Are there any saints who had a difficult relationship with the Church?

[Michie]

Q: Are there any saints who had a difficult relationship with the Church?

A: The answer to this question would depend on exactly what you mean by “a difficult relationship” or even the term “the Church.” But the short answer is that yes, there have been many canonized saints who were treated very badly by church leaders of their day, through no fault of their own.

To give just a few examples: St. Joan of Arcwas condemned as a heretic in a clearly biased and politically motivated ecclesiastical trial and was subsequently burned at the stake; St. John of the Cross was imprisoned and regularly beaten by the members of his own religious community due to his work for the reform of the Carmelite Order; St. Mary MacKillop of Australia was unjustly excommunicated in retaliation for her reporting child abuse; and St. Padre Pio was for a time forbidden from exercising public priestly ministry due to concerns about his extraordinary mystical gifts, notably his stigmata (i.e., his bearing of the five wounds of Christ on his own body).

A distinction between the Church and her people​

Continued below.

Are there any saints who had a difficult relationship with the Church?

Discover saints who faced persecution by the Church, showing courage and unwavering faith despite human failings.

www.oursundayvisitor.com

 

[fide]

Q: Are there any saints who had a difficult relationship with the Church?

A: The answer to this question would depend on exactly what you mean by “a difficult relationship” or even the term “the Church.” But the short answer is that yes, there have been many canonized saints who were treated very badly by church leaders of their day, through no fault of their own.

To give just a few examples: St. Joan of Arcwas condemned as a heretic in a clearly biased and politically motivated ecclesiastical trial and was subsequently burned at the stake; St. John of the Cross was imprisoned and regularly beaten by the members of his own religious community due to his work for the reform of the Carmelite Order; St. Mary MacKillop of Australia was unjustly excommunicated in retaliation for her reporting child abuse; and St. Padre Pio was for a time forbidden from exercising public priestly ministry due to concerns about his extraordinary mystical gifts, notably his stigmata (i.e., his bearing of the five wounds of Christ on his own body).

A distinction between the Church and her people​

Continued below.

Are there any saints who had a difficult relationship with the Church?

Discover saints who faced persecution by the Church, showing courage and unwavering faith despite human failings.

www.oursundayvisitor.com

I would say every saint has had - and all future saints will have if they have not had it by now - a difficult relationship with the Church. The Scriptural affirmation of this is abundant, yet much is hidden in parables that specifically allow the mystery to remain hidden from those having eyes but do not see, and ears but do not hear. Paul is close to being frank in some places, for example here:

Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, "Abba! Father!"
Rom 8:16 it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

And Jesus Himself:

Jhn 15:18 "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.
Jhn 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also.
Jhn 15:21 But all this they will do to you on my account, because they do not know him who sent me.
Jhn 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
Jhn 15:23 He who hates me hates my Father also.
Jhn 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father.
Jhn 15:25 It is to fulfil the word that is written in their law, 'They hated me without a cause.'
Jhn 15:26 But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me;
Jhn 15:27 and you also are witnesses, because you have been with me from the beginning.

Who is the "they" of whom Jesus speaks, the citizens of "the world" who hated Him? These are the ones in institutional religion, the professional religious men and women who entered the sheepfold [the Church] not by the Door Who is Christ, but who climbed in by another way,those are thieves and robbers, not shepherds:

Jhn 10:1 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber;
Jhn 10:2 but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Jhn 10:3 To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
Jhn 10:4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
Jhn 10:5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."
Jhn 10:6 This figure Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.
Jhn 10:7 So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
Jhn 10:8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not heed them.
Jhn 10:9 I am the door; if any one enters by me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
Jhn 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:12 He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.
Jhn 10:13 He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep.
Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,
Jhn 10:15 as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.

We all know now of "the swamp" of the world who seek their own profit while they pretend "to serve" the public. This, Jesus describes in His teaching above quoted: they claim to be "shepherds" but they are merely "hired men" advancing their own ambitions. Jesus warned us because He wants us to know, and to discern, and to persevere in Truth, faithfully trusting Him, the true God Who IS. HE will separate the sheep from the goats, on that Day. We must remain true to the Truth.

 

[Bob Crowley]

While others have dealth with the "church" in its official capacity, I'm constantly amazed at the number of times canonised saints were persecuted by their own religious peers.

I've got a copy of Butller's "Saint for the Day" and I usually read one per day. A considerable number seemed to have had trouble with other members of their own order.

For example January 6 St. Raphaela Mary Porras (1850-1925) - "...But the bishop of Cordoba, Mgr. Ceferino Gonzalez, resented the community's presence and ordered them out of the diocese".

January 13 St. Hilary of Poitiers (about 315-367) - "...The Arians then persuaded the emperor that Hilary was more of a nuisance to them in exile in Phrygia that he would be back in Gaul, so Constantius sent him home."

January 6 Blessed Joseph Vaz (1651-17110 - "... gained the reputation of being a true sanyasi, a holy ascetic, with people of all religions, but not with the Portuguese ecclesiastical authorities in Goa, who accused him of disloyalty... As a 'native' he was barred from the mainstream religious orders.."

January 31 St. John Bosco (1815-1888) - "... He was regarded as either subversive of the parish and political order or both ..."

Some of their worst enemies were other Christians.

 

[fide]

While others have dealth with the "church" in its official capacity, I'm constantly amazed at the number of times canonised saints were persecuted by their own religious peers.

I've got a copy of Butller's "Saint for the Day" and I usually read one per day. A considerable number seemed to have had trouble with other members of their own order.

For example January 6 St. Raphaela Mary Porras (1850-1925) - "...But the bishop of Cordoba, Mgr. Ceferino Gonzalez, resented the community's presence and ordered them out of the diocese".

January 13 St. Hilary of Poitiers (about 315-367) - "...The Arians then persuaded the emperor that Hilary was more of a nuisance to them in exile in Phrygia that he would be back in Gaul, so Constantius sent him home."

January 6 Blessed Joseph Vaz (1651-17110 - "... gained the reputation of being a true sanyasi, a holy ascetic, with people of all religions, but not with the Portuguese ecclesiastical authorities in Goa, who accused him of disloyalty... As a 'native' he was barred from the mainstream religious orders.."

January 31 St. John Bosco (1815-1888) - "... He was regarded as either subversive of the parish and political order or both ..."

Some of their worst enemies were other Christians.

Certainly true. Saints of the past and those to come are saints because they seek above all, always and in all things, the approval of God come what may.

Mrk 8:31 And he began to teach them that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Mrk 8:32 And he said this plainly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
Mrk 8:33 But turning and seeing his disciples, he rebuked Peter, and said, "Get behind me, Satan! For you are not on the side of God, but of men."
Mrk 8:34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
Mrk 8:35 For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it.
Mrk 8:36 For what does it profit a man, to gain the whole world and forfeit his life?
Mrk 8:37 For what can a man give in return for his life?
Mrk 8:38 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of man also be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."