ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

[1stcenturylady]

You missed the whole point of what will be taking place during the 1,000 years.

That is future. Don't you want to live in God's rest now? The Millennium hasn't even started yet. I'm more interested in living my life in God's rest today.

 

[Bluecomet]

If

That is future. Don't you want to live in God's rest now? The Millennium hasn't even started yet. I'm more interested in living my life in God's rest today.

Do you know what is going to happen to the people that hasn't been given a chance for salvation now?

 

[1stcenturylady]

If

Do you know what is going to happen to the people that hasn't been given a chance for salvation now?

Yes, I do. What has that got to do with now, or are you just going to live your life any way you please now?

 

[Bluecomet]

You didn't understand my question.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You didn't understand my question.

Maybe. But no more than you understood my answers.

 

[corinth77777]

@corinth77777 continuing let's look now are HEBERWS 3-4

HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4. These chapters also link very nicely into PSLAMS 95 if you have some time to read it but we will not touch on PSALMS 95 in this post.

For this post let's look at HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 and within Chapter and Scripture context highlighting what the scriptures are saying...

HEBREWS 3
8, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9, When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10, Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11, So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12, Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14, For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end;
15, While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16, For some, when they had heard, did provoke: however, not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17, But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
18, And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19, So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

..............

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 3

v8-10 God's people in the winderness erred and hardened their hearts not knowing God's ways
v11 Because they hardened their hearts not knowing God's way God was angry and did not let them enter HIS REST
v13 Hardness of heart comes from the deceitfulness of SIN (breaking God's LAW)
v19 God's people did not enter into God's REST because of UNBELIEF

..............

WHAT IS HIS (God's) REST IN HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 4
1, Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2, For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3, For we which have believed do enter into REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4, For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did REST the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my REST.

God's REST is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5). Those who BELIEVE GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD does on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. This is a direct reference to GENESIS 2:1-3 to God's REST on the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week (please GENESIS 2:1-3)

6, Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7, Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8, For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9, There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.
10, For he that is entered into his REST (SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11, Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

..............

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4

v1-5 God's promised rest is from BELIEVING the GOSPEL (Word of God) and links directly to God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST from creation in GENESIS 2:1-3
v6 None enter into God's REST without BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD
v6-7 (see Heb 3:13) If we harden out heart by SIN and UNBELIEF we cannot enter God's REST through the Gospel
v-7-8 The true rest of the Gospel of Christ is the other rest spoken of another day in David (Psalms 95)
v9 God's people (those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD) have HIS SABBATH REST (God's REST) Sabbatismos

..............

CONCLUSION: Hebrews 3 and HEBREWS 4 is saying ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD enter into the Gospel rest and only those who enter the Gospel rest enter into God's 4th commandment's SABBATH REST

Look forward to talking with you more Brother Corinth

Ok....but what did I miss....?

 

[Bluecomet]

Your answers had nothing to do with the subject that we were talking about.

 

[Soyeong]

So, yeah, like a bank has consistent lending policies, so it will have 90% of the same boilerplate in contracts between two different customers.

I don't see what point you're trying to make of that, except maybe trying to say, somehow, that "which covenant" doesn't matter and therefore Christians must continue with Mosaic Law practices.

God's righteousness is either eternal or it is not, there is no such thing as being 90% eternal. If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness changes at all, then it is not eternal, but God's righteousness and all of His righteousness laws are eternal (Psalms 119:142, 160), therefore any instructions that God has given to how to act in accordance with His righteous a part of the Mosaic Covenant will also be valid regardless of which covenant we are under. So while there are distinctions between God's covenants, those distinctions are not in regard to God's eternal Law, which means that we should still follow it under the New Covenant in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

 

[Soyeong]

I agree. However, it is more than just the Spirit leading us rather than the written code. What else did the Spirit do? You've left off the most important point. What was nailed to the cross? Hint: Romans 7 tells us what the real problem was.

In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Law.

Whenever someone was crucified, they would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This works as a perfect analogy for the list of the sins that we have committed being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins.

