbing claims being made.

In the mainline church.

I am just so glad I am not subjected to that anymore.

Night, I respect what you and the other Progs are trying to do but you're fighting a LOSING battle. The SDA church is NEVER going to enact the reforms that progs want because the MAJORITY of believers in the SDA Church are in the 3rd World and VERY TRADITIONAL.
They are not going to alienate the majority of their membership by making the changes the progs want made.

Please don't take offence to this but wouldn't you be happier at a Seventh Day Baptist Church? Have you tried one?

Shalom,

Lebesgue
 
Upvote 0

Sophia7

Tall73's Wife
Site Supporter
Sep 24, 2005
12,364
456
✟84,145.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
One of the last SDA sermons I heard it was said that part of the reason for the state of the dead doctrine is so that Adventists won't be fooled by spirits posing as "departed" loved ones that would tell them not to believe what Ellen White said or Adventist doctrine.
Yes, I ACTUALLY heard this in an SDA sermon I'm not kidding. It was one of the very last SDA sermons I ever heard.



Trust, just so you know, Sophia has already stated she has heard this in the mainstream church. So it IS being claimed by some Adventists.

It's embarassing, but denying it doesn't help anyone. There are some strange ideas making the rounds in the church. I have not heard this particular gem myself personally, but I have heard other, just as disturbing claims being made.

In the mainline church.

Yes, I have heard it in the "mainstream" SDA Church. That shouldn't be surprising to anyone since EGW wrote about it:
The teachers of spiritualism come in a pleasing, bewitching manner to deceive you, and if you listen to their fables you are beguiled by the enemy of righteousness and will surely lose your reward. When once the fascinating influence of the archdeceiver overcomes you, you are poisoned, and its deadly influence adulterates and destroys your faith in Christ's being the Son of God, and you cease to rely on the merits of His blood. Those deceived by this philosophy are beguiled of their reward through the deceptions of Satan. They rely upon their own merits, exercise voluntary humility, are even willing to make sacrifices, and debase themselves, and yield their minds to the belief of supreme nonsense, receiving the most absurd ideas through those whom they believe to be their dead friends. Satan has so blinded their eyes and perverted their judgment that they perceive not the evil; and they follow out the instructions purporting to be from their dead friends now angels in a higher sphere. {1T 297.2}

Satan has chosen a most certain, fascinating delusion, one that is calculated to take hold of the sympathies of those who have laid their loved ones in the grave. Evil angels assume the form of these loved ones and relate incidents connected with their lives and perform acts which their friends performed while living. In this way they deceive and lead the relatives of the dead to believe that their deceased friends are angels hovering about them and communing with them. These they regard with a certain idolatry, and what they may say has greater influence over them than the word of God. These evil angels, who assume to be dead friends, will either utterly reject God's word as idle tales, or, if it suit their purpose best, will select the vital portions which testify of Christ and point out the way to heaven, and change the plain statements of the word of God to suit their own corrupt nature and ruin souls. With due attention to the word of God, all may be convinced if they will of this soul-destroying delusion. The word of God declares in positive terms that "the dead know not anything." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6: "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun." {1T 298.1}

Deceived mortals are worshiping evil angels, believing them to be the spirits of their dead friends. The word of God expressly declares that the dead have no more a portion in anything done under the sun. Spiritualists say that the dead know everything that is done under the sun, that they communicate to their friends on earth, give valuable information, and perform wonders. Psalm 115:17: "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." Satan, transformed into an angel of light, works with all deceivableness of unrighteousness. He who could take up the Son of God, who was made a little lower than the angels, and place Him upon a pinnacle of the temple, and take Him up into an exceeding high mountain to present before Him the kingdoms of the world, can exercise his power upon the human family, who are far inferior in strength and wisdom to the Son of God, even after He had taken upon Himself man's nature. {1T 298.2}

In this degenerate age, Satan holds control over those who depart from the right and venture upon his ground. He exercises his power upon such in an alarming manner. I was directed to these words: "Intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind." Some, I was shown, gratify their curiosity and tamper with the devil. They have no real faith in spiritualism and would start back with horror at the idea of being mediums. Yet they venture and place themselves in a position where Satan can exercise his power upon them. Such do not mean to enter deep into this work, but they know not what they are doing. They are venturing on the devil's ground and are tempting him to control them. This powerful destroyer considers them his lawful prey and exercises his power upon them, and that against their will. When they wish to control themselves they cannot. They yielded their minds to Satan, and he will not release his claims, but holds them captive. No power can deliver the ensnared soul but the power of God in answer to the earnest prayers of His faithful followers. {1T 299.1}

