Are Seventh Day Adventists Christian?

[KennySe]

Which would make you a schismatic, and put you in the same boat as us. Lovely, isn't it? Your own belief condems you.

Morph hasn't left the Catholic Church.

 

[Lotar]

So can he stay in the Catholic Church, while rejecting one of it's infallible councles? Would that not at very least be heresy?

 

[MorphRC]

you still haven't answered my question about which festivals and holy days one is required to observe in order to be considered a Christian. Though I may not agree with you, I am still interested in your view on this... so, I'd appreciate an answer.

The sabbath for one..they recognize the jewish shabbat but that is void now.

There theological stances are anything but christian..

Some of the other festivals im not sure bout ill research and get back to ya

 

[MorphRC]

Which would make you a schismatic, and put you in the same boat as us. Lovely, isn't it? Your own belief condems you.

I said i am BECOMING not become..READ WHAT I SAY not what u think i say.

 

[MorphRC]

So can he stay in the Catholic Church, while rejecting one of it's infallible councles? Would that not at very least be heresy?

No Heresy is different..If i did end up becoming a Anti-V2 i would be a schismatic not a heretic.

 

[Lotar]

I said i am BECOMING not become..READ WHAT I SAY not what u think i say.

You stated that VII meant "squat" to you. So you either don't accept it, question it, or accept it; by stating that it is meaningless to you, you are saying that you don't accept it.

Anyways, my point still stands. If you accept VII, then you have to admitt that we are saved. If you don't accept VII, then you are a schismatic and be condemmed by this line of thinking. I find it quite ironic.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Maybe we should move back on the topic of SDA...

 

[OnederWoman]

The sabbath for one..they recognize the jewish shabbat but that is void now.

There theological stances are anything but christian..

Some of the other festivals im not sure bout ill research and get back to ya

no...

I was not asking about the SDA's, as to what they do.... I was wanting to know what you say they DON'T do. I was asking about what festivals and holy days you observe that make you a Christian and that you think anyone else who wants to consider themselves a Christian have to observe.

 

[eldermike]

I have been around SDA folks and their events on a regular basis. I have spent weekends at camps as part of a worship team. They call me "mike the baptist" and allow me to preach or teach. A couple of days away from a double cheeseburger is a price I am willing to pay to do this. They love the Lord, they are open, not threatned by different views IMO. They are healthy people, that speaks highly for what they believe. I will remain a Baptist but I enjoy my time with the SDA.

Eldermike

 

[FreeinChrist]

The SDA are Christians - they believe in the Trinity, in Jesus as the Son of God who died for our sin and was resurrected, and that we are saved by grace through faith.....but, they also place themselves back under the Old Covenant in regards to Sabbath keeping (Friday eve to Sat. eve) , and diet restrictions, and more, and have some other views that I strongly disagree. One, they believe that OT references to Michael the archangel are references to preincarnate Christ. While I believe that the OT references to the Angel (messenger) of God are references to preincarnate Christ, I cannot include Michael in this. Michael is referred to as "one of the chief princes" in Daniel. Jesus was not one of many, but part of the Godhead.

I also strongly disagree with their teaching that in 1844, Jesus began the second phase of atoning work called "Investigative Judgement." The atonement was complete about 2000 years ago. I haven't read convincing support for this teaching of theirs. It looks like something they came up with when the 1844 prediction of the Second Coming didn't pan out (known as the Great Disappointment).

But they do recognize that Christ died for our sin and that it is by grace that we are saved.

 

[KennySe]

The SDA are Christians - they believe in the Trinity, in Jesus as the Son of God who died for our sin and was resurrected, and that we are saved by grace through faith.....but, they also place themselves back under the Old Covenant in regards to Sabbath keeping (Friday eve to Sat. eve) , and diet restrictions, and more, and have some other views that I strongly disagree.

Christians who remain bound by the Old testament law?

One, they believe that OT references to Michael the archangel are references to preincarnate Christ.

Then the Jesus that they preach is another Jesus.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Christians who remain bound by the Old testament law?

I am not SDA, so I can't explain it. They do have much in common with Christianity, but many flaws, IMHO.

Then the Jesus that they preach is another Jesus.