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's Law and served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, which caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do, and which he served with his flesh, so the problem was the law of sin.

 

[JLB777]

Any SDA Sabbath folks care to provide the scriptures where Jesus instructed the Church as to how to specifically observe the Sabbath under the new covenant.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9





This would certainly be included in the doctrine of Christ.


JLB

 

[Soyeong]

Any SDA Sabbath folks care to provide the scriptures where Jesus instructed the Church as to how to specifically observe the Sabbath under the new covenant.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9





This would certainly be included in the doctrine of Christ.


JLB

I'm not SDA. For starters, Jesus was not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, so we should not need any of the Father's laws to be repeated by Jesus in order for us to know that we should still obey the Father. In John 6:38, Jesus said that he came only to do the Father's will, in John 12:49, Jesus only said what the Father commanded him to say, and in John 14:24, Jesus said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so he did not teach his own commandments, but rather he taught the same commandments that the Father taught to Moses.

Jesus was sinless, which means that he set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which means that he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, including keeping the Sabbath throughout his ministry, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:3-6), and to be imitators of him (1 Corinthians 11:1). Furthermore, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent form our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17, 23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, repenting from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law is an integral part of the Gospel message, including repenting from breaking the Sabbath, which means that Jesus taught obedience to the Mosaic Law both by word and by example. I don't see a good reason to think that the New Covenant involves refusing to follow what Jesus taught by word or by example. In addition, Jesus taught how to keep the Sabbath though his interactions with the Pharisees on that topic, such as in Matthew 12:1-13).

The Sabbath is a precious gift from God given for His people's own good and to bless us, so even if we weren't commanded to keep the Sabbath, then we should still seek out the privilege and the delight of getting to keep it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Law.

Whenever someone was crucified, they would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This works as a perfect analogy for the list of the sins that we have committed being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins.

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's Law and served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, which caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do, and which he served with his flesh, so the problem was the law of sin.

Excellent. Yes, it wasn't the eternal law that was nailed to the cross as some believe so we could keep on sinning with no punishment; it was our sin nature - the factory that pumped out sin. We died to sin, and are resurrected with Christ. We rest in Christ and His Spirit by faith, and all we did was repent. He did the rest. We are no longer in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God is in us, and if the Spirit of Christ is not in us, we do not belong to Him.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Jesus taught how to keep the Sabbath though his interactions with the Pharisees on that topic,

Jesus was not subordinate to the Sabbath. No. Jesus was Lord even of the Sabbath Matthew 12:8. The one thing we will disagree on is the Sabbath. The Sabbath wasn't an eternal law, as it wasn't in heaven before the foundation of the world. It is the eternal laws of righteousness and holiness that are written on our hearts. They are the Royal Law. To love God with all your heart, mind and strength, and love your neighbor. The Ten Commandments are based on the Royal Law, but are not the laws, themselves, that are written on our conscience. They just don't go deep enough for true righteousness, but are merely affecting our actions, but not the motives of our heart.

Like many things in the Mosaic Law such as feast days and holy convocations, they all point to Jesus. One such Mosaic holy convocation was added to the commandments (the 4th) as the sign of the covenant. [We have a new sign of the New Covenant, thus making the old sign obsolete, just as circumcision (the sign of the Abrahamic covenant) was made obsolete when circumcision went from physical to spiritual.] So how is the Sabbath day a foreshadow of Jesus. First, Jesus is the Creator. But you find more on that in Hebrews 4 on God's rest. The Sabbath went from a physical day to a spiritual state of grace. To enter into God's rest is to enter into God's grace with Jesus as our High Priest.

16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

It is no longer the letter of the law, but Jesus is the Spirit of the law that we rest in daily spiritually, not once a week physically as a mere example in school.

 

[SolomonVII]

The Ten Commandments, or some reasonable facsimile, are what make civilized life possible in this world.
The Ten Commandments do not save us to eternal life, but life outside of the parameters set by the ten commandments would be something that would make salvation to eternal life as the worse of all curses.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Ten Commandments, or some reasonable facsimile, are what make civilized life possible in this world.
The Ten Commandments do not save us to eternal life, but life outside of the parameters set by the ten commandments would be something that would make salvation to eternal life as the worse of all curses.

