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Are humans special?

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laptoppop

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In another thread a little discussion started up - rather than derail that thread, I thought a new thread was in order.

Is humankind special -- made in the image of God, or nothing more than another animal? I thought there would be general agreement that however mankind got here, we occupied a very special place in creation -- but I'm getting folks arguing the other position. What say you?
 

theIdi0t

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In another thread a little discussion started up - rather than derail that thread, I thought a new thread was in order.

Is humankind special -- made in the image of God, or nothing more than another animal? I thought there would be general agreement that however mankind got here, we occupied a very special place in creation -- but I'm getting folks arguing the other position. What say you?

In God's eyes we are special, in our eyes we are not. God may see you as the first, but you should see yourself as the last.

Abraham sees himself as nothing but dust and ashes, he makes being no more than another animal seem praise worthy:

"Abraham spoke up again: "See how I am presuming to speak to my Lord, though I am but dust and ashes!"

And let's not forget to hear what Solomon has to say.

Eccles 3,18-19:
I said to myself: As for the children of men, it is God's way of testing them and of showing that they are in themselves like beasts.

For the lot of man and of beast is one lot; the one dies as well as the other. Both have the same life-breath, and man has no advantage over the beast; but all is vanity.
 
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laptoppop

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I thought this thread was supposed to be on whether or not humans are animals.
Huh? I just started the thread. If you want a different topic start your own thread.

What's this "special" thing going on? Are you trying to wiggle it so that if someone says humans are animals, that means they think humans aren't special?
I'm trying to understand if folks around here, especially TEs, see humans as different in a unique way, or just another animal.
 
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Dannager

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Huh? I just started the thread. If you want a different topic start your own thread.
Rather than derail this thread with a discussion of man being just an animal or not, I've started a new thread to discuss it more fully.
That's what you said this thread was going to be about.
I'm trying to understand if folks around here, especially TEs, see humans as different in a unique way, or just another animal.
We see ourselves as unique animals.
 
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laptoppop

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In God's eyes we are special, in our eyes we are not. God may see you as the first, but you should see yourself as the last.

That sounds nice, but I would dispute it. Both God and I are well aware that I am a horrible sinner, saved only by His grace and the incredible gift of Jesus.

However -- mankind is also special. The Scriptures talk about us being made in the image of God. There is a natural level of respect and glory in what God has made in mankind. Yes, we are fallen - but we are also special, not just in His sight, but in our very natures.

Even if you interpret Genesis as myth, one of the spiritual lessons there is that Man is different qualitatively than the other animals.
 
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Dannager

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Even if you interpret Genesis as myth, one of the spiritual lessons there is that Man is different qualitatively than the other animals.
Sure. Snakes are also clearly qualitatively different than the other animals. Snakes are still animals, though.
 
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Dannager

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Unique in characteristics, nature or both?
Unique (in the absolute sense) in spiritual characteristics, unique in physical characteristics (in the sense that there are no other organisms with the same set of physical characteristics as humans) and unique in our capacity to think (for no other species of creature comes close). We are still, however, animals. Does that word bother you?
 
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laptoppop

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Yes, slightly -- but as long as we agree on mankind being made in the image of God and therefore unique and special, I'm ok. (and yah, by "made" I understand we have different definitions on the method used -- this thread is not about that)
 
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Dannager

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Yes, slightly -- but as long as we agree on mankind being made in the image of God and therefore unique and special, I'm ok. (and yah, by "made" I understand we have different definitions on the method used -- this thread is not about that)
I'm glad we're okay on that count.

Can I ask why you're not completely comfortable with the word 'animal'? Do you not like being categorized, physically, with the rest of the animal kingdom? The word 'animal' isn't a measurement of spiritual significance. It describes certain physiological traits.
 
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gluadys

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In another thread a little discussion started up - rather than derail that thread, I thought a new thread was in order.

Is humankind special -- made in the image of God, or nothing more than another animal? I thought there would be general agreement that however mankind got here, we occupied a very special place in creation -- but I'm getting folks arguing the other position. What say you?

But this is not the question you proposed in the other thread. That question was:

Am I correct that other TEs do not support this, or do you (other TEs) accept the general atheistic position that we are all animals?

To answer both questions together requires a "yes" and a "yes".

Yes, we are all animals.

And

Yes, we are made in the image of God, and occupy a very special place in creation.


Why do you assume an affirmation of the first statement requires a negation of the second? Or that an affirmation of the second statement requires a negation of the first?
 
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laptoppop

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Can I ask why you're not completely comfortable with the word 'animal'? Do you not like being categorized, physically, with the rest of the animal kingdom? The word 'animal' isn't a measurement of spiritual significance. It describes certain physiological traits.
I am uncomfortable with it because of how I've seen it used elsewhere -- by atheistic behaviorists in particular. However, (duh) I have to concede that we humans share much with the rest of God's creation.
 
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theIdi0t

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That sounds nice, but I would dispute it. Both God and I are well aware that I am a horrible sinner, saved only by His grace and the incredible gift of Jesus.

However -- mankind is also special. The Scriptures talk about us being made in the image of God. There is a natural level of respect and glory in what God has made in mankind. Yes, we are fallen - but we are also special, not just in His sight, but in our very natures.