Not exactly. They do not believe that Jesus was an actual angel, but that when Michael is referred to, it is actually Christ. I disagree with them.
While I believe that "the Angel of the Lord" means preincarnate Christ as 'messenger' (not an angelic being), I definitely believe that Michael is a created being, an angel.

 

[Andre]

The 1844 investigative jusdgement theory was born after a failled phrophecy from Ellen White, she had acctually predicted that JEsus would return on that day, He didn't, so she postponned the day for about 6 months, He didn't come back again so they came up with that theory as an excuse for their failled prophecy.

They believe that a person must do certain thing in order to be saved, including keeping the sabbath (an adaptation of the sabbath because they don't keep it as scriptures teach it) they believe a person can loose their salvation if they disrespect the sabbath, they believe a person can loose their salvation based on the sins of that person, it basicly limits they ammount of sin person can have, so none of them are sure of their salvation, they trust in their works. All of them are afraid of not being saved.

They believe that whoever worships on sunday is worshiping the beast, they believe that a person can be made impured by their diet, they don't drink caffeine, tea, and they advise for a vegetarian lifestyle.
Most of those beliefs were introduced by Ellen White.

Don't get me wrong, they do love God and Jesus, they are just misguided and confused. That's why there are son many SDA pastors leaving their church, it get's to a point where you either accept the teaching of Ellen White or the Bible because they contradict.

 

[FreeinChrist]

It was a disenchanted Baptist minister, William Miller, who predicted the Second Coming back in 1843, then postponed it 6 months to 1844, when some figured that he had done some calculations wrong. Many who followed Miller were disenchanted with Miller and the whole event - but there were some who stuck with it. (Miller, himself, slunk away in shame.) They came up with the Investigative Judgment idea. E.G. White did not originate it...but she then passed on other things she "received".

Also from the Millerites came the Jehovah Witnesses.

www.letusreason.org has some interesting articles about this. It is in their 'world religions' section.

 

[Andre]

It was a disenchanted Baptist minister, William Miller, who predicted the Second Coming back in 1843, then postponed it 6 months to 1844, when some figured that he had done some calculations wrong. Many who followed Miller were disenchanted with Miller and the whole event - but there were some who stuck with it. (Miller, himself, slunk away in shame.) They came up with the Investigative Judgment idea. E.G. White did not originate it...but she then passed on other things she "received".

Also from the Millerites came the Jehovah Witnesses.

www.letusreason.org has some interesting articles about this. It is in their 'world religions' section.

I was a bit off then...

So basicly SDA's and Jeohova's witnesses have the same roots but different doctrines?

 

[middo]

Has it occured to anyone, and i mean this in a most respectful way to women, that Ellen White was FEMALE? Now i dont quite know where i stand on the bibles teachings of females in the church(whether they shouldnt have taught in Jesus time but that has now lapsed or whether they still shouldnt) but, isnt there something amiss with the started of SDA's being female? I dont know, just curious, dont even know what im really asking.

Please dont take offense to this, im merely asking

 

[Echoes Peak]

If you go to their home site-they lay out their Creed and Fundamental Beliefs-

adventist.org

That being said, the main thing I find highly strange (after skimming that the site that is) is the whole "Great Disappointment" business. Apparently October 22 was the day Jesus was supposed to return (they some how trace this back to the Bible). I guess they ignored that whole verse about no man knowing the hour when Jesus shall return.

 

[Kim Varner]

Hi everyone,

I've just read over this whole thread over the SDA's and whether they are Christian, and it just makes sigh heavily and say
"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they say." Yes, I'm officially a member of the SDA church, but I don't hold to all of its beliefs. My beliefs lean more toward that of Messianic Judaism.

To simply throw out the whole bunch of grapes because of one or two bad grapes (meaning doctrines) isn't the smartest thing to do. To conclude that SDA's aren't Christian because of one or two non-traditional beliefs. This was the same conclusion the Pharisees drew about Jesus and the early church.

How about attending an SDA church? Has that entered anyone's mind? It's a simple Protestant church service with traditional music. Even some congregations have more contemporary music that is sung in many evangelical churches. My point is, why not find out for yourself whether SDA's are Christians by getting in face to face contact with them.

Granted, there are SDA's who believe that they are the only true Christians, but that's just the flipside of believing that NO SDA is a true Christian. God looks on each individual's heart, not on their church membership.