Hi SolomanVII nice to meet you here .

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Absolutely. Imagine a world with no 10 Commandments were everyone is free to lie, steal and kill each other? How some think God's LAW is abolsihed amazes me as there is no scripture support for this teaching. It is a confused doctrine that does not know the OLD COVENANT and how it relates to the NEW.

May god bless you as you seek him through his Word

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ok....but what did I miss....?

A lot. Highlighted in red.

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9], There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

................

INTERLINEAR HEBREWS 4:9

αρα απολειπεται σαββατισμος τω λαω του θεου
So then there remains a Sabbath rest to the people - of God

................

Parallel translations of HEBREWS 4:9

New International Version
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

English Standard Version
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

Berean Study Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Berean Literal Bible
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

New American Standard Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

International Standard Version
There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God to keep,

NET Bible
Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.

New Heart English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

New American Standard 1977
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

American Standard Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Darby Bible Translation
There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

English Revised Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Weymouth New Testament
It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

World English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Young's Literal Translation
there doth remain, then, a Sabbatic rest to the people of God,

................

continuing...

[10], For he that is entered into his rest (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11], Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

Yep lots of scripture here showing that if you do not enter into God's Gospel rest you cannot enter his SABBATH REST. v 1-4 is the context of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH confirmed in v9-11

Hebrews 3-4 is talking about the Gospel and the keeping of God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD.

There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God. Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief v9-11. HEBREWS 4 supports the keeping of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by believing and following the Word of God.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Sabbath was a foreshadow of Jesus, like it or not.

Yet here you are not able to show a single scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is a Shadow law or can you provide a single scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath? Just speaking your own words over Gods WORD does not make God's WORD disappear. We should believe and follow the WORD of GOD over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi expos4ever, nice to see you again. Some comments for your consideration below.

You appear (from this post and others) to interpret Galatians 3 in what I believe is a highly unorthodox manner. More specifically, you appear to think that each one of us as individuals, even in this "New Covenant" era are are led to Christ by the tutoring of the Law of Moses. But that is clearly not what Paul is saying.

Not really, God's WORD is very clear on the subject no need for any confusion here. I guess if you believe God's LAW is ABOLISHED then it would be unothodox in your view to believe that God's LAW (10 Commandments) has a role and purpose in the NEW COVENANT promise of LOVE. God's WORD does not teach God's 10 Commandments is abolished. This is a view held by some who do not understand the OLD COVENANT laws and what they point to in the NEW COVENANT.

Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is [aa]based on law, it is no longer [ab]based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

Correct me if I am wrong about your interpretation of the scriptures above. You seem to be making another strawman argument that no one is talking about. Who has said to you that God's LAW nullifiers the NEW COVENANT promise or that salvation is the inheritance of the LAW?

19 Why the Law then? It was added [ac]because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the [ad]agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20 Now a mediator is not [ae]for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness [af]would indeed have been [ag]based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up [ah]everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

[19] Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now careful here brother. What law is being referred to in v19, God's LAW (10 Commandments or the Shadow laws for remission of sin from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT?

What law was ordained by Angels in the hand of a mediator [μεσίτης GREEK means A GO BETWEEN]? God's 10 Commandments were not given by Angels in the hands of a mediator (go between). God's 10 Commandments were spoken by God himself to his people and written by God alone on two tables of stone.

The BOOK OF THE COVENANT and the laws for remission of sin however was written and spoken by MOSES [Mediator] as directed by God through Angels

In the OLD COVENANT when someone sinned (broke any of God's 10 Commandments) in order to recieve FORGIVENESS of their sins they had to provide sin offerings to GOD [Leviticus 16].