The only safety now is to search for the truth as revealed in the word of God, as for hid treasure. The subjects of the Sabbath, the nature of man, and the testimony of Jesus are the great and important truths to be understood; these will prove as an anchor to hold God's people in these perilous times. But the mass of mankind despise the truths of God's word and prefer fables. 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 11: "Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." {1T 300.1}

The most licentious and corrupt are highly flattered by these Satanic spirits, which they believe to be the spirits of their dead friends, and they are vainly puffed up in their fleshly minds. Colossians 2:19: "And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God," they deny Him who ministers strength to the body, that every member may increase with the increase of God. {1T 300.2}​
 
Upvote 0

Sophia7

Tall73's Wife
Site Supporter
Sep 24, 2005
12,364
456
✟84,145.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here's another EGW quote:
Those who oppose the teachings of Spiritualism are assailing, not men alone, but Satan and his angels. They have entered upon a contest against principalities and powers and wicked spirits in high places. Satan will not yield one inch of ground except as he is driven back by the power of heavenly messengers. The people of God should be able to meet him, as did our Saviour, with the words, "It is written." Satan can quote Scripture now as in the days of Christ, and he will pervert its teachings to sustain his delusions. But the plain statements of the Bible will furnish weapons powerful in every conflict. {4SP 376.2}

Those who would stand in this time of peril must understand the testimony of the Scriptures concerning the nature of man and the state of the dead; for in the near future many will be confronted by the spirits of devils personating beloved relatives or friends, and declaring the most dangerous heresies. These visitants will appeal to our tenderest sympathies, and will work miracles to sustain their pretensions. We must be prepared to withstand them with the Bible truth that the dead know not anything, and that they who thus appear are the spirits of devils. {4SP 377.1}

Just before us is the "hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." [REV. 3:10.] All whose faith is not firmly established upon the word of God will be deceived and overcome. But to those who earnestly seek a knowledge of the truth, thus doing what they can to prepare for the conflict, the God of truth will be a sure defense. "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee," is the Saviour's promise. He would sooner send every angel out of Heaven to protect his people, than leave one soul that trusts in him to be overcome by Satan. {4SP 377.2}

The prophet Isaiah brings to view the fearful deception which will come upon the wicked, causing them to count themselves secure from the judgments of God: "We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement. When the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us; for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves." [ISA. 28:15.] In the class here described are included those who in their stubborn impenitence comfort themselves with the assurance that there is to be no punishment for the sinner; that all mankind, it matters not how corrupt, are to be exalted to Heaven to become as the angels of God. But still more emphatically are those making a covenant with death and an agreement with hell, who renounce the truths which Heaven has provided as a defense for the righteous in the day of trouble, and accept the refuge of lies offered by Satan in its stead, --the delusive pretensions of Spiritualism. {4SP 377.3}

Marvelous beyond expression is the blindness of the people of this generation. Thousands reject the word of God as unworthy of belief, and with eager confidence receive the deceptions of Satan. Skeptics and scoffers with great clamor denounce the bigotry of those who contend for the faith of prophets and apostles, and they divert themselves by holding up to ridicule the solemn declarations of the Scriptures concerning Christ and the plan of salvation, and the retribution to be visited upon the rejecters of the truth. They affect great pity for minds so narrow, weak, and superstitious as to acknowledge the claims of God, and obey the requirements of his law. They manifest as much assurance as if, indeed, they had made a covenant with death and an agreement with hell,--as if they had erected an impassable, impenetrable barrier between themselves and the vengeance of God. Nothing can arouse their fears. So fully have they yielded to the tempter, so closely are they united with him, and so thoroughly imbued with his spirit, that they have no power and no inclination to break away from his snare. {4SP 378.1}

Long has Satan been preparing for his final effort to deceive the world. The foundation of his work was laid by the assurance given to Eve in Eden, "Ye shall not surely die." "In the day that ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Little by little he has prepared the way for his master-piece of deception in the development of Spiritualism. He has not yet reached the full accomplishment of his designs; but it will be reached in the last remnant of time, and the world will be swept into the ranks of this delusion. They are fast being lulled into a fatal security, to be awakened only by the outpouring of the wrath of God. {4SP 379.1}

Saith the Lord God: "Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet; and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding-place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand. When the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it." [ISA. 28:17, 18.] {4SP 379.2}
 
Upvote 0

Sophia7

Tall73's Wife
Site Supporter
Sep 24, 2005
12,364
456
✟84,145.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And another:
The rapping delusion was presented before me, and I saw that Satan has power to bring before us the appearance of forms purporting to be our relatives or friends who sleep in Jesus. It will be made to appear as if these friends were actually present, the words they uttered while here, with which we were familiar, will be spoken, and the same tone of voice that they had while living will fall upon the ear. All this is to deceive the world and ensnare them into the belief of this delusion. {EW 262.1}