Is it one's doctrinal beliefs are one's fruits that God judges us by? And please don't tell me that it's one's beliefs that determines their fruit, because that isn't always true. James says, "Do you believe there is one God? Very well. Even the devils believe, and tremble." People can have wrong beliefs and produce the fruit of the spirit, or have the right beliefs, and not produce the fruit of the spirit. That's why I laid that burden down a long time ago and left it up to the Husbandman, my Father in heaven, to judge who is producing the fruit of the spirit, and who is producing poisonous fruit.

Like I said, I don't adhere to all of the SDA church's doctrine (1844 being one of the ones I don't adhere to). I do not regard EGW as an inerrant prophet of God like some SDA's do, but I do regard her as an inspired messenger/reformer, no different from Luther, Calvin, the Wesley brothers. None of these adhered to all Biblical truth, but they did adhere to the truths they were called to "re-reveal" to the ignorant church of their day. To strictly adhere to a manmade creed is unwise, and shall I dare say, narrowminded. That goes for both SDA's and non-SDA's. I don't like the fact that the SDA church has written up a set of 27 Fundamental beliefs when its founders said that to do such a thing would result in apostasy and close-mindedness to the word of God.

I see the Laodicean mindset in both SDA and non-SDA churches. "I'm rich, increased with goods (truth) and have need of nothing." In other words, I'm rich in knowledge of the word of God, increased in doctrine, and have no more need of learning anything from the word of God. I know it all. Everything I believe is truth." No wonder Jesus said He would vomit them out of His mouth. Such an attitude is nauseating.

Jesus calls us (SDA's and non-SDA's) to buy of Him the gold of faith that works by love, so we can be truly rich, the linen of His righteousness to clothe our naked sinfulness, and the eyesalve of (dare I say it) discernment to clearly look at our beliefs and be open to correction from the word of God. Put aside all our pre-conceived interpretations, and read the word straight, without pre-written, pre-spoken commentary. You will be humbled and in awe of the amazing grace and love of our Father in heaven.

May God have mercy on us all.

Kim V.

 

[eldermike]

I know and have personal relationships with several SDA pastors. While most of what is posted here is true, they are not teaching any on it. My take on the SDA is they are in a healing period. The pastors I know preach grace and eternal security and if you didn't know where you were you would think it was a room full of calvinists. They are changing from within, it will take time. They do need to keep the health issues from falling away, the rest of us could learn a lesson from their eating habits. They have the lowest numbers for any goup of people for cancer. Their congergations are full of doctors.



Eldermike

 

[Lotar]

To simply throw out the whole bunch of grapes because of one or two bad grapes (meaning doctrines) isn't the smartest thing to do. To conclude that SDA's aren't Christian because of one or two non-traditional beliefs.

I don't know what they believe, but one or two bad doctrines can be more than enough to change whether they are Christian or not.

I do not regard EGW as an inerrant prophet of God like some SDA's do, but I do regard her as an inspired messenger/reformer, no different from Luther, Calvin, the Wesley brothers. None of these adhered to all Biblical truth, but they did adhere to the truths they were called to "re-reveal" to the ignorant church of their day. To strictly adhere to a manmade creed is unwise, and shall I dare say, narrowminded. That goes for both SDA's and non-SDA's. I don't like the fact that the SDA church has written up a set of 27 Fundamental beliefs when its founders said that to do such a thing would result in apostasy and close-mindedness to the word of God.

First, you believe the reformers were inspired? Luther would be rolling over in his grave.

If the SDA believe that EGW was an inerrant prophet, that sounds a lot like heresy to me.

Jesus calls us (SDA's and non-SDA's) to buy of Him the gold of faith that works by love, so we can be truly rich, the linen of His righteousness to clothe our naked sinfulness, and the eyesalve of (dare I say it) discernment to clearly look at our beliefs and be open to correction from the word of God.

Put aside all our pre-conceived interpretations, and read the word straight, without pre-written, pre-spoken commentary. You will be humbled and in awe of the amazing grace and love of our Father in heaven.

Not that great of an idea. People get all kinds of strange ideas by doing this. The Reformers believed that scripture must be taken above tradition and church history, but never that it should be taken out of the context in which it was written.