Are Non-Christians Predestined to go to Hell?

[Cary.Melvin]

Are Non-Christians Predestined to go to Hell?

For example, say a man who lived in Saudi Arabia (where Christianity is illegal to be taught) as a devout Muslim all of his life and died. Is he predestined by God to go to Hell because of the place and culture that he was born into did not allow him to be taught the Gospel?

Thanks,

 

[JJB]

Are Non-Christians Predestined to go to Hell?

For example, say a man who lived in Saudi Arabia (where Christianity is illegal to be taught) as a devout Muslim all of his life and died. Is he predestined by God to go to Hell because of the place and culture that he was born into did not allow him to be taught the Gospel?

Thanks,

Jesus reaches out even in Muslim countries. I have a good friend who has been living in a Muslim country for years as a missionary to share the gospel with any who can safely listen.

This is another way that Jesus reaches Muslims:

www.isaalmasih.net

Look at the dreams & visions section.

Culture is not a hindrance to God.

God is the one who changes the hearts of people, one of our jobs is to share the gospel. Until God changes the hearts of the unsaved, yes, I believe, they are predestined to be vessels of wrath for God's glory.

 

[frumanchu]

"God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of his free grace and love alone, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto; and all to the praise of his glorious grace.

The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice." - Westminster Confession of Faith, III, i,v,vii
​

If God purposes to save individuals in such circumstances, they will hear the Gospel and they will come to faith in Christ.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

If God purposes to save individuals in such circumstances, they will hear the Gospel and they will come to faith in Christ.

So according to Calvinism, people in the Muslim world who live their lives to the best of their abilities in submission to God are predestined to go to Hell?

 

[frumanchu]

So according to Calvinism, people in the Muslim world who live their lives to the best of their abilities in submission to God are predestined to go to Hell?

People in the Muslim world who live their lives to the best of their abilities in submission to the God of Islam will not be saved.

People in the Muslim world who lives their lives to the best of their abilities in submission to God are not Muslims, they're Christians.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Romans 9:22-24

22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[Cary.Melvin]

People in the Muslim world who live their lives to the best of their abilities in submission to the God of Islam will not be saved.

People in the Muslim world who lives their lives to the best of their abilities in submission to God are not Muslims, they're Christians.

Are they Jews predestined to go to Hell as well?

 

[frumanchu]

Are they Jews predestined to go to Hell as well?

Jews who have faith in Jesus Christ will not. Jews who do not believe He is the Messiah will.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

How about people that are born mentally incapable that cannot confess faith in Jesus or children that die before being able to confess faith in Jesus? Are those people predestined to go to Hell?

 

[frumanchu]

How about people that are born mentally incapable that cannot confess faith in Jesus or children that die before being able to confess faith in Jesus? Are those people predestined to go to Hell?

Being unable to express faith is not the same as not possessing faith. God deals with them according to His grace and good will.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

Being unable to express faith is not the same as not possessing faith. God deals with them according to His grace and good will.

But for this example let us say that a person that is sufficiently mentally incapacitated from birth enough not to be able to possess a faith in Jesus (A mental vegetable, not just an inability to speak) and that a child that has not reached an age of reason enough to possess a faith in Christ that dies. Are they predestined by God to go to Hell?

 

[frumanchu]

But for this example let us say that a person that is sufficiently mentally incapacitated from birth enough not to be able to possess a faith in Jesus (A mental vegetable, not just an inability to speak) and that a child that has not reached an age of reason enough to possess a faith in Christ that dies. Are they predestined by God to go to Hell?

Such is at God's discretion. He deals with them no differently than with any other person. If it pleases Him to do so (and I personally believe it does), He will regenerate their hearts and inspire within it a love for Him, even if that love by means of their incapacitation cannot be expressed.

This is one of the chief differences between Reformed sotriology and others. Those who do not believe in God's unconditional election are forced to invent things such as an "age of accountability" or deny the full scope of original sin in order to make provision for the salvation of the disabled and infants. The Reformed position remains consistent: whom God purposes to save He can and will.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

Such is at God's discretion. He deals with them no differently than with any other person. If it pleases Him to do so (and I personally believe it does), He will regenerate their hearts and inspire within it a love for Him, even if that love by means of their incapacitation cannot be expressed.

This is one of the chief differences between Reformed sotriology and others. Those who do not believe in God's unconditional election are forced to invent things such as an "age of accountability" or deny the full scope of original sin in order to make provision for the salvation of the disabled and infants. The Reformed position remains consistent: whom God purposes to save He can and will.

Nevertheless, from what I gather from what you and others have said in this forum, anyone who does not have faith in Jesus, including people that die in infancy or who are severely mentally disabled, are predestined by God to Hell. Right?

 

[Beoga]

Nevertheless, from what I gather from what you and others have said in this forum, anyone who does not have faith in Jesus, including people that die in infancy or who are severely mentally disabled, are predestined by God to Hell. Right?

Did you not read what you quoted? Fru answered this question. God deals with the person individually. If God chooses to regenerate them and give them a love for Him, He will do so. We cannot dogmatically say what God will do with each and every person.

