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MarsHill said:In the end will heaven be populated with an entire group of forgiven sinners that are still running from God? There will have to be some force involved in order to make heaven a peaceful place if this happens. Does that sound like heaven to you? Will God allow this in heaven?
Eldy said:LOL! Basically this is what I hear in all the evangelical churches; If you don't believe everything we teach and OUR interpretation of the Bible then you are going to hell forever and ever and ever. Thankfully my God is so far above such antics.
CaDan said:We'll find out when we get there, I suppose.
I tend not to worry about it.
MarsHill said:Worrying about it then may place you where you do not desire to be. Why worry about it when it is too late?
If there ends up being no universal salvation and no second chances then you have lost everything my friend.
Spending eternity wishing for another chance is not something I would choose.
MarsHill said:By the way--- your signature should read "No peace without the Prince of Peace."
CaDan said:I'll take a pass on Pascal's wager, thank you.
But Father Abraham did have many sons!
Oh, the other bit.
Perhaps by manifesting the fruit of the Spirit ourselves through dialogue and discussion, we can help bring about a bit of the Kingdom of God. I certainly hope so. I'm with St. Francis of Assissi on this one:
Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
peaceful soul said:I am not certain as to what you mean. In response to the reaminder of your post:That would cheapen Christ's message if that were true and render it useless.
MarsHill said:You can pass up Pascal's wager all you want. Just remember that it won't be a valid excuse.
Blaise Pascal also said, "People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive." You should remember that Truth is not a matter of taste but it is an objective matter of fact and believing a lie will not change that.
I do not think our dialogue or the manner in which we discuss things will bring about the kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God will manifest itself with or without us.
My goal is to discover Truth. Truth is the bottom line.
Father Abraham did have many sons but only one God that was to unite them all. Unfortunately Isaac's descendants and Ishmael's descendants do not agree on the overall picture of God.
MarsHill said:If there ends up being no universal salvation and no second chances then you have lost everything my friend.
Spending eternity wishing for another chance is not something I would choose.
And that is just it, isn't it seebs, all we can do is trust in God. It is called faith.seebs said:This seems to be implying that he is not Christian. Why would you do that?
But you may have chosen it, because if there is only one right answer, it is possible that someone else has it and you don't.
In the end, we must trust God to treat us better than we deserve. Conveniently, we are justified in this trust.
seebs said:It's not a valid argument.
If it were, we would all follow MegaGawd, who will damn you and the two people you love most if you reject HHHim, but will send you to Heaven with two people of your choice if you accept HHHim. Until they heard about SuperMaxiGod, who will damn five people if you reject HHHHHim.
And so on.
Much better to have actual faith than be suckered by a bad argument.
Right. Pascal's wager is bogus, no matter how pretty it sounds.
No, it will manifest itself in us and through us. This is in the Bible, you can look it up if you want.
Then you should reject shoddy argumentation even if it seems to yield nice results.
So what? They can disagree about what God is like all they want. The chances are that Isaac's and Ishmael's descendants also disagreed about what Abraham is like, but it doesn't mean that Isaac and Ishmael had different fathers named Abraham.
If we are to be monotheists, then we are stuck with the realization that everyone who worships the One God worships the same God we do. There is no other Creator of All Things.
MarsHill said:If Issac and Ishmael differed in their opinion in what Abraham was like then what would happen if Abraham asked them both to do something but they both interpreted it differently? What if there were consequences and/or punishment from Father Abraham if one of the siblings did not properly do what he asked them to do? The argument is not whether we worship a different God. There is only one God whether we believe in Him or even like the fact. But, if God the Father tells us that there is one way to do something and we decide to re-interpret what He has said and do it our way anyway then should we not suffer the consequences or receive the punishment? Differing in opinion o an earthly father is much different than differing in opinion on our heavenly Father. Eternal consequences seem a little more important.
CaDan said:Oh, and why are we having this discussion in NCR?
seebs said:This seems to be implying that he is not Christian. Why would you do that?
That's not an implication that he is not a Christian. But, if universalism is not true and we are expected to have faith in the right way then simply believing in universalism will not save us. Saying, "I simply choose to believe in the end that everyone will be saved" seems contrary to the facts we have been given. I agree. It would be nice to see everyone saved. I'm all for it. Unfortunately, I cannot valid evidence that proves it.
But you may have chosen it, because if there is only one right answer, it is possible that someone else has it and you don't.
In the end, we must trust God to treat us better than we deserve. Conveniently, we are justified in this trust.
MarsHill said:Peepnklown-
Your personal information states that you are an atheist. How does an atheist become and expert on Mormon theology? If you know for sure that there is no God then why are you studying a relgion that claims that are many gods? Maybe you are not a true atheist. What is your view?
DjDan said:walch... nothing to say of yourself? all you do is post links to an anti-mormon website. carms. That doesn't really help much. I'm asking you, and i think peep is asking you to make it clear in words what makes a christian. We've already established that the definition of 'christian' is totally unrelated to the nicean creed.
list the commandments.... liste the teachings of Jesus... and i'll tell you if i agree with them or not.
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