Are Mormon's Christian?

CaDan · Nov 26, 2005

S Walch said:
Why bother posting the EXACT same things when I can just link to a site which does them for me?

And why label it down to things to what just Jesus has said - Let's take the whole Bible into acount eh?

Let's take the entire CARMS site into account, too.

MarsHill · Nov 26, 2005

Cassandra said:
This isn't directed towards me...but being an atheist does not prevent someone from having knowledge or seeking knowledge about religion/s. Maybe he was once a Mormon or he just thought it would be interesting to find out what it was about and decided to study it. I'm currently in a World Religions class and don't follow any of the religions we study. Nor do I have a secret desire to.

You are correct. My views do not stop me from studying other belief systems. I have not heard a response from him. My thought was "Why is a atheist defending Mormonism." It's a question worth pondering.

S Walch · Nov 26, 2005

CaDan said:
Let's take the entire CARMS site into account, too.

Do so, they've said that they'll change anything they state when people prove another position to them - and they've done it in the past, so I don't see why they'd stop now.

MarsHill · Nov 26, 2005

CaDan said:
But what if I choose the Gospel simply because it is a better way of life right here and right now?

Indeed it is a better way of life right now because the principles set forth within the Gospel show us the way God wants us to live. If these principles are Godly principles then I would tend to believe that they are the only way to live a proper life.

On the other hand choosing to live this life in a time where everything is to be accepted except for the Christian belief system (where we are all called narrow minded and intolerant) is something that we must have strong convictions about. The truth is that all religions are exclusive. Even those who claim that they are the most "tolerant" have proven how intolerant they actually are.

CaDan · Nov 26, 2005

MarsHill said:
Indeed it is a better way of life right now because the principles set forth within the Gospel show us the way God wants us to live. If these principles are Godly principles then I would tend to believe that they are the only way to live a proper life.

See! We agree!

Ice cream for everybody!

MarsHill said:
On the other hand choosing to live this life in a time where everything is to be accepted except for the Christian belief system (where we are all called narrow minded and intolerant) is something that we must have strong convictions about. The truth is that all religions are exclusive. Even those who claim that they are the most "tolerant" have proven how intolerant they actually are.

Doesn't seem to happen to me. Maybe something in the presentation, not the message. 'Cause, if someone is telling you something and it doesn't sound like good news, it's probably not the Good News.

MarsHill · Nov 26, 2005

CaDan said:
See! We agree!

Ice cream for everybody!

Doesn't seem to happen to me. Maybe something in the presentation, not the message. 'Cause, if someone is telling you something and it doesn't sound like good news, it's probably not the Good News.

Those who sit back and are quiet Christians never seem to stir the waters but as soon as you come out and talk about what you believe as a Christian then you are automatically considered guilty of something. Just like out here. No one knows me but I have already been lumped into the sterotypical, over enunciated world of evangelical preachers.
In the times of Jesus it obviously didn't sound like Good News to them. Just because it isn't something that we want to hear doesn't mean that it isn't Good News. Again, Jesus pointed out that there would be few that find it. The question is also asked in the Bible when Jesus returns will He find faith? And there will be a great falling away from the faith during the latter times.
Your above statement doesn't seem to hold water when it comes to Jesus. He came to give the Good News of eternal life but it sure didn't seem like anything good to those who heard it. If anyone should be credited with giving Good News it would be Jesus but how much credit has He been given for it?

Obviously we do not want to hear the truth. When truth came into this world and met humanity face to face what did we do?-----We crucified Him! What has changed in almost 2,000 years? The majority still tries to silence Him.

Cassiopeia · Nov 26, 2005

CaDan said:
See! We agree!

Ice cream for everybody!

Doesn't seem to happen to me. Maybe something in the presentation, not the message. 'Cause, if someone is telling you something and it doesn't sound like good news, it's probably not the Good News.

psst, hey hun, I got something better than ice cream.

CaDan · Nov 26, 2005

Casiopeia said:
psst, hey hun, I got something better than ice cream.

*shlurp*

Now THAT's some Good News!

seebs · Nov 26, 2005

S Walch said:
Do so, they've said that they'll change anything they state when people prove another position to them - and they've done it in the past, so I don't see why they'd stop now.

Ahh, but "prove" is a very strong word.

What they preach contradicts the Bible except as they have chosen to interpret it to support a particularly cruel agenda.

Trying to prove things to CARM is well into "pearls before swine" territory. They know what they are doing, they are doing it on purpose, and they have made their choice.

seebs · Nov 26, 2005

Casiopeia said:
psst, hey hun, I got something better than ice cream.

Mmm. Frappucino.

I really wish I could buy decaf frappucino at the grocery store, I love the stuff to bits but I nearly killed myself with a caffeine addiction once. (As in, "hospitalized".)

Cassiopeia · Nov 26, 2005

seebs said:
Mmm. Frappucino.

I really wish I could buy decaf frappucino at the grocery store, I love the stuff to bits but I nearly killed myself with a caffeine addiction once. (As in, "hospitalized".)

My daughter works for Starbucks. I will ask her where you can get it. Hospitalized? That couldn't have been very nice.

I try not to drink too much coffee, it tends to make my heart go in weird patterns. But it sure is yummy in a frappacino.

MarsHill · Nov 27, 2005

Some ice cream would still be nice. We are still mowing our lawns here in N.W. Florida. Normally cutting the grass ends in October but not this year. Warm weather brings on the desire for ice cream.

