Are impure thoughts only sins if you act on them?

[flicka]

You're forgetting the idea that God is a God of love.

That's like saying a child has power or authority over his parents because his attitude can make his parents happy or sad.

Human parents are not God. I was under the impression God was a little more than us...

Personifying God so you can have a relationship with him is a very human thing to do. Giving him the attributes of a human mind reader ("Oh no! I thought about sex with my girlfriend! Poor God must be sooooooo upset!!") is childish.

 

[Faith In God]

Human parents are not God. I was under the impression God was a little more than us...

Sure.

But if Jesus says that a look with an intent to lust after a woman is sin and judgeable by God, we have proof enough that God "requires truth in the inward parts" and does, indeed, care how we think.

Personifying God so you can have a relationship with him is a very human thing to do. Giving him the attributes of a human mind reader ("Oh no! I thought about sex with my girlfriend! Poor God must be sooooooo upset!!") is childish.

You're right. You're also putting words in a few mouths.

As for "Personifying God", we don't do it out of whim: we act as we understand how God is. He feels, but He also isn't a crybaby.

 

[flicka]

Sure.

But if Jesus says that a look with an intent to lust after a woman is sin and judgeable by God, we have proof enough that God "requires truth in the inward parts" and does, indeed, care how we think. You're right. You're also putting words in a few mouths.
As for "Personifying God", we don't do it out of whim: we act as we understand how God is. He feels, but He also isn't a crybaby.

Not really, it was just the logical conclusion to thinking God can be pleased or displeased with our thoughts. And judge us on them even! You can't unthink a thought but you can choose not to perform an action, or make amends to someone you hurt if you do something wrong.

Thoughts are about the only thing people have that other people can't know and criticize each other on, which is why people claim that God is doing that. It's a control issue. But really....what's God gunna do? If he isn't emotional about things (IE: crying over your sex thoughts) is he going to trot out all your impure thoughts when you die and punish you for them? That would defeat the whole purpose of Jesus. So where exactly are do a persons thought lay in the big scheme of things? I'll tell you....nowhere.

Seriously, it's hard enough for some to feel good about themselves as Christan's without them freaking out over thoughts popping into their head too.

 

[Faith In God]

Not really, it was just the logical conclusion to thinking God can be pleased or displeased with our thoughts. And judge us on them even! You can't unthink a thought but you can choose not to perform an action, or make amends to someone you hurt if you do something wrong.

I'm sorry, I missed the connection...

Thoughts are about the only thing people have that other people can't know and criticize each other on, which is why people claim that God is doing that. It's a control issue. But really....what's God gunna do? If he isn't emotional about things (IE: crying over your sex thoughts) is he going to trot out all your impure thoughts when you die and punish you for them? That would defeat the whole purpose of Jesus. So where exactly are do a persons thought lay in the big scheme of things? I'll tell you....nowhere.

[bible]Psalm 51:6[/bible]

Do you think God is going to mock those He must destroy in hellfire?
If a thought is sin, it grieves God that the person is doing such a thing.

If a person's thoughts will lead them in the wrong direction, potentially to ultimate hell, of course He is going to care.

Seriously, it's hard enough for some to feel good about themselves as Christan's without them freaking out over thoughts popping into their head too.

Again, thoughts are not sin!

If a priest looks at a choir boy in church and has impure thoughts, is it only a sin if he acts on it?
1) It is sin if he acts on it
2) Temptation is not sin. To be tempted, there must be thought. Therefore, thoughts are not sin.
3) BUT!! If the thought is not delt with, the priest would be sinning for harboring those thoughts rather than kicking them out.

As C H Spurgeon put it, you can't stop birds from flying over your head, but you can stop them making a nest in your hair.

 

[Faith In God]

Well... As a preschool teacher and an ECE degree student... I'd have to say that's not entirely incorrect. A lot of parents allow their children to have authority over them because they would rather be their child's friend than parent. They will let their kids run amok because they don't want to be sad that their children are sad.

That wasn't my point at all...

Should I reiterate, or was this a side-thought?

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

I'd also like to add, thoughts aren't just images...they also include words...and words very rarely just pop in your mind, especially full phrases...people definitely have a lot of control of that...

 

[Faith In God]

If anyone (Christian or otherwise) holds any qualms with this, please let me know.

Again, thoughts are not sin!

If a priest looks at a choir boy in church and has impure thoughts, is it only a sin if he acts on it?

1) It is sin if he acts on it
2) Temptation is not sin. To be tempted, there must be thought. Therefore, thoughts are not sin.
3) BUT!! If the thought is not delt with, the priest would be sinning for harboring those thoughts rather than kicking them out.

As C H Spurgeon put it, you can't stop birds from flying over your head, but you can stop them making a nest in your hair.

 

[Mjonller]

Your thoughts are your own, why is it immoral to think for ones self?

 

[ReluctantProphet]

[FONT=&quot]

If a priest looks at a choir boy in church and has impure thoughts, is it only a sin if he acts on it?

This depends.

If he has feelings associated with the thought, either good or bad, then he most definitely has sinned already.

If he merely considers the idea as though discussing the very concept of it with another without feelings either way, then no he has not sinned at all.

ANY thought that brings passion to the heart also blinds the mind. The mind loses its ability to judge subtle detail (this is called "lust" from "luster"). Those errors in judgment are a sin against himself and the Holy Spirit.

If a man lusts toward something which will result in greater harmony with God than not, then he has still sinned against himself in that he has lost judgment, but fortunately he happened to be falling in a direction that was to his favor.

Jesus made wine of the water, but the wine was alluring toward the Holy Spirit and casting out the blinding that was already there.

[/FONT]

 

[ReluctantProphet]

Your thoughts are your own, why is it immoral to think for ones self?

It is not only NOT immoral, it is absolutely required by scripture.

It is only those who have not thought for themselves who teach that understanding is to be replaced by blind faith. They are in error.

 

[royboy]

[FONT=&quot]This depends.

If he has feelings associated with the thought, either good or bad, then he most definitely has sinned already.

If he merely considers the idea as though discussing the very concept of it with another without feelings either way, then no he has not sinned at all.

ANY thought that brings passion to the heart also blinds the mind. The mind loses its ability to judge subtle detail (this is called "lust" from "luster"). Those errors in judgment are a sin against himself and the Holy Spirit.

If a man lusts toward something which will result in greater harmony with God than not, then he has still sinned against himself in that he has lost judgment, but fortunately he happened to be falling in a direction that was to his favor.

Jesus made wine of the water, but the wine was alluring toward the Holy Spirit and casting out the blinding that was already there.

[/FONT]

What if his reaction is involuntary. Like a wet dream or a "boner" during church?

 

[royboy]

If anyone (Christian or otherwise) holds any qualms with this, please let me know.[/size][/font]

What do you mean by dealt with when you say "if the thought isn't dealt with"?

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Your thoughts are your own, why is it immoral to think for ones self?

No, no no, thinking sinful thoughts, which can be images or words...are immoral and sin. Something poping in your head and quickly eliminated by you isn't sin. But bringing it up in your own mind of your own will or keeping a bad thought is sin.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

I don't think so. See, this would mean YOU have power over God. The power to make him happy or sad. Like I said before, some parts of religion, certain beliefs like this, really are nothing more than an extreme focus on self, to increase your sense of importance and control. It really is an ego thing. I mean how important must you be if your very thoughts can make God feel bad?

Nope...God has said, not to grieve Him and if you actually read the bible you can see you either please Him or displease Him. That's not controling Him. He is still in control and will judge us. He wants our obedience and deserves it. Yes He gets grieved...that's not control. That's life because He actually loves us and cares that we harm ourselves. I have no idea where ego comes in, because it doesn't. We are all important to God, saved or not...so bad thoughts of both saved and unsaved grieve God. That's life because...He LOVES us... That's not ego. It involves self sacrifice to please God. That's not ego either. And loving God enough to care and monotor your actions isn't ego. What the issue is, your view is completely wrong on the issue. You see it as us thinking we are so wonderful that God cares and He's a cry baby that wants His way....FALSE...He's KING of the UNIVERSE, ruler of all and DESERVES obedience. He loves us and thus hurts when we 'slap' him on the face w/ our disobedience because He knows we harm ourselves. He loves us so much he tells us to do and not to do certain things. Obeying Him and monotoring yourself not to do that is out of LOVE of GOD, not arrogance.


If you displease a parent...are you controling them and do they have a fit because they are displeased w/ their child? No. So why assume that absurd conclusion about God? God is like a parent. He is King of the Universe. You either please Him or not.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Seriously, it's hard enough for some to feel good about themselves as Christan's without them freaking out over thoughts popping into their head too.

Have you read anything in this thread? If it pops in your mind and you eliminate it, you didn't sin! If you keep it there it is or if you willfully induce the thought to begin w/, it's sin. It's that simple. It comes to self control...having self control doesn't make you go crazy or be paranoid which you seem to assume people who try keeping clean thoughts do. Which is entirely false.

 

[Febe]

It depends... If I get an impuls of lust towards a man (not my own), I wouldn´t consider it a sin; it might just as well be an attack of our enimy...
If I dwell in that lust, making fantasies about it - Yes, that IS a sin, and it is to be confessed...

 

[sparklecat]

In general, I have no problem with anyone thinking about whatever they like. However, if your personality is such that dwelling on the thoughts is going to make you more likely to try and act them out, and if acting them out would hurt others against their will or to an overly extreme degree, then yes, you should try to not dwell on the thoughts/fantasies. If you have no problem keeping your fantasies and reality seperate, go for it.

 

[Faith In God]

In general, I have no problem with anyone thinking about whatever they like. However, if your personality is such that dwelling on the thoughts is going to make you more likely to try and act them out, and if acting them out would hurt others against their will or to an overly extreme degree, then yes, you should try to not dwell on the thoughts/fantasies. If you have no problem keeping your fantasies and reality seperate, go for it.

That philosophy doesn't account for "sin".

thumbsup: Lilly)

 

[sparklecat]

That philosophy doesn't account for "sin".

thumbsup: Lilly)

I doubt I have the same beliefs about sin that you do. Could you clarify what you mean?