Are SDA beliefs based on EGW?

[BobRyan]

To answer that question one needs to look at each belief in detail and determine where it is coming from.

In the 1st chapter of the SDA Fundamental Beliefs on the Word of God, we find that it is based on 207 Bible verses, references to 12 Bible chapters and 8 books in the Bible. vs 4 to EGW (3 pages, and one paragraph), one to Siegfried Horn's book which dealt in part with the DSS and the carefulness with which the Bible was transmitted and one book about Bible interpretation.

The Doctrines as written in the 28 Fundamental beliefs do not appeal to the visions of Ellen White.

But that does not mean that there are not many other teachings found in the Adventist church today (including the health message) that are not based on the messages God gave to Ellen White.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[JohnMarsten]

Matthew 10,28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are NOT able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

It was thought that Peter had been killed by the sword like James....
...Peter is broke out of Jail by an angel and immediately goes to a house of Christian believers.
...These Christians believes Peter's body has been killed but his soul or "angel" is still alive.

Acts 12, 15
And they said unto her, Thou art mad. But she constantly affirmed that it was even so. Then said they, It is his angel.

That, along with the multiple other texts which state that nothing can seperate the believer from God...
...And even includes "death" as something that does not stand in the way.

Let me ask you - are the loved ones in your family, that have passed away now separated from you love JohnMarsten?

I read Scripture that explicitly says this is not the case with God...
...For unto Him ALL LIVE.

Luke 20,37
Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is NOT a God of the dead, but of the living: for ALL live unto him.

The Word There:
1) to live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead)
2) to enjoy real life
a) to have true life and worthy of the name
b) active, blessed, endless in the kingdom of God

Hebrews 12,18
For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Well, of course, when the body dies, the soul is still alive... otherwise how can it wait to be resurrected if it is no longer there... I was talking about the total immortality of the soul... in which regard both the NT and the OT say that the soul may die...
[/quote]
I'm not 100% sure on this but doesn't SDA teaching require that there is a literal Temple in heaven....
...Also literal angels and that God is literally there as well?

Well, that text places the literal spirits of "just men" WHO have been made perfect.....
...At a literal assembly - in heaven.
...& Paul uses this fact to hammer home the point of just what Christians have in Christ.
[/quote]
yes, its supposed to be literal...


[/quote]
This is something we can chat about in an area other than here...
...I would be happy to do it.
[/quote]

no need to hurry... but you could at least show that celibacy wasnt meant to be there from the beginning of the church...

[/quote]
It's not mentioned in the Bible and in all my years I've never witnessed Mary worship in the Catholic Church...
...Perhaps you have something to show me?
[/quote]

I am no expert on catholicism, but isnt true that people pray to Mary (not only but also to other saints...) so once you start praying to somebody I guess this is where the worship starts... anyway, nowhere in the bible will you find a text that will support the idea of Mary being in heaven... same goes for the saints...

[/quote]
It's not the object the person is praying to.....
...No different than when an SDA pastor holds the Bible up and prays.
[/quote]
well, one could definitely argue about that one... besides the pastor does not pray to the bible...

[/quote]
Seriously, cite something for me....
...I've heard this charge numerous times - so far nothing can be produced.
[/quote]

like I said I am no expert on catholicism... BUT!!! as you are from the states, then I guess that catholicism has always been quite different there in regard to laws and religious freedom... not so in Europe... of course I am not able to produce any supporting documents but things werent that easy for the casual worshippers in Europe...

[/quote]
They are found in the actual Liturgy, the lives of the Saints and in the everyday people...
...The gift of the Holy Spirit is also proved in the Bible you read everyday given that the Church produced it.
....It doesn't take a person falling on the floor, eyes rolled back.
....And claiming to have visited alien hominids on another planet in another solar system.
...To be worthy of cosideration of having gifts of the Holy Spirit.
[/quote]
you shouldnt have taken the aliens as an example... besides SDAizm wasnt the point in my post


[/quote]
Only in size John - there has always been people within the Church that failed to live up to what they knew.....
....This has been demonstrated on a smaller scale within your own church.
....Now, multiply your own Church and along with it the people who fail to live up to the teachings.
[/quote]

I must agree with you here Pythons. I thought about this theory as well...
People do make mistakes, in all churches, so one might easily tend to assume that the papacy or the RC in general has been taken over by some corrupt people and stuff... yeah, the only thing is that they have commited those mistakes on and on... and nobody dared to correct them... take the celibacy thing for example...

