Are professed Christians who deliberately practice sin saved?

Alexpro · Jan 28, 2018

listed said:
How did buggy twist Luke 24:44?

I was referring to this scripture.

Mathew 5:18
19 Whosoever therefore
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listed said:
How did buggy twist Luke 24:44?

I'm not going to get into these kind of debated and discutions it just brings negative energy I don't want to be fighting people about scripture. Jesus is the new covenant. if you want to celebrate Passover that's up to you. If you want to ride on a donkey in Israel. That's cool to. Lol..
Here is a good scripture I wanted to share yesterday.
Matthew 6:19-20
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Alexpro · Jan 28, 2018

SBC said:
Yes Jesus was sent to the Jews.
From the beginning, the Hebrews/Jews were chosen to be the teachers, as a benefit for all of mankind.

Many Jews became LOST to the teachings of their forefathers.
Many Jews, even their teachers became corrupt.

Jesus came to reaffirm what their forefathers had taught, (fulfill what their forefathers had been taught) AND, to reveal things that had been kept secret from their forefathers.

The disciples were chosen to carry on Jesus' teachings to the Jews.

Paul was chosen to carry on Jesus' teachings to the Gentiles.

Both the disciples, and Paul, all Apostles taught to mixed crowds, in cities of mixed, Jews and Gentiles; and the teachings to the crowds addressed;
Jews who had a HISTORY with God...
....and a Looooong list of Laws.
Gentiles who DID NOT have a HISTORY with God...
.....nor a Loooooog list of Laws.

Jews AND Gentiles were both being taught, something new, beyond the confinement of the LAW.

A NEW, ONE TIME BLOOD, sufficient for the forgiveness of ALL of the World, who trust to believe it is TRUE, and accept the gift of Jesus' BLOOD, for forgiveness, ONCE and FOREVER.

Some did, some didn't. Some can, some can't. Some do, yet continue to adhere to their Laws. Some do, yet were never under the Law.

Many Christians, claim belief and submission, while also adopting, Jewish Laws, as their guideline.....Excellent. Their teaching of behavior that Glorifies God, benefits all.

However a Christian adopting, what is NOT beneficial to Glorifiying God, being called a SIN, is false. It is a SIN, unto a Jew, according to their Law. it is NOT a SIN, unto a Gentile Christian, who was never subject to Jewish Law.

A Gentile Christian WHO learns from the Jews, what DOES Glorify God, and does such things....Scripture teaches they shall be rewarded for their efforts.

A Gentile Christian WHO learns from the Jews, what DOES NOT Glorify God, and does such things....Scripture teaches he shall "lose" or otherwise forego "receiving" rewards, from God.

While Jesus provided NEW Knowledge to the World... The NEW knowledge, is not dependent upon Him to BELIEVE it is TRUE, (that's already established)...but is dependent upon IF individuals BELIEVE it is TRUE.

God Bless,
SBC

I agree the old law is done away with. Jesus is the New covenant.

Alexpro · Jan 28, 2018

JIMINZ said:
.
Ignorance is not believing what you read in the Bible.

Mat. 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of

JIMINZ said:
.
Ignorance is not believing what you read in the Bible.

Mat. 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I'm not going to get into these debates. That's why I don't go into the debate threads. Christians like to debate all day about words in the bible. I rather leave it alone.

A lot of these people have religious spirits. I'm not going to be part of that. They go by the word and not lead by the spirit of God.

Those are the craziest and most dangerous people I ever met. People with religion spirits and most of them are not even filled with the Holy spirit.

I personally had friends like that. We would argue about scripture all day. That's why I stay away from that.

Old Trapper · Jan 28, 2018

Grip Docility said:
Oh my... the Law has a purpose. If you read all of my posts on this thread... I address it.

Jesus “Fulfilled” the Law. Hint

1 John 2:2

2nd hint

“Canceling allthe charges”

3rd hint

I'm sorry. I thought that when Jesus said the the Law would not pass until ALL things, including the Prophets (prophecies), were fulfilled, or when Paul taught in Romans 7: 5-7

"For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Now, I don't read every post mad ein here just the ones related to myself. However, it would appear that you are mocking me (which is something you do not want to do), so tell me "master", just how did Christ fulfilling the Law destroy the law?