As for our discussion on Jesus I think it is a matter of "Will the real Jesus please stand up." Our problem is that we have yet to agree upon who Jesus really is and what He is or is not capable of doing. Without some common ground this discussion will never end. But, when I see the teachings of John Dominic Crossan and the Jesus Seminar ideology being brought forth along with some Red Herring style diversions topped with a little ad Hominem then it has become apparent that the questions will not be solved. We agree on terms but not definitions. We agree on the person but not Divinity of the person. We agree on the death but not necessarily the resurrection. There are many dividing issues here that will not allow us to progress. In reality the person we speak of has the same name (Jesus) but who and what He is differs greatly from person to person in this discussion.

CaDan · Nov 27, 2005

I like Crossan--he does an excellent job of describing the milieu of first century Palestine. I disagree with his analysis of the Resurrection. I think he takes too lightly the fact that Christianity survived the "death" of its founder.

But we are pretty far afield from the OP.

See ya' 'round the forum!

Good night and good luck.

ravenscape · Nov 27, 2005

Did someone say "Ice Cream"?

I used to live in the FL Panhandle.

urnotme · Nov 27, 2005

MarsHill said:
Some ice cream would still be nice. We are still mowing our lawns here in N.W. Florida. Normally cutting the grass ends in October but not this year. Warm weather brings on the desire for ice cream.

As for our discussion on Jesus I think it is a matter of "Will the real Jesus please stand up." Our problem is that we have yet to agree upon who Jesus really is and what He is or is not capable of doing. Without some common ground this discussion will never end. But, when I see the teachings of John Dominic Crossan and the Jesus Seminar ideology being brought forth along with some Red Herring style diversions topped with a little ad Hominem then it has become apparent that the questions will not be solved. We agree on terms but not definitions. We agree on the person but not Divinity of the person. We agree on the death but not necessarily the resurrection. There are many dividing issues here that will not allow us to progress. In reality the person we speak of has the same name (Jesus) but who and what He is differs greatly from person to person in this discussion.

I think their doctrine is too far fecthed to be called christian. The muslms believe in jesus christ too and most jews think he existed. This is a relatively new thing JS. didn't want to be called a christian because he thouught our theology was corripted.

peepnklown · Nov 27, 2005

S Walch said:
Yes, this is the third time I've posted the link below.

If you do not want to do your own homework, then please do not maintain that posting a link satisfies my request. Plus, if you want to understand LDS doctrine, it would be best if you actually would read the Book of Mormon and may be refer to the LDS site.

MarsHill said:
How does an atheist become and expert on Mormon theology?

Does a person need to believe in Zeus in order to be an expert or knowledgeable in Greek mythology? When discussing a subject, isnt best to be knowledgeable about it?

S Walch · Nov 27, 2005

peepnklown said:
If you do not want to do your own homework, then please do not maintain that posting a link satisfies my request. Plus, if you want to understand LDS doctrine, it would be best if you actually would read the Book of Mormon and may be refer to the LDS site. [/color]

Here you make the mistake of:

a) Stating that I haven't read the Book of Mormon, even though I have never stated whether I have or not - Yay, pre-judgement prevails!

b) Thinking that Mormons only get their doctrine from the Book of Mormon.

No Mormon here has said that CARM says wrong things about Mormon doctrine - all they've done is complained that I ''haven't done my own research'' - If carm has said nothing wrong about Mormon teachings, then why can't I link to it?

You asked for someone to contrast Christian Doctrine against Mormon Doctrine - CARM has already done that and I feel no need of wasting everyones time by just re-posting what CARM has said, seeing as though no Mormon has actually proved what they've said is wrong.

peepnklown · Nov 27, 2005

urnotme said:
The Muslims believe in Jesus Christ too and most Jews think he existed.

But, Muslims and Jews do not worship Jesus as their savior thus the difference.

S Walch said:
Stating that I haven't read the Book of Mormon, even though I have never stated whether I have or not - Yay, pre-judgment prevails!

I did not state that you havent read the Book of Mormon. It was more of advice since you havent shown that you have any knowledge pertaining to the subject since all I have seen is you, copying and pasting sites.

S Walch said:
Thinking that Mormons only get their doctrine from the Book of Mormon.

Hey! Something else Mormons and so-called Christians have in common. I did not say that Mormons only get their doctrine from the Book of Mormon, talk about presuming.

S Walch said:
No Mormon here has said that CARM says wrong things about Mormon doctrine - all they've done is complained that I ''haven't done my own research'' - If carm has said nothing wrong about Mormon teachings, then why can't I link to it?

Well, since only ONE Mormon has posted I believe this statement is silly. Several people have complained about CARM, and I also believe its nothing more than propaganda rather than information.

S Walch said:
You asked for someone to contrast Christian Doctrine against Mormon Doctrine - CARM has already done that and I feel no need of wasting everyones time by just re-posting what CARM has said, seeing as though no Mormon has actually proved what they've said is wrong.

If you cannot do your own homework then why bother posting? Honestly, I cannot let a website to everything for me.

S Walch · Nov 27, 2005

peepnklown said:
If you cannot do your own homework then why bother posting? Honestly, I cannot let a website do everything for me.

70% of the people on this site best stop posting then!

Plus who said I ''cannot do my own homework'' ?

I can, and actually have done, but seeing as though I basically found the same things CARM did, why should I bother just re-typing basically what they've already typed out?

Man, humans want people to do everything the hard way!

Edit:

Well, since only ONE Mormon has posted I believe this statement is silly.

There's been two as far as I could see...

Rae · Nov 27, 2005

They do not follow christian doctrine

I bet you don't follow all Christian doctrines, either. Do you think the Pope is the head of the Church? They're as much Christians as anyone else claiming to be Christian. Most Christians just don't like Mormons and their theology, so they find ways to exclude them.

Are Mormon's Christian?

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