[/quote]
Which later Christians were killed by Rome?
...Would it be the ones the SDA church admited were heretics?[/quote]
[/quote]
good questions... I guess it all depends on how you label those who were killed... heretics, witches or christians...

 

[JohnMarsten]

ah, and just one more little thing...

when you think about the words of the Lord, and that we should be born anew from water and Spirit in order to receive the Kingdom of Heaven...

How is this idea manifested in the RC? I mean childrens baptism (I know the concept behind it) but isnt it weird? I guess you know what I mean...

 

[Pythons]

Well, of course, when the body dies, the soul is still alive... otherwise how can it wait to be resurrected if it is no longer there... I was talking about the total immortality of the soul... in which regard both the NT and the OT say that the soul may die...

Ok, then we have established the principle that upon death a saved person's soul is "with God"....
...And the angels in heaven at a general assembly of those in heaven.
...And that they are not separated from God like your family still alive is not separated from your love here & now.

True, if God wanted to annihilate ( make something as if it never was to begin with ) something....
...God could, after all God is God and God only hath true or unconditional immortality.
...Perhaps I didn't understand what you said John - I assumed you believed at death the soul was unaware of anything.
...As in separated like your Grandpa or other loved one is separated from you after they die.

no need to hurry... but you could at least show that celibacy wasnt meant to be there from the beginning of the church...

Both positions are valid in my view...

I am no expert on catholicism, but isnt true that people pray to Mary (not only but also to other saints...) so once you start praying to somebody I guess this is where the worship starts... anyway, nowhere in the bible will you find a text that will support the idea of Mary being in heaven... same goes for the saints...

It's the same as you asking someone to pray to God on your behalf on some matter....
...If you pray to God that help be sent to someone other than yourself.
...You are interceding & your doing so isn't taking the place of God at all.
...It's simply an affirmation that you are part of the Family of God.
...I.E. communion of Saints.

when you think about the words of the Lord, and that we should be born anew from water and Spirit in order to receive the Kingdom of Heaven...

How is this idea manifested in the RC? I mean childrens baptism (I know the concept behind it) but isnt it weird? I guess you know what I mean...

Baptism replaced circumcision according to the Scriptures...
...An individuals understanding of how or why Baptism was needed was never an issue.
...It simply had to take place.

Remember the story of the man who was very sick in the Old Testament and it was revealed to him....
...That he must bath a certain way in a certain river to be healed?

Well, he didn't understand it but went through it anyway....
...And it worked.

Scripture tells us that we are to bring up a child in the way it should go.....
...Therefore when you read in Scripture that if the man or head of household got himself cut.
...EVERY male under his charge got themselves cut - many would have been a year old or less.
...It's the same with Baptism.

 

[cesty]

Cesty, I made it to 12:35 on the video when it said.....
...Christian researcher "Dave Hunt".
...Just how much do you respect this mans scholarship?
...When his scholarship demonstrates SDAism is a heretical group?

Do you accept that Dave Hunt really knows how to gather information and do research.....
...Or do you just accept what he says about the Catholic Church & maintain Hunt's research wasn't any good.
....When he says what he does about SDAism?

I accept what the video discloses, as it is historical fact. As far as what Dave Hunt has to say about SDA theology, that means little to me, because I go to the Bible for my theology. My beliefs are not based on the opinions of men, or the dictates of a pope.

 

[Pythons]

I accept what the video discloses, as it is historical fact. As far as what Dave Hunt has to say about SDA theology, that means little to me, because I go to the Bible for my theology. My beliefs are not based on the opinions of men, or the dictates of a pope.

You do realize that Dave Hunt appeals to history when he discusses Seventh-day Adventism, right?
...One cannot discuss SDAism without bringing history into it.
...I'm wondering why you believe Hunt's history of Catholicism is accurate.
...And at the same time Hunt's history of Adventism is invalid?

