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Yes Jesus addressed (and condemned) the religious ruling class of the time for putting their traditions before God's commands (Moses and the Prophets).I'll post Jesus honoring a Big 'T' tradition and denouncing the little 't' traditions. Can't put the little 't' before the big 't'
I know what Ignatius wrote in his Epistle to the Smyrnaeans I’ve read it sir. I’ve also mentioned to you earlier this week that Iranaeus specifically stated
When, however, they are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorantof tradition. For [they allege] that the truth was not delivered by means of written documents, but vivâ voce. Adversus Haereses Book3 Chapter2 1st sentence
The source of Godly knowledge is the Holy Spirit. It is not confined exclusively to the Catholic Church. Please understand it is not my intention to discredit the Roman Church. I believe salvation can be found both in and out of the RCC but no church is beyond error.
And I have pointed out you are taking a single paragraph WAY out of context
For the first time ever read book III COMPLETELY and I urge others to do so.
You totally misrepresent it.
Iranaus clearly states that the tradition and authority to interpret doctrine lie at the church at rome
And that gnostics disgregard scripture and tradition. You quote just one part of the latter statement so misrepresent iraneus meaning.
We hold both in high regard and accpet early church teaching on the eucharist/
Sadly lost in most reformation churches.
I started this thread as a spin off thread from another thread i have going. As i was discussing the Lords supper, I was told by Catholics that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper. If this is true then doesnt that mean that protestants are dead, according to John 6:53?
John 6:53 New King James Version (NKJV)
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
If there ever once was, why?no church is beyond error.
Christ was speaking of spiritual things. The Communion is a spiritual event. The dogma of Transmutation is necessary for Catholics, but how many actually believe that when the priest lifts up the bread and wine it literally becomes the flesh and blood of Christ? It is a spiritual event—not a physical one. Flesh represents death while spirit represents life. The Holy Spirit is Eternal life.I started this thread as a spin off thread from another thread i have going. As i was discussing the Lords supper, I was told by Catholics that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper. If this is true then doesnt that mean that protestants are dead, according to John 6:53?
John 6:53 New King James Version (NKJV)
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
If there ever once was, why?
If there ever was a community that held to a faith established without error, everything they believe is true, why was it established in truth without error?I don’t understand your question can you rephrase it please?
Relying upon mental-emotional interpretations of scripture is a disaster. It is, must be, "interpretation and application" as revealed by the Holy Spirit. All else results in millions of books, commentaries, TV "evangelism," and more. Interpretation & Application is based upon listening to the Holy Spirit, nothing more, nothing less.If there ever once was, why?
but Christs flesh is life.Christ was speaking of spiritual things. The Communion is a spiritual event. The dogma of Transmutation is necessary for Catholics, but how many actually believe that when the priest lifts up the bread and wine it literally becomes the flesh and blood of Christ? It is a spiritual event—not a physical one. Flesh represents death while spirit represents life. The Holy Spirit is Eternal life.
If there ever was a community that held to a faith established without error, everything they believe is true, why was it established in truth without error?
Mmm, I see what you mean. So if I’ve got this right, when I said in an earlier post that some Protestants (such as Lutherans and some Anglicans) do believe in the Real Presence, you’re saying I had a fair point? Golly...
Relying upon mental-emotional interpretations of scripture is a disaster. It is, must be, "interpretation and application" as revealed by the Holy Spirit. All else results in millions of books, commentaries, TV "evangelism," and more. Interpretation & Application is based upon listening to the Holy Spirit, nothing more, nothing less.
So you believe the bread and wine becomes the flesh and blood of Christ, physically? Could it be proven histologically?but Christs flesh is life.
I started this thread as a spin off thread from another thread i have going. As i was discussing the Lords supper, I was told by Catholics that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper. If this is true then doesnt that mean that protestants are dead, according to John 6:53?
John 6:53 New King James Version (NKJV)
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
”Real Presence” is spelled differently from “the Eucharist” for a reason.You first post in this thread (the one to which I was replying) said "To be fair, what I, at least, said was that Protestants don't partake of the Eucharist. Catholics know that, most Protestants know that and so there shouldn't be a problem there. The commemoration of the Lord's Supper which many Protestants observe is fine in its place, however."
Apparently I missed your later post where you corrected yourself.
”Real Presence” is spelled differently from “the Eucharist” for a reason. Protestants don’t partake of the Eucharist. That simple fact notwithstanding, some of them still believe in the Real Presence.
Don WatsonPeople usually believe their mental and emotional interpretation is from the Holy Spirit. It’s extremely hard to determine sometimes.
W2L, The Definition of the word Assuredly: used to express the speaker's certainty that something is true. To make it more of an impact the Lord uses the word MOST, in front of Assuredly, to make it a DOUBLE WHAMMY! LOL
Using your New kings James version, If I were to tell you W2L, "Most Assuredly" if you jump of the Empire State Building, head first you will have no more life in you. What do you think would happen to you? Do you think after the fall, you will rise up and shake off the dust off your clothes and go eat a Big Mac. With the Lord all things are possible, but not after the Lord WARNS US with the words "Most Assuredly!!!"
There are many good protestants who attend church every Sunday and no one has truly taught them John 6:53 that when the Lord uses the Word "Most Assuredly" Jesus Christ, literally means LIFE OR DEATH!!! So they are invincibly ignorant re: John 6:53 Jesus Christ knows these good protestants.
However, when a protestant has been told this truth, lets say like here at Christianforums, and then chooses not to accept the Words of the Lord, "Most Assuredly" then that person will have no life in them because they choose not to believe in His Words. Thus why in Scripture we read, not all who say Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but only those who do the WILL of the Father. The Will of the Father is one and the same as the Lord, and that is, that we must Eat and Drink His Flesh and Blood. Yes, all protestants today strove among themselves saying: "How can this Man give us His Flesh to Eat". W2L, does these word sound familiar to you in your mind?
Yes, true the Lord did not go after those who left Him re: John 6:53, Jesus Christ Left His Catholic Church to go after them, thus why I am here.
W2L, Most Assuredly, the Holy Spirit wether you know it or not, is working in you because of this your thread, and that is to become Catholic! Oh my what a dreadful thing Just said, to you, for you to become Catholic, well then again, it is the Only Church That LIVES OUT John 6:53 in the The Most Holy Eucharist!
W2L, Many if not all Ex Protestants have entered the Catholic Church because of John 6:53 And Most Assuredly these Ex Protestants make the best Catholics.
Yes, the Lord here in John 6:53 is using what we cannot use here and that is FEAR MONGERING!
Fear Mongering is a good thing, when it comes form the Lord and His Church, re: John 6:53
PanDeVida, aka BreadOfLife
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