ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 29, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello LGW.

You made the following statement.

I disagree with this statement of yours.

I believe that the Jews were under the entire law. Hence, whether they had broken a law or not, they were still under that law anyway.

Think of this example, the law says, you shall not speed on the road. Regardless of whether you obey the speed limit or not, you are still bound by all the road laws.

Hello David,

Keeping the conversation in context you said...

klutedavid said:
klutedavid said: ↑ If it is not a shadow law, then you are under that law, LGW.

My response was...

Not really David. Your only under the law if you stand guilty before God of breaking it [SIN] *ROMANS 3:19-20; ROMANS 2:12-13. Love is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31. If you have been FORGIGVEN for your sins through REPENTANCE *ACTS 2:38; CONFESSION and FAITH *PROVERBS 28:13; 1 JOHN 5:4. Then you are no longer under the condemnation of the law and are free to walk in God's Spirit *ROMANS 8:1-4. If you are really walking in God's Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh [knowingly break God's LAW] *GALATIANS 5:16.

So how is breaking God's law mean being under "UNDER THE LAW" according to God's WORD? Let's look at what the scriptures teach in ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3.

ROMANS 3:9-20
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTOUESS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13[, Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

NOTE: Let's start with v9 which is the CONTEXT. This shows your interpretation of the scriptures is not a correct one brother. It cannot be applicable to just the JEWS because the CONTEXT of v19 in v9 is that BOTH JEW AND GREEK ARE ALL UNDER SIN. Paul says he proved this earlier. WHERE did he prove that BOTH JEWS and GREEKS are ALL UNDER SIN?

............

Let's have a look where Paul proved ealier that both JEWS and GENTILES are all "UNDER SIN" therefore condemoned by the law or as 3v19 says "UNDER THE LAW"

ROMANS 2:6-29
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7], To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
[8], But to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9], Tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[10], But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

ROMANS 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN

PAUL proved this earlier in ROMANS 2:6-13. Where he shows that both JEWS AND GENTILES ARE ALL UNDER SIN and stand guilty before God of breaking his LAW.

ALL are under sin 3v9. None are righteous no not one 3v10. Context..

ROMANS 2:21-29 [21],

[21], You therefore which teach another, teach you not yourself? you that preach a man should not steal, do you steal?

[22], You that say a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? you that abhor idols, do you commit sacrilege?

[23], You that make your boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor you God?

[24], For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

[25], For circumcision truly profits, if you keep the law: but if you be a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.

NOTE: How is your circumcision made uncircumcision? By breaking the 10 commandments!

[26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

[27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?

[28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So it is very clear that when PAUL writes ROMANS 3:19-20...

ROMANS 3:19-20 [19],
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

NOTE ROMANS 3:19-20 is in reference to the 10 commandments giving us a knowledge of what sin is. If we break it wheather we are Jew or Gentile we are "UNDER THE LAW" because we are condemoned by it. PAUL emphasizes this further in ROMANS 7..

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

NOTE: Paul says he did not know what sin was but by the law. This is what he said earlier in ROMANS 3:20 when he said that it is by God's LAW that we have a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. The law defined here is specified as the 10 Commandments as highlighted in Romans 2:4-29 and Romans 3:9-20 which specifies as examples in ROMANS 2:21-23 giving examples of stealing, adultery and Idol worship quoting the 10 commandments from Exodus 20:4-5; 14-14. Romans 7:7 is continuing this same thought by quoting the tenth commandment of you shall not covet as an example of sin if broken from Exodus 20:17.

So the law referenced here that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of sin, is indeed referring to the 10 Commandments (not nine as you teach) and not the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (Exodus 24:7) for remission of sin.

.................

Now that CONTEXT has been established in ROMANS 2:6-13 and ROMANS 3:9-20. Let's look at the scriptures again and see what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19.

ROMANS 3:19 [19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Who does PAUL say is "UNDER THE LAW" both JEW AND GENTILE because BOTH JEW AND GENTILE stand guilty before GOD of breaking it (Romans 2:6-13). Both JEW and GENTILES are all under SIN there is none good no not one (Romans 3:9; Romans 3:10)

.................

CONCLUSION: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3?
To be "UNDER THE LAW" in this case means EVERONE both Jew and gentile stand GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW (SIN). FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN (Romans 3:20) and this is what God's LAW teaches us, that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour

.................

Hope this helps brother.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 29, 2018

4meta said:
That can definitely be a new conversation thread. The Catholic natural moral law & the positive divine law VS God's commandments is a very interesting comparison. I was amazed about what I had learned while making this comparison. I'm far from done and it has been an ongoing exercise for myself. I look forward to Dave B's answer.

Hi 4meta, great to meet you here. Thanks for your thoughts. The question though is, does any one have the right to change God's Law?

klutedavid · Sep 29, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello David,

Keeping the conversation in context you said...

My response was...