That is my question.

 

[cesty]

You do realize that Dave Hunt appeals to history when he discusses Seventh-day Adventism, right?
...One cannot discuss SDAism without bringing history into it.
...I'm wondering why you believe Hunt's history of Catholicism is accurate.
...And at the same time Hunt's history of Adventism is invalid?

That is my question.

Watch the video.

 

[Pythons]

Watch the video.

I've already pulled Dave Hunt's affirmations on Catholicism apart - in fact I did that back several years ago...
...Have you taken the time to explore what he believes about SDAism?
...Or do you just use anyone who posts negative stuff about the Catholic Church.
...And ignore what the same person says about your own.

 

[cesty]

I've already pulled Dave Hunt's affirmations on Catholicism apart - in fact I did that back several years ago...
...Have you taken the time to explore what he believes about SDAism?
...Or do you just use anyone who posts negative stuff about the Catholic Church.
...And ignore what the same person says about your own.

Watch the video.

 

[Pythons]

Watch the video.

Here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=pwWHGJjYBBc

 

[cesty]

Here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=pwWHGJjYBBc

Have you watched the video yet?

 

[Stryder06]

When & where did the Catholic Church slaughter people for reading the Bible for themselves?
...Also when did the Catholic Church lay anathema on people assembling on Saturday?




When did these things happen Stryder? I would really like to know about this.

It hurts that you try to play the ignorance card whenever this topic is brought up. As much research as you do into the Adventist church, you should probably do the same amount into your own...

 

[JohnMarsten]

It hurts that you try to play the ignorance card whenever this topic is brought up. As much research as you do into the Adventist church, you should probably do the same amount into your own...

Doing research aint a bad thing at all...

but since you brought up the topic why dont you present the evidence to him...

 

[Stryder06]

Doing research aint a bad thing at all...

but since you brought up the topic why dont you present the evidence to him...

Because it's been presented to him already. This topic has been discussed already, yet Python's seems to get amnesia in regards to his churches past. He knows full well that the church he belongs to, has done what I've stated here, and more.

 

[Pythons]

The primary issue with this is that a false history is presented in most cases.....
...That is what is sold and re-sold to the masses.
...There is plently of information on how this works over at Catholic Answers.

 

[Stryder06]

The primary issue with this is that a false history is presented in most cases.....
...That is what is sold and re-sold to the masses.
...There is plently of information on how this works over at Catholic Answers.

Funny how only the things your church wants people to forget about are labeled as "false history".

There is so much more wrong with the RCC that the butchering of "rebels" barely scratches the surface. You take issue with EGW, and yet your pontiff is essentially portrayed as God on earth, and yet everyone is ok with that? He has power to forgive sins as if our sins offended him, and again, everyone is ok with that. Your church teaches cannibalism and keeps Christ dead, but because they call it a "mystery", suddenly its ok?

And you want to talk about what's "wrong" with EGW?

 

[asiyreh]

If you thought Hitler was bad you haven't checked out Stalin, if you thought Stalin was bad you should check out Chairman Mao, if you thought Mao was bad you should check out the Beast aka the RCC.

Liars, thieves, pedophiles,
Gollum says Murderer - YouTube
Annntttiii - Christs!!!

Give us a rough estimate Python how many peps do you think they murdered just in the inquisition alone?
50 million give or take, but what odds they were only heretics anyway.

The Resurrection of Brendan Smyth - YouTube

 

[JohnMarsten]

If you thought Hitler was bad you haven't checked out Stalin, if you thought Stalin was bad you should check out Chairman Mao, if you thought Mao was bad you should check out the Beast aka the RCC.

Liars, thieves, pedophiles,
Gollum says Murderer - YouTube
Annntttiii - Christs!!!

Give us a rough estimate Python how many peps do you think they murdered just in the inquisition alone?
50 million give or take, but what odds they were only heretics anyway.

The Resurrection of Brendan Smyth - YouTube

yep! these pictures tell more than words!

To me, he looks like a gremlin or something and with this hand sign he could have starred in one of the horror flics!