These laws for remission of sin were from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT not the 10 Commandments. Many of the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT for remission of sin were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus as our true offering for SIN and God's plan of salvation under the NEW COVENANT. God's 10 Commandments were not ordained through Angels and given in the hands of a mediator

[19] ...until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Another words the sin offereings were to continue until the seed should come. The seed is to the promise to Abraham and his seed representing Christ to which all the sin offerings pointed to from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

When Jesus died for our sins the temple curtain was torn in two, meaning no more sin offerings. "Until the seed should come" All the sin offerings were fullfilled and pointed to Jesus as the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

..............

NOW WE HAVE COVERED V17-22 LETS LOOK AT GALATIANS 3:23-25 VERSE BY VERSE

..............

[23], But before faith came, we were kept UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

v23, says before faith has come it says we were kept "UNDER THE LAW", shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE "UNDER THE LAW"?

ROMANS 3:19-20 [19], Now we know that WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW: THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: FOR SIN IT THE TRANGRESSION OF THE LAW.

[ANSWER] So to be "UNDER THE LAW" in this case means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW (sin). FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN and this is what God's LAW teaches us. That we are all sinners in need of a Saviour
..............

[24], Therefore the law was our schoolmaster [GREEK παιδαγωγός means tutor; instructor; teacher; schoolmaster] to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

v24 the GREEK word used for your versions rendition of guardian [I do not know how they get that translation]. The KJV is Schoolmaster which is a better translation to the original GREEK word used which is παιδαγωγός which means tutor; instructor; teacher; schoolmaster.

So v24 says that the LAW was our TEACHER, TUTOR, SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by FAITH.

SO WE ASK THE QUESTION, WHAT DOES THE LAW TEACH US?

We touched on it earlier...

ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

[ANSWER] v23 and v24 says being "UNDER THE LAW" means to be guilty before God of SIN. God's LAW is TEACHING US what SIN is. GOD'S LAW teaches us by giving us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. God's LAW shows us that we are all sinners in need of a Savior. THE LAW is our TEACHER, TUTOR, SCHOOLMASTER that teachers us that we are sinners it gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and BRINGS US TO CHRIST that we might be justified by FAITH.

This is the purpose of God's LAW in the Gospel. It teacher us that we are all sinners in need of a Savior that we might be justified by Faith.

* IF there is NO LAW then we have no KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is (NO TEACHER, SCHOOLMASTER)
* IF we have no KNOWLEDGE of SIN we do not KNOW that we are all sinners in need of a Savior.
* IF we have no need of a Savior then we have no Salvation.
* If we have no Salvation then we are all lost because we are still in our sins and the scripture is fulfilled

ROMANS 3:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

So v14 God's LAW is our TEACHER that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and lead us to Christ that we might be justified by FAITH.

..............

[25], But after faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [GREEK παιδαγωγός means tutor; instructor; teacher; schoolmaster]

Final section then we will tie it all together.

v25 NOW when FAITH has COME we are no longer UNDER THE LAW, TEACHER, TUTOR, SCHOOLMASTER

WHEN FAITH IS COME WHY ARE WE NO LOGER "UNDER THE LAW" TEACHER?

[ANSWER] Because the purpose of the LAW is to bring us to show us we are all sinners in need of a Savior. It brings us to Christ that we might be justified by FAITH. When we have FAITH in God's WORD we have FORGIVENESS. We are no longer GUILTY and CONDEMNED by the LAW, THE BLOOD of CHRIST Cleanses US from ALL SIN. No longer being guilty we are no longer UNDER THE LAW BEING CONDEMNED by it.

..............

CONCLUSION: Galatians 3:23-25 does not say God's LAW (10 Commandments) are ABOLISHED. The scriptures say when FAITH has come we are no longer "UNDER THE LAW" as a schoolmaster; teacher or tutor that show us our sins because we have been forgiven our sins by faith in the precious blood of Christ.

Now, I know you are forced to say - since you clearly can't deny that Paul says we are no longer under the Law - that Paul means we are no longer under the judgement / condemnation of the Law, but still are obligated to follow it as a prescriptive code.