I saw that the saints must have a thorough understanding of present truth, which they will be obliged to maintain from the Scriptures. They must understand the state of the dead; for the spirits of devils will yet appear to them, professing to be beloved relatives or friends, who will declare to them unscriptural doctrines. They will do all in their power to excite sympathy and will work miracles before them to confirm what they declare. The people of God must be prepared to withstand these spirits with the Bible truth that the dead know not anything, and that they who thus appear are the spirits of devils. {EW 262.2}

We must examine well the foundation of our hope; for we shall have to give a reason for it from the Scriptures. This delusion will spread, and we shall have to contend with it face to face; and unless we are prepared for it, we shall be ensnared and overcome. But if we do what we can on our part to be ready for the conflict that is just before us, God will do His part, and His all-powerful arm will protect us. He would sooner send every angel out of glory to make a hedge about faithful souls, than have them deceived and led away by the lying wonders of Satan. {EW 262.3}​
 
Upvote 0

JonMiller

Senior Veteran
Jun 6, 2007
7,165
195
✟30,831.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
To be honest, I know a lot of Christians who get into spiritualism with the purpose of contacting dead loved ones/etc.

So while I don't know about 'dead' spirits talking about EGW. But I do think that some people go the wrong way with respect to spiritualism due to their beleif in the state of the dead.

JM
 
Upvote 0

Sophia7

Tall73's Wife
Site Supporter
Sep 24, 2005
12,364
456
✟84,145.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
To be honest, I know a lot of Christians who get into spiritualism with the purpose of contacting dead loved ones/etc.

So while I don't know about 'dead' spirits talking about EGW. But I do think that some people go the wrong way with respect to spiritualism due to their beleif in the state of the dead.

JM

On the other hand, I know a lot of Christians who believe in immortality of the soul but who do not believe that the dead are allowed to have any contact with the living, so they don't try to contact them or pray to them.
 
Upvote 0

Lebesgue

Senior Member
Feb 25, 2008
717
28
✟23,529.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
On the other hand, I know a lot of Christians who believe in immortality of the soul but who do not believe that the dead are allowed to have any contact with the living, so they don't try to contact them or pray to them.

Exactly, Sophia.

I believe in the immortality of the soul but also believe that the dead CANNOT contact the living or vice versa.

Shalom,

Lebesgue
 
Upvote 0
T

TrustAndObey

Guest
Sophia, I wear glasses, but I'm not blind. :)

Read what he said again. He said that if someone believed in immortality of the soul he was TOLD in a sermon that spirits would tell him not to believe in EGW or Adventist doctrine.

This isn't Adventist doctrine people, it's TRUTH. The bible says the dead will NOT go back to their homes, so if you are visited by a spirit...I cannot say this enough....RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN!

And guess what, I know for a FACT satan will use the people you love, whether they're dead or living, to get to you.

Everything you just pasted from EGW makes absolute sense to me, sorry.
 
Upvote 0

Lebesgue

Senior Member
Feb 25, 2008
717
28
✟23,529.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Lebesgue, are you telling us in all sincerity that your wife forced you to attend an Adventist church for 14 years? If so, there's some issues there that really can't be worked out on a message board.

Well she didn't exactly force me to go. But she pretty much didn't want me going to other churches. I could have but I might not have liked the result. And there was a period in that 14 years that I eventually did wind up believing that SDAism is true even though I didn't like it.

There are no issues. I have left the SDA church and she has been WONDERFUL about it.

What I was trying to say was that 15 years ago when I accepted Y'shua I WANTED to be a Baptist and she wouldn't allow it as she felt the SDA Church was the ONLY true Church so it was pretty much that if I wanted to be a Christian. "Force" probably isn't the best word but I didn't get my way at the time.

As I said even though I never really liked the Adventist doctrines I eventually wound up believing in them(except for the state of the dead) until the 3Q 2006 Adult Sabbath School Quarterly came out and I found out the IJ and 1844 were a total sham.

No she didn't force me to go to SDA church for 14 years, she just didn't let me be a Baptist like I wanted to be when I first accepted Y'shua. And I know it was out of love and not wanting me to be "lost" and I believe G-d had a purpose for me spending 14 years in the SDA Church.

But like I said she has been VERY gracious and SUPPORTIVE about my leaving the SDA Church, there are NO issues.

Shalom,

Lebesgue
 
Upvote 0

Lebesgue

Senior Member
Feb 25, 2008
717
28
✟23,529.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Sophia, I wear glasses, but I'm not blind. :)

Read what he said again. He said that if someone believed in immortality of the soul he was TOLD in a sermon that spirits would tell him not to believe in EGW or Adventist doctrine.