Oh yes, as to your "2nd. hint" can you show me where I even suggested that we were not free from the Law, or is it your claim that we no longer have to obey the Law? And if the Law was destroyed then just what is it we are compelled to follow?

Old Trapper · Jan 28, 2018

SBC said:
Did Jesus say, He came to DIVIDE?

God Bless,
SBC

In fact He did. He said He would set father against son, mother against daughter, etc.

Luke 12: 51-53

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

Old Trapper · Jan 28, 2018

Choir Loft said:
PS
If one flees the church, where then shall he go in a spiritual desert? Do as the Hebrews once did. Seek God and receive His holy Law once again. Do not be afraid to seek God's people and do not turn your back upon them. You will find Jesus among them.

Why would you be in a "spiritual desert"? Is not the Holy Spirit there with you?

Just saying:

The Drift Of The Times

JIMINZ · Jan 28, 2018

Old Trapper said:
In fact He did. He said He would set father against son, mother against daughter, etc.

.
That's just misunderstanding Scripture, and taking it out of the context it was in.

Devin P · Jan 29, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
What was done away was the powerless way we kept the law. There was always sin to deal with. So through Christ and the POWER of the Holy Spirit we died to SIN, so as to be able to keep the law of the Spirit, which does not break God's moral laws. Our nature changed to want to be righteous, not to do lawlessness. Anyone who still obeys the old nature, hasn't received the new one.

So the old nature was that which kept the law?

Did you keep Torah before you were saved?

The spirit of God will change you, it will cause you to desire to obey Him, His commands, His decrees and His laws.

You died to the desires of the flesh, meaning you're free from wanting to be without the law. God's law is a lamp to our feet, a blessing in our lives and a light to the world, not something we should want to get away from, but to uphold.

Otherwise there's so many verses about how when Jesus comes back we will again be keeping and teaching the law. It's written when Jesus returns and we're reigning on earth with Him that lands that don't keep Sukkoth will receive no rain. How can we keep Sukkoth (a feast written and given to us by God in the law) of that's a spirit we're supposed to be free from?

Obedience to God isn't something we should aim to be free from.

JIMINZ · Jan 29, 2018

Devin P said:
So the old nature was that which kept the law?

Did you keep Torah before you were saved?

The spirit of God will change you, it will cause you to desire to obey Him, His commands, His decrees and His laws.

You died to the desires of the flesh, meaning you're free from wanting to be without the law. God's law is a lamp to our feet, a blessing in our lives and a light to the world, not something we should want to get away from, but to uphold.

Otherwise there's so many verses about how when Jesus comes back we will again be keeping and teaching the law. It's written when Jesus returns and we're reigning on earth with Him that lands that don't keep Sukkoth will receive no rain. How can we keep Sukkoth (a feast written and given to us by God in the law) of that's a spirit we're supposed to be free from?

Obedience to God isn't something we should aim to be free from.

.
Rom. 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Gal. 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Are you Dead to the Law?

1stcenturylady · Jan 29, 2018

Devin P said:
So the old nature was that which kept the law?

Did you keep Torah before you were saved?

The spirit of God will change you, it will cause you to desire to obey Him, His commands, His decrees and His laws.

You died to the desires of the flesh, meaning you're free from wanting to be without the law. God's law is a lamp to our feet, a blessing in our lives and a light to the world, not something we should want to get away from, but to uphold.

Otherwise there's so many verses about how when Jesus comes back we will again be keeping and teaching the law. It's written when Jesus returns and we're reigning on earth with Him that lands that don't keep Sukkoth will receive no rain. How can we keep Sukkoth (a feast written and given to us by God in the law) of that's a spirit we're supposed to be free from?

Obedience to God isn't something we should aim to be free from.

It is always best if you are going to quote scripture to add the text so we can look it up.

By the way, the old nature couldn't keep the law; that is why we were given a new nature. We establish the law through love.

SBC · Jan 29, 2018

Old Trapper said:
Not to God, and you don't matter.

No problem - go have your general conversation with God, instead of people, who must guess what you mean, since you cannot express yourself with a clear understanding.

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Jan 29, 2018

fhansen said:
Yes. "Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14

Guess its not a done deal after all.

Click to expand...

A mans "guessing" is an excellent indication, why Trusting the Word of God is paramount.

And I'd rather go by the whole context of Scripture along with the opinion of the historical Church instead of one man's personal opinion based on a verse or two.

Click to expand...

The whole context of Scripture?