Not really. You have seen me post on this subject in another thread. It is PAUL and God's WORD that defines what PAUL is talking about in relation to being "UNDER THE LAW" not me. I have only provided the scriptures.

Let's go through it slowly together maybe it will help if we go through the scriptures a little slower, sorry I thought you understood the context of these scriptures.

Let's start from v8-18 These scriptures show the context...

ROMANS 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
]11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.

The context of v19-20 is that we are all sinners none are rightoues no not one v9 ALL ARE UNDER SIN, all have broken God's LAW because sin is breaking God's LAW (1 John 3:4; James 2:11; Romans 7:7)

ROMANS 3:19-20
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Now v19, in connection with the Context of v9-18 is summing up what has been previously said saying that those who are "UNDER THE LAW" are those who are GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW v9 confirms this saying both JEWS and GENTILES are ALL UNDER SIN, which means we are all GUILTY before GOD of breaking God's LAW. v19

[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Now how is all this so? WHY? PAUL is saying in v20 FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.

So YEP... to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19-20 means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking it and both JEW and GENTILE are guilty before GOD and need a Saviour.

That is a huuuuuge stretch, methinks. Paul have to be a very poor writer to say we are no longer "under a law", or worse as per Romans 7, that we no longer "serve the oldness of the letter of the Law" if we are really still obligated to follow it. No reasonably competent writer would say "you no longer serve the oldness of the Letter of the Law" and really mean "yes, in fact, you still need to follow the letter of the Law, you are just no longer condemned by it".

Your post makes no sense when viewed in the light of God's WORD when your trying to teach God's 10 Commandments are Abolished. This has been shown in this post with supporting scripture.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As the other poster points out, I believe you are ignoring context. Check this out:

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are [h]under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,.....

This, again, is an historical argument - but now, that is in this present time of the Messiah's arrival - things have changed. There is a lot more evidence that Paul is describing a transition from an old covenant, where indeed the Law revealed sin, to a new one (no time now to get into that).

Paul uses the "but now" for a reason - when someone writes in the following format:

X, but now Y

...the "but now" is a clear signal that X is now "out of date".

Paul knows what he is doing - he is a very careful writer and the "but now" must be taken into account.

No not at all. Let's look at all the supporting chapter scriptures verse by verse. This was posted elsewhere by clearly show both the within scripture and chapter CONTEXT.

Let's go through it slowly together maybe it will help if we go through the scriptures a little slower, sorry I thought you understood the context of these scriptures.

Let's start from v8-18 These scriptures show the context...

ROMANS 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
]11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.

The context of v19-20 is that we are all sinners none are rightoues no not one v9 ALL ARE UNDER SIN, all have broken God's LAW because sin is breaking God's LAW (1 John 3:4; James 2:11; Romans 7:7)

ROMANS 3:19-20
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Now v19, in connection with the Context of v9-18 is summing up what has been previously said saying that those who are "UNDER THE LAW" are those who are GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW v9 confirms this saying both JEWS and GENTILES are ALL UNDER SIN, which means we are all GUILTY before GOD of breaking God's LAW. v19

[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Now how is all this so? WHY? PAUL is saying in v20 FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.

So YEP... to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19-20 means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking it and both JEW and GENTILE are guilty before GOD and need a Saviour.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You do know don't you that LGW already has his own take on Hebrews 4. You'll have to show him what you mean, though attempts to change his mind have failed in the past.

Not really 1stcenturylady, what makes you think that you have to change my mind?

You have no scripture for your position in relation to God's 4th Commandment being a shadow of anything as it was made by God before sin when mankind was in perfect harmony with God.

Sorry 1stcenturylady, there is no scripture that teaches that Jesus is a Sabbath. It is God's WORD that teaches that God's 4th Commandments is the SEVENTH DAY of the week and it is God alone that has set the SEVENTH DAY of the week apart and has commanded his people to keep it as a HOLY day (GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-12).

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken. God's WORD says if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-11).

All those who CONTINUE to practice KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM (Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:3-4; Romans 2:6-13; Hebrews 6:4-8)

Hope this helps