 

[pinkieposies]

Nevertheless, from what I gather from what you and others have said in this forum, anyone who does not have faith in Jesus, including people that die in infancy or who are severely mentally disabled, are predestined by God to Hell. Right?

As far as I can tell, no one has claimed that infants or the severely mentally handicapped are pretestined to go to hell because of their inability to have faith. It clearly says in God's Word that we are all just as incapable of receiving faith on our own; we are all infants, incapable and disabled in this respect. Yet God chooses, by His own good will and pleasure {which we are not capable of fully understanding} to save some and to not save others. This is the most wonderful thing about true faith! We receive it by God's grace alone! Not by our own abilities! This includes infants and the disabled; it is all up to God's own GOOD WILL and PLEASURE. Our God is not a God who delights in evil or darkness; so I also personally believe that He would pleasure in saving those infants, etc. But it is not up to us who is saved, and we cannot truly know each person who is. In these cases all we can do is trust in God, and what He has revealed to us about who He is in His Word. Because He is fully capable, merciful, and just enough to save us and any one else that He pleases.

If you are confused, I suggest you go back and re-read the posts that Frumanchu posted about this. He said it all very well; clearly and simply .

Better yet, go to your Bible. Read Romans or anything else in there regarding predestination or the sovereignity of God for yourself and see what you come up with.

And if you still don't get it, maybe you are not paying attention, or you're just here looking for an argument.

God Bless,
Erin

 

[Cary.Melvin]

As far as I can tell, no one has claimed that infants or the severely mentally handicapped are pretestined to go to hell because of their inability to have faith. It clearly says in God's Word that we are all just as incapable of receiving faith on our own; we are all infants, incapable and disabled in this respect. Yet God chooses, by His own good will and pleasure {which we are not capable of fully understanding} to save some and to not save others. This is the most wonderful thing about true faith! We receive it by God's grace alone! Not by our own abilities! This includes infants and the disabled; it is all up to God's own GOOD WILL and PLEASURE. Our God is not a God who delights in evil or darkness; so I also personally believe that He would pleasure in saving those infants, etc. But it is not up to us who is saved, and we cannot truly know each person who is. In these cases all we can do is trust in God, and what He has revealed to us about who He is in His Word. Because He is fully capable, merciful, and just enough to save us and any one else that He pleases.

If you are confused, I suggest you go back and re-read the posts that Frumanchu posted about this. He said it all very well; clearly and simply .

Better yet, go to your Bible. Read Romans or anything else in there regarding predestination or the sovereignity of God for yourself and see what you come up with.

And if you still don't get it, maybe you are not paying attention, or you're just here looking for an argument.

God Bless,
Erin

But from the Calvinist point of view (if I am correct), A person that is predestined to salvation would not die in infancy or be born severely mentally disabled, because that would prevent them from having a faith in Jesus, which you need for salvation.


If a Calvinist can positively discern, based on ones faith as evidence, that they are predestined to salvation, wouldn't it follow that if God created someone who was unable to have faith in Jesus, they would be predestined to damnation?

 

[Jon_]

Are Non-Christians Predestined to go to Hell?

For example, say a man who lived in Saudi Arabia (where Christianity is illegal to be taught) as a devout Muslim all of his life and died. Is he predestined by God to go to Hell because of the place and culture that he was born into did not allow him to be taught the Gospel?

Thanks,

I cannot says that that particular person is predestined to hell. No one knows who the elect or reprobate are. I think the question, "Are non-Christians predestined to go to hell?" might be a little vague in meaning, so I'll respond in this fashion: the reprobate are predestined to go to hell.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[pinkieposies]

But from the Calvinist point of view (if I am correct), A person that is predestined to salvation would not die in infancy or be born severly mentally disabled, because that would prevent them from having a faith in Jesus which you need for salvation.

If a Calvinist can positivly disurn, based on ones faith as evidence, that they are predestined to salvation, wouldn't it follow that if God created someone who was unable to have faith in Jesus, would be predestined to damnation?

First of all: NOTHING can keep you from salvation but God's own decision to do so! Second: No one needs to "prove" their faith to anyone; Not a Calvanist, a Baptist, or me or you, or anyone! Third: Like I already said, "Without God we are ALL unable" from the get-go! And what makes you think that just because an infant has died before they could preform any works of faith {or PROOF in your thinking it seems}, that Christ has not worked through them??? It is not what we do, it is what CHRIST does through us!

Erin

 

[Jon_]

So according to Calvinism, people in the Muslim world who live their lives to the best of their abilities in submission to God are predestined to go to Hell?

The works of an unrighteous man are as rags to the Lord (Is. 64:6). Even the plowing of the unrighteous is sinful to God (Prov. 21:4). The Lord looks down from heaven to see if there is any who does good, but there are none (Ps. 14:3).

Do not fool yourself. There are no Muslims that do good. They are evil, wicked, God-hating tools of Satan, who willingly transgress the law and make war against God.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

Are they Jews predestined to go to Hell as well?

The reprobate Jews are, yes.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon