Are Icons of Jesus a Violation of the 2nd Commandment?

[tonychanyt]

Ex 20:

4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them.

The 2nd commandment wasn't against, e.g., making sculptures of lions. God commanded Moses to make golden cherubim (Ex 25:18). More precisely, the commandment was against worshiping images. The purpose of the commandment was to prevent idolatry.

Icons of Jesus are fine if you don't worship them. People sometimes conflate the person of Jesus from his icons. To avoid that, I would not bother having any icons.

Are Icons of Jesus a Violation of the 2nd Commandment?

No.

 

[Grafted In]

But they can mislead.
We don't know what he looked like, so I think photos of a mortal man displayed in such a way as to imply it is a picture of Jesus is wrong.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

But they can mislead.
We don't know what he looked like, so I think photos of a mortal man displayed in such a way as to imply it is a picture of Jesus is wrong.

???

 

[Grafted In]

Was that created using that shroud?

 

[Diamond72]

More precisely, the commandment was against worshiping images. The purpose of the commandment was to prevent idolatry.

The Bible has deep roots in oral traditions that stretch back to the earliest patriarchs, including Abraham and even to Adam. These traditions were passed down through generations before being written down.

Abraham and Idolatry:​

• Abraham's Father, Terah worshipped idols, which was a significant issue for Abraham. Jewish traditions, particularly in the Midrash, recount that Abraham destroyed his father's idols to demonstrate his rejection of idolatry and commitment to the one true God.
• Separation of Astrology from Astronomy: There are traditions that suggest Abraham made a clear distinction between astrology, which was often associated with idol worship and divination, and astronomy, which is the study of the stars and planets.

Abraham's Role:​

• Foundation of Monotheism: Abraham is seen as a pivotal figure in the shift from polytheism to monotheism. His faith and obedience to God set a precedent for future generations.

These stories highlight Abraham's dedication to monotheism and his role in establishing a distinct faith in God, separate from the idolatrous practices of his time.

The Apostle Paul uses the metaphor of wild olive branches grafted into a cultivated olive tree to describe how Gentile believers are included in the covenant promises made to Abraham. This illustration is found in Romans 11:17-24.

 

[Grafted In]

Google Image Result for https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5091bda5e4b0979eac787995/1586857350787-AVHENPWVNKSAX9IX1YSP/matzah1.jpg

 

[Diamond72]

We don't know what he looked like, so I think photos of a mortal man displayed in such a way as to imply it is a picture of Jesus is wrong.

Does that include the last supper?


what is sacred geometry

Sacred geometry refers to the belief that certain geometric shapes and proportions have inherent sacred meanings and can be found in the design of the universe, as well as in religious architecture and art. This concept is rooted in the idea that nature and the cosmos are constructed according to a divine geometric plan. Here are some key aspects of sacred geometry:

Key Concepts:​

1. Geometric Patterns in Nature: Sacred geometry is observed in natural patterns such as the arrangement of leaves, the shape of snowflakes, and the structure of crystals.
2. Mathematical Ratios: Proportions like the Golden Ratio (φ) and the Fibonacci sequence are considered sacred and can be found in natural phenomena and classical art.
3. Symbolic Shapes: Certain shapes, like circles, triangles, and spirals, are believed to hold spiritual significance.

Examples of Sacred Geometry:​

• Flower of Life: A geometric figure composed of multiple evenly spaced, overlapping circles, symbolizing the interconnectedness of life.
• Metatron's Cube: A complex figure that includes all five Platonic solids (tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, dodecahedron, and icosahedron), representing the building blocks of the universe.
• Pentagram: A five-pointed star that has various symbolic meanings in different cultures and religions.
• Vesica Piscis: The shape formed by the intersection of two circles of the same radius, symbolizing the intersection of the spiritual and material worlds.

Applications in Architecture and Art:​

• Ancient Monuments: Structures like the Pyramids of Giza and Stonehenge incorporate principles of sacred geometry.
• Religious Buildings: Many cathedrals, mosques, and temples are designed with geometric patterns that reflect sacred principles.
• Mandalas: In Hinduism and Buddhism, mandalas are intricate geometric designs that serve as spiritual symbols and aids in meditation.

Spiritual Significance:​

• Connection to the Divine: Sacred geometry is often seen as a way to connect with the divine and understand the underlying order of the cosmos.
• Meditative Practice: Creating and contemplating geometric patterns can be a form of meditation, helping individuals attain a sense of balance and harmony.

Sacred geometry is a fascinating intersection of mathematics, art, and spirituality. If anyone remembers the first thing they teach you is a line connects two points. Points: Represent locations; they are zero-dimensional and have no size or shape.