This isn't Adventist doctrine people, it's TRUTH. The bible says the dead will NOT go back to their homes, so if you are visited by a spirit...I cannot say this enough....RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN!

And guess what, I know for a FACT satan will use the people you love, whether they're dead or living, to get to you.

Everything you just pasted from EGW makes absolute sense to me, sorry.

As I said although I believe in the immorality of the soul, I believe the souls of the dead CANNOT contact us nor can we contact them.

Since I don't believe in Ellen White and Adventist doctrine this is a nonissue for me anyway.

As for Shabbat, I keep that because G-d commanded it. I don't need Ellen White to tell me to observe Shabbat, the Bible says so.

Shalom,

Lebesgue
 
Upvote 0

Eila

Senior Veteran
Jan 19, 2007
2,473
166
Visit site
✟25,980.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
One of the last SDA sermons I heard it was said that part of the reason for the state of the dead doctrine is so that Adventists won't be fooled by spirits posing as "departed" loved ones that would tell them not to believe what Ellen White said or Adventist doctrine.
Yes, I ACTUALLY heard this in an SDA sermon I'm not kidding. It was one of the very last SDA sermons I ever heard.



Trust, just so you know, Sophia has already stated she has heard this in the mainstream church. So it IS being claimed by some Adventists.

It's embarassing, but denying it doesn't help anyone. There are some strange ideas making the rounds in the church. I have not heard this particular gem myself personally, but I have heard other, just as disturbing claims being made.

In the mainline church.

I agree. I have heard this many times in the mainline church - even here at CF. I've heard it at 3ABN as well in one of their televised prophecy seminars. It would be hard not to hear this idea if you grew up in the SDA church and went to SDA schools. However, if one's experience is "newer" or only as an adult they may not have encountered it yet.
 
Upvote 0

Eila

Senior Veteran
Jan 19, 2007
2,473
166
Visit site
✟25,980.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This isn't Adventist doctrine people, it's TRUTH. The bible says the dead will NOT go back to their homes, so if you are visited by a spirit...I cannot say this enough....RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN!

This reminds me of a prophecy seminar I watched on 3ABN. The speaker was telling a story of an encounter with a spirit and how he ran away as fast as he could.

There is another perspective here. We are not taught in the Scripture to run from evil spirits, but to tell them to go. They do not have power over us, but we who have God living in us have power over them. So if you are visited or encounter an evil spirit tell it to go.
 
Upvote 0

Sophia7

Tall73's Wife
Site Supporter
Sep 24, 2005
12,364
456
✟84,145.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sophia, I wear glasses, but I'm not blind. :)

Read what he said again. He said that if someone believed in immortality of the soul he was TOLD in a sermon that spirits would tell him not to believe in EGW or Adventist doctrine.

This isn't Adventist doctrine people, it's TRUTH. The bible says the dead will NOT go back to their homes, so if you are visited by a spirit...I cannot say this enough....RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN!

And guess what, I know for a FACT satan will use the people you love, whether they're dead or living, to get to you.

Everything you just pasted from EGW makes absolute sense to me, sorry.

Not sure what the blind reference is for; I never said you were blind. I posted those quotes because you were acting as if what Lebesgue heard about people being visited by demons impersonating their dead loved ones and being deceived into rejecting Adventist "truths" isn't taught in mainstream Adventism. It is. It's not some "whacked out," extremist version of Adventism; it's what EGW wrote, so unless the SDA Church stops accepting her writings as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth," it's a part of mainstream Adventism.
 
Upvote 0

NightEternal

Evangelical SDA
Apr 18, 2007
5,639
127
Toronto, Ontario
✟6,559.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Thanks Sophia. You just saved me a bundle of typing time. It's like you read my mind. ;)

Indeed, Trust is totally contradicting herself, but maybe she doesn't see it.

First:

It's always amazing to me what whacked out sermons some of you ex-Adventists have heard. Never once have I heard that said in our church, so either you took one guy's twisted view and used it against the whole church, or you're trying to paint a picture of my church that isn't good. For whatever reason.

Then:


He said that if someone believed in immortality of the soul he was TOLD in a sermon that spirits would tell him not to believe in EGW or Adventist doctrine.

This isn't Adventist doctrine people, it's TRUTH. The bible says the dead will NOT go back to their homes, so if you are visited by a spirit...I cannot say this enough....RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN!

And guess what, I know for a FACT satan will use the people you love, whether they're dead or living, to get to you.

Everything you just pasted from EGW makes absolute sense to me, sorry.


So which is it? Is the idea of dead people coming back to try and deceive you a whacked out and twisted view or is it a true, factual view that makes sense?
 
Upvote 0