It would be wise IF, you knew the difference between ....

Cannot Sin.
And
Make every effort to live in peace.

It would be wise IF, you knew the difference between ....

A written scripture
And
An opinion

It would be wise IF, it were not EASY for you to dismiss a verse or two.

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Jan 29, 2018

Old Trapper said:
In fact He did. He said He would set father against son, mother against daughter, etc.

Luke 12: 51-53

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

Yes. Jesus came to DIVIDE.

Have you any clue, what is the ONE FACT, that DIVIDES the people?

God Bless,
SBC

Lily of Valleys · Jan 29, 2018

Alexpro said:
Mathew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Exodus 20:8
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus 12:14
And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Exodus 12:17
And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

Exodus 12:24
And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

Exodus 31:17
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed

I did research and found out it was a miss interpretation by urly Hebrew scholars forever in Hebrew means a generation or a time period. I could be wrong. I will do more research on the subject.

I think your right it's an ordinance that should be kept thought a generation for ever. but some people will argue and say you must keep the Sabbath God said its forever.

Thanks to the Holy Spirit he Guided me through that. A lot of people will argue with you about the law.

I personally use to keep the Sabbath I think it's good for you. I felt more protected and more closer to God.

The Law is our tutor to lead us to Christ. Under the new covenant, we have the Holy Spirit within us to remind us to follow God's commandments:

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:26 NASB)

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. (Ezekiel 36:26 NASB)

There is nothing wrong with eating or not eating meat, keeping or not keeping the sabbath, as long as you do so according to faith:

One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. (Romans 14:5-6 NASB)

I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. (Romans 14:14-15 NASB)

Lily of Valleys · Jan 29, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello Lily of Valleys.

We are not talking about one or two obvious sins, rather, we are talking about the battery of sin that clouds our lives.

For example, gluttony, selfishness, loving the world, not forgiving others, e.t.c.

Gluttony is eating the wrong foods, and in such volume, fats, sugars, fast foods.

Selfishness is the opposite of love, this afflicts most Christians.

Loving the things of the world includes sport, fashion, real estate, e.t.c.

It is the shear repetition of the sin in all it's sinful forms, that has shocked me the most.

So where do we start if we are seriously going to stamp out sin?

Hello again klutedavid.

I would start with the sin that the Holy Spirit reveals to me the most, that gives the devil a foothold the most, that drags down my spiritual health the most.

listed · Jan 29, 2018

SBC said:
To whom you are speaking.
You may believe you live in a Christian Nation, and to simply say Believer, means, Belief in Christ the Lord Jesus...
Belief in God....

How could the word believer mean anything else on a Christian site? Aren't we discussing Christianity here?

But then, perhaps it means, belief in Jesus, but not yet committed, or belief in Jesus in their mind, but not their heart, or belief in Allah, or Buddah.....less everyone is a mind reader.

There are plenty people ascribing to a religious system when it comes to personal conduct on most things. Those religious people are those expressing out right hate here. They even attack Christianity.

No it doesn't.

It asks two questions.
Then it tells you when a babe is weened, he can begin learning little by little.
Men begin learing by hearing, reading, (if a man in Isaiah's day could read), bit, by bit.

Correct.

Nonsense. First of all the term Christian is as general and misunderstood as the using the term "believer".

No the word is abused and misapplied by religious people. Going to church or subscribing to Christian principals in general doesn't make one a Christian.

Anyone following the Word of God, whether saved or not is called a Christian.
Anyone following their own Religious beliefs, is called a believer.

Both terms are misapplied here if indeed we're discussing Christianity and not people.

Only God provides KNOWLEDGE to mankind, in a WAY they can relate to the KNOWLEDGE.

Only God provides "HIS" Understading to "HIS" own Knowledge.

Scripture gives VERY LITTLE understanding of the KNOWLEDGE so written.

One of the GREATEST GIFTS from God is receiving Gods Understanding of His own Knowledge, His own Word!

And ONLY GOD Himself gives that gift of His Understanding, to INDIVIDUALS who are committed unto Him, in FULL-faithfulness, and MADE WHOLE by His Power, via the Holy Spirit.

Job 32:8
2 Tim 2:7
Luke 24:45

No. I did not say a Christian could not sin.

Who is the person sitting next to you in Church, week after week, hearing and believing the Word of God? A Christian?

