As much as I have my restrictions against SDAizm (esp. egw) I have to admit that Stryders points are quite valid...
I am thinking here about several points that are violated by the RC
- they claim the soul never dies
-- the bible says we should we fear the ONE who can kill body and soul in hell (definitely not the devil)
Matthew 10,28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are NOT able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
It was thought that Peter had been killed by the sword like James....
...Peter is broke out of Jail by an angel and immediately goes to a house of Christian believers.
...These Christians believes Peter's body has been killed but his soul or "angel" is still alive.
Acts 12, 15
And they said unto her, Thou art mad. But she constantly affirmed that it was even so. Then said they, It is his angel.
That, along with the multiple other texts which state that nothing can seperate the believer from God...
...And even includes "death" as something that does not stand in the way.
Let me ask you - are the loved ones in your family, that have passed away
now separated from you love JohnMarsten?
I read Scripture that explicitly says this is not the case with God...
...For unto Him
ALL LIVE.
Luke 20,37
Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is NOT a God of the dead, but of the living: for ALL live unto him.
The Word There:
1) to live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead)
2) to enjoy real life
a) to have true life and worthy of the name
b) active, blessed, endless in the kingdom of God
Hebrews 12,18
For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
I'm not 100% sure on this but doesn't SDA teaching require that there is a literal Temple in heaven....
...Also literal angels and that God is literally there as well?
Well, that text places the literal spirits of "just men" WHO have been made perfect.....
...At a literal assembly - in heaven.
...& Paul uses this fact to hammer home the point of just what Christians have in Christ.
John said:
- the bishop must be the husband of one wife
-- I know that celibacy was introduced because of financial reasons (if the priests children wouldnt want to become priest themselves then they would inherit their fathers estates and the church would be at a loss)
This is something we can chat about in an area other than here...
...I would be happy to do it.
John said:
- mary worship was never mentioned in the bible
It's not mentioned in the Bible and in all my years I've never witnessed Mary worship in the Catholic Church...
...Perhaps you have something to show me?
John said:
- praying to wooden objects might be symbolic in nature but the Lord had already declared in the OT that this, well, you know it...
It's not the object the person is praying to.....
...No different than when an SDA pastor holds the Bible up and prays.
John said:
- and yes, bible reading was quite forbidden for most of the time...
-- indeed, as you may rightly suppose, the bible wasnt even available for most of the ages, and the church didnt do anything to bring out a translation for the casual reader... it took a whole reformation to get cracking...
Seriously, cite something for me....
...I've heard this charge numerous times - so far nothing can be produced.
John said:
- although the same applies to the SDA I must say that RC church services are quite scripted, there is not too much room for the involvement of the church goers... so where are those gifts of the Holy Spirit? are they gone forever?
They are found in the actual Liturgy, the lives of the Saints and in the everyday people...
...The gift of the Holy Spirit is also proved in the Bible you read everyday given that the Church produced it.
....It doesn't take a person falling on the floor, eyes rolled back.
....And claiming to have visited alien hominids on another planet in another solar system.
...To be worthy of cosideration of having gifts of the Holy Spirit.
John said:
- oh yes, the church was quite filthy at times (think about the crusades, the conquest of the new earth, etc.) dont you think that the papal system has laid the foundation for mass murder? and a lot of other not quite Christlike things...
- in the end even you will know that the RC is quite different from the church depicted in the NT.
Only in size John - there has always been people within the Church that failed to live up to what they knew.....
....This has been demonstrated on a smaller scale within your own church.
....Now, multiply your own Church and along with it the people who fail to live up to the teachings.
John said:
- Christ said, he who is without sin shall throw the first stone... The RC was never known to be like that but rather quite sadistic in nature when you think about the inquisition... its like the early christians were persecuted and killed, by ROME... and later christians were persecuted and killed by ROME (RC)... see the correlation?
- there would be more things I guess, but I havent really been interested in the RC lately...
Which later Christians were killed by Rome?
...Would it be the ones the SDA church admited were heretics?