I think the problem here is that you are using a word that I don't believe even scripture supports, and that is the word special. You have to define it first. If is you say that we are different from other animals because God reveals himself in us, and because we have the capacity for spiritual / moral reflection and growth, than I don't think a single person here will argue that we are not special in this regard, but in any other regard we are not special, we are but dust and ashes, the same lot as the beast.
 
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Dannager

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I am uncomfortable with it because of how I've seen it used elsewhere -- by atheistic behaviorists in particular. However, (duh) I have to concede that we humans share much with the rest of God's creation.
You can't let people who are trying to screw with language ruin language for you. Militant atheists do it, militant Christians do it. It's something you do if you want to seem right regardless of whether or not you're actually right.

It's like how the word "faith" gets used to refer to religious belief and methodological naturalism. Words have to be kept in line.
 
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laptoppop

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You can't let people who are trying to screw with language ruin language for you. Militant atheists do it, militant Christians do it. It's something you do if you want to seem right regardless of whether or not you're actually right.

It's like how the word "faith" gets used to refer to religious belief and methodological naturalism. Words have to be kept in line.
Amen.
 
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Mallon

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Is humankind special -- made in the image of God, or nothing more than another animal?
The Bible makes it pretty clear that we are like the animals. Gluadys already pointed to Ecc 3:18, but I would add Psalm 49:12 to the list.
We are set apart, of course, as Genesis makes clear. But it has little to do with our actual physical make-up, and everything to do with the spirituality God implanted in us. There is more to being made in God's image than having a beard, wearing sandals, and carrying a staff!
 
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Galle

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You can't let people who are trying to screw with language ruin language for you. Militant atheists do it, militant Christians do it. It's something you do if you want to seem right regardless of whether or not you're actually right.
Actually, I don't think it's something done by militant anyone. In the case of "animal", it might be a misunderstanding or it might be a deliberate fallacy. "Animal" has several definitions, but the two relevant ones are (from dictionary.com) "any member of the kingdom Animalia..." and "an inhuman person; brutish or beastlike person". If we're having a discussion on humans' relation to other organisms, then the first definition is clearly the one being used. The problem occurs when the second definition gets mixed up, either deliberately or accidentally. An example of deliberate misuse is the following argument:

- I am ethical and compassionate and not brutish
- Therefore I am not an animal
- Since I am not an animal, I must therefore be set apart from other multicellular/responsive/heterotrophic (etc.) eukaryotes.

This is the fallacy of equivocation, whereby two or more definitions of a critical word are used interchangeably. A somewhat more humorous example:

- An old hotdog is better than nothing
- Nothing is better than an expertly-cooked steak
- Therefore, an old hotdog is better than an expertly-cooked steak

It's like how the word "faith" gets used to refer to religious belief and methodological naturalism. Words have to be kept in line.
"Faith" is another excellent example of a word that's often used in arguments that are fallacious due to equivocation. Apologists often use the "confidence or trust in a person or thing" or "belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc." definitions interchangeably with the "belief that is not based on proof" or "a system of religious belief" definitions. An example:

- You trust your family to do the right thing
- Therefore you have faith
- I believe that the Earth is the center of the universe, not due to any observation, but due to my religious beliefs. In other words, due to faith.
- Since you have faith, it is completely hypocritical of you to criticize me for my faith.

Yet another example germane to the C/E discussion is the use of theory. Scientists use it one way, and creationists often equivocate that to "guess or hunch" in order to claim that "evolution is just a theory".

In my opinion, it's not a matter of using new definitions or self-defining words so much as it is a matter of being as clear as possible in what you're trying to communicate.
 
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Assyrian

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However, (duh) I have to concede that we humans share much with the rest of God's creation.
Nice, wonderful and amazing even, to see such agreement over what is potentially such a thorny issue. It makes a refreshing change.

I had a quick look at the way man is classified/described in the Genesis accounts. It is actually quite surprising.

In Gen 2:7 man is described as a living soul, chai nephesh. But chai is the same word used in Gen 1 to describe beasts of the earth and in Gen 2 beasts of the field. Chai nephesh is used in Gen 1:20&21 to describe the living creatures in the sea and in verse 24 and 30 for every living creatures on earth. In Gen 2:19 chai nephesh is used to describe all the living creatures Adam named.

Genesis seems quite happy to describe people with the same label it uses for other animal. Come to think of it, the word animal (from the Latin anima: breath or soul) is not such a bad translation chai nephesh.
 
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crawfish

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I would think that if God meant us to be considered totally apart from the animals, He would have given us our own day. Science tells us we share too much DNA commonality to deny this.

However, we are the only animals that are given "the image of God". This quote from Nahum M. Sarna's "Understanding Genesis" is a good explanation of what that implies:

Understanding Genesis said:
The Bible's concept of the divine image in man thus constitutes another revolutionary break with its contemporary world. The pagan bond between man and nature has been severed once and for all. No longer is man a creature of blind forces, helplessly at the mercy of the inexorable rhythms and cycles of nature. On the contrary, he is now a being possessed of dignity, purpose, freedom and tremendous power.
 
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