Chances are very good they are nothing more than someone trying to impress others you're polite to and with. There are a few Christians in church.

Who is this same person, you see going forward to the alter to confess His SINS to the Lord? A Christian?

Chances are very good they may be nothing more than an eve dropping gossip.

Do you recognize what you are witnessing?
But yet you call this person the same thing?

Very good questions.

Christians CAN SIN. WHOSEVER is born of God, (whatever they call themselves) CANNOT SIN.

Why do we have: 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John is talking to Christians.

You do not distinguish a Christian from a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.

I do. Sadly this has become necessary in my world, even here.

Christians CAN SIN. Born again Christians CANNOT SIN.

This is a very bad misunderstanding of Scripture.

If you want to understand what I say, pay attention to the words I use and don't change them to your words.

And? WHERE DID I SAY OTHERWISE?
I never said a man is without sin.
Pay attention to what I say, not what you say for me.

I have said, all of menkind are born in sin.
Is that saying men are without sin?

I have said, all of mankind have committed sin.
Is that saying mankind is without sin?

I have said, some men are FORGIVEN their sin.
Is that saying some men are without sin?

I have said, God covers their Forgiven sin.
Is that saying men are without sin?

Do you desire to LOOK UNDER THE COVER and SEE a mans sin? God doesn't. He remember their sin no more.

Do you know SIN is DARKNESS?
Do you know WHAT God COVERS a man forgiven sin WITH?
It is HIS LIGHT.
Did you know LIGHT overcomes DARKNESS, that the DARKNESS can be seen no more?

Did you know the LIGHT/Power/Spirit of God REMAINS in a man born of God, and that man is KEPT from "AGAIN" sinning?

Don't you TRUST the LIGHT, POWER, SPIRIT of GOD IN YOU, TO KEEP YOU FROM SINNING?

Review what you are CALLING YOUR SIN.
IS IT behavior between men?
That is not sin, nor can men forgive you of sin...BUT you are taught to men are to forgive trespass between men.

OR IS IT you AGAIN disbelieving in God, corrupting your soul AGAIN? Because that would be a SIN AGAINST GOD....and His power in you, failed you.....if you continue those sins against Him.

Accept what Scripture teaches THAT APPLIES TO YOU.

The confession of one man to another for a trespass, is the trespassor fessing up, taking truthful responsibility, AND accountability for damages, and hope to receive forgiveness.

Jews are taught to do the same thing, but according to their LAW, the trespass is a SIN, and called a SIN. Are you under Jewish Law?

Do you read in scripture, of two Jews conversing, and one claiming the other has SINNED against a man?

Why do you presume you are subject to their Law, saying you have committed sin, as they do, under their Law?

Does Scripture teach you Belief, in in the Jewish Messiah, places you UNDER Jewish law?

No!

listed · Jan 29, 2018

jmldn2 said:
The problem is that as long as we live on this earth we are in that "body of flesh" and it continually will war against our spirit. And yes Paul also says "the things I should do i don, and the things I shouldn't do I do." paraphrased. Paul understood that while we seek perfection, we will never achieve it

Yes and I identify with Paul's statement in Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What is and remains sold to sin for the Christian? It's the body which has received its irrevocable sentence of death. Only the soul is redeemed. It isn't our physical bodies resurrected.

listed · Jan 29, 2018

fhansen said:
I think a main point is that we should refrain from concluding that perfection isn't to be sought after at all. We shouldn't tire of seeking it in fact. Some, Christians and non-believers alike, give up on the cause if they ever took it up to begin with at some point in time, with the Christians in this case having determined that it's pointless -and opposed to the gospel.

Perfection or appealing to and pleasing others?

Old Trapper · Jan 29, 2018

JIMINZ said:
.
That's just misunderstanding Scripture, and taking it out of the context it was in.

OK. So, the translators got it wrong. Now, how do we then say that the scripture is inerrant, and inspired by God?

listed · Jan 29, 2018

JIMINZ said:
.
Just a question for clarification, why are we not in the Flesh, what exactly is the Flesh to you?

That's a tough question. I can say it's the physical body that runs away with emotions and desires at times. Sometimes I find I've got no control over it. I can also say it is the natural mind which runs that body to a large extent. If the born again soul had complete control over it there would be no war. Really like Paul's discussion from Romans 7 thru 12 on this.

Are professed Christians who deliberately practice sin saved?

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