If you want to meet your friend for lunch, you need a time and a place. You both have to be at the same place at the same time. The question then is, how long do you wait for someone to show up.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

Was that created using that shroud?

Apart from the (in all likelihood incorrectly performed (due to the shroud having been in a fire)) carbon dating, all other evidence so far seems to support its authenticity with it showing the body of a crucified man with all the features and story of Yeshua. There are so many tiny details from the Shroud's analysis that cannot be faked in the Medieval time period that it's nearly impossible to develop any other explanation but to allow for it to be real.

Have a look a this very recent YouTube clip on the Shroud by dr. John Campbell.

It's been many decades for me that I first saw the image of the man depicted on the Shroud and read about it extensively - it felt like being struck by lightning. (btw I'm not Roman Catholic or Orthodox)

 

[AveChristusRex]

Apart from the (in all likelihood incorrectly performed (due to the shroud having been in a fire)) carbon dating, all other evidence so far seems to support its authenticity with it showing the body of a crucified man with all the features and story of Yeshua. There are so many tiny details from the Shroud's analysis that cannot be faked in the Medieval time period that it's nearly impossible to develop any other explanation but to allow for it to be real.

Have a look a this very recent YouTube clip on the Shroud by dr. John Campbell.

It's been many decades for me that I first saw the image of the man depicted on the Shroud and read about it extensively - it felt like being struck by lightning. (btw I'm not Roman Catholic or Orthodox)

The Shroud is probably one of the greatest finds ever, and it will continue to be the [literal] face of the Church for centuries to come, the face of our savior.

 

[Grafted In]

I can't argue with your claims. Perhaps it is real.
I have not researched it recently.

 

[David Lamb]

The Shroud is probably one of the greatest finds ever, and it will continue to be the [literal] face of the Church for centuries to come, the face of our savior.

The apostle John wrote to Christians about seeing Jesus as He is, and it has nothing to do with a shroud, which may or may not be the cloth in which the Saviour was buried:

“Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.” (1Jo 3:1-3 NKJV)

 

[Diamond72]

which may or may not be the cloth in which the Saviour was buried:

Forensic Science is very advanced and there are a lot of people in prison because of Forensic Science. While forensic science has provided valuable insights into the Shroud of Turin, it cannot definitively prove or disprove its authenticity. The Shroud has been the subject of numerous scientific studies, including radiocarbon dating, analysis of the image, and testing of the bloodstains.

 

[David Lamb]

Forensic Science is very advanced and there are a lot of people in prison because of Forensic Science. While forensic science has provided valuable insights into the Shroud of Turin, it cannot definitively prove or disprove its authenticity. The Shroud has been the subject of numerous scientific studies, including radiocarbon dating, analysis of the image, and testing of the bloodstains.

Yes, I agree. I understand that the shroud gives indications of it having wrapped a victim of crucifixion, and that its age would fit with when Jesus was crucified, but I don't see how anyone could ever prove that it was indeed part of the grave clothes in which the body of Jesus was wrapped.

 

[Aaron112]

Yes. Totally. Icons and avatars of images are Sinful each and every time . (according to Jesus).

No. They're okay, enjoy them. (according to sinners in error, religions)

Are Icons of Jesus a Violation of the 2nd Commandment?

 

[Aaron112]

Simple English.

Exodus 20 :4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,

 

[Diamond72]

Yes, I agree. I understand that the shroud gives indications of it having wrapped a victim of crucifixion, and that its age would fit with when Jesus was crucified, but I don't see how anyone could ever prove that it was indeed part of the grave clothes in which the body of Jesus was wrapped.

You need a time and a location. Pollen Analysis: Studies have found pollen grains on the shroud that are native to the Jerusalem area, supporting its geographical origin. So Pollen Analysis does confirm the location.

 

[David Lamb]

You need a time and a location. Pollen Analysis: Studies have found pollen grains on the shroud that are native to the Jerusalem area, supporting its geographical origin. So Pollen Analysis does confirm the location.

Thank you.

 

[jas3]

Simple English.

So you can't make, say, a bronze statue of a snake, or statues of cherubim made out of hammered gold?

 

[tonychanyt]

but I don't see how anyone could ever prove that it was indeed part of the grave clothes in which the body of Jesus was wrapped.

Right. That's where probability comes in. See What is the probability that the Shroud of Turin shows the image of Jesus? and follow up there.

 

[Aaron112]

The bronze snake was eventually destroyed by King Hezekiah as part of his religious reforms

to rid Judah of idolatry.

a bronze statue of a snake