So how is breaking God's law mean being under "UNDER THE LAW" according to God's WORD? Let's look at what the scriptures teach in ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3.

ROMANS 3:9-20
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTOUESS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13[, Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

NOTE: Let's start with v9 which is the CONTEXT. This shows your interpretation of the scriptures is not a correct one brother. It cannot be applicable to just the JEWS because the CONTEXT of v19 in v9 is that BOTH JEW AND GREEK ARE ALL UNDER SIN. Paul says he proved this earlier. WHERE did he prove that BOTH JEWS and GREEKS are ALL UNDER SIN?

............

Let's have a look where Paul proved ealier that both JEWS and GENTILES are all "UNDER SIN" therefore condemoned by the law or as 3v19 says "UNDER THE LAW"

ROMANS 2:6-29
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7], To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
[8], But to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9], Tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[10], But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

ROMANS 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN

PAUL proved this earlier in ROMANS 2:6-13. Where he shows that both JEWS AND GENTILES ARE ALL UNDER SIN and stand guilty before God of breaking his LAW.

ALL are under sin 3v9. None are righteous no not one 3v10. Context..

ROMANS 2:21-29 [21],

[21], You therefore which teach another, teach you not yourself? you that preach a man should not steal, do you steal?

[22], You that say a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? you that abhor idols, do you commit sacrilege?

[23], You that make your boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor you God?

[24], For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

[25], For circumcision truly profits, if you keep the law: but if you be a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.

NOTE: How is your circumcision made uncircumcision? By breaking the 10 commandments!

[26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

[27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?

[28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So it is very clear that when PAUL writes ROMANS 3:19-20...

ROMANS 3:19-20 [19],
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

NOTE ROMANS 3:19-20 is in reference to the 10 commandments giving us a knowledge of what sin is. If we break it wheather we are Jew or Gentile we are "UNDER THE LAW" because we are condemoned by it. PAUL emphasizes this further in ROMANS 7..

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

NOTE: Paul says he did not know what sin was but by the law. This is what he said earlier in ROMANS 3:20 when he said that it is by God's LAW that we have a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. The law defined here is specified as the 10 Commandments as highlighted in Romans 2:4-29 and Romans 3:9-20 which specifies as examples in ROMANS 2:21-23 giving examples of stealing, adultery and Idol worship quoting the 10 commandments from Exodus 20:4-5; 14-14. Romans 7:7 is continuing this same thought by quoting the tenth commandment of you shall not covet as an example of sin if broken from Exodus 20:17.

So the law referenced here that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of sin, is indeed referring to the 10 Commandments (not nine as you teach) and not the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (Exodus 24:7) for remission of sin.

.................

Now that CONTEXT has been established in ROMANS 2:6-13 and ROMANS 3:9-20. Let's look at the scriptures again and see what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19.

ROMANS 3:19 [19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Who does PAUL say is "UNDER THE LAW" both JEW AND GENTILE because BOTH JEW AND GENTILE stand guilty before GOD of breaking it (Romans 2:6-13). Both JEW and GENTILES are all under SIN there is none good no not one (Romans 3:9; Romans 3:10)

.................

CONCLUSION: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3?
To be "UNDER THE LAW" in this case means EVERONE both Jew and gentile stand GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW (SIN). FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN (Romans 3:20) and this is what God's LAW teaches us, that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour

.................

Hope this helps brother.

Thanks for your reply.

Your interpretation is unsound.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

The scripture declares that Gentiles did not have the law. Paul told you twice in that verse above, that the Gentiles did not have the law.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 29, 2018

klutedavid said:
Thanks for your reply.

Your interpretation is unsound.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

The scripture declares that Gentiles did not have the law. Paul told you twice in that verse above, that the Gentiles did not have the law.

Hello David, you are free to believe as you wish I do not judge you. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. The scriptures provided to you in post # 821 linked click me, are very clear.

You choose not to believe them because they go against your interpretation of the scriptures. The CONTEXT and topic of conversation of ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3 is that both Jews and GENTILES are all under the law because all have sinned and broken it and are condemned by the law as sinners. Sorry brother David God's WORD disagrees with you.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

klutedavid · Sep 29, 2018

Once again LGW, thanks for your reply.

What the scripture states is what matters, not what you believe the scripture tells us.

You choose not to believe them because they go against your interpretation of the scriptures.

In black and white.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

The CONTEXT and topic of conversation of ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3 is that both Jews and GENTILES are all under the law

The scripture does not say that LGW, 'all are under the law'. The scripture says, all are under sin.

Romans 3:9
...both Jews and Greeks are all under sin...

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law

If the Gentiles were under the law they would know what sin was. The Gentiles did not know anything about sin, because they did not have the law. The Jews knew what sin was all about, because they had the law.

Any further assistance you need LGW, feel free to ask.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 29, 2018

klutedavid said:
Once again LGW, thanks for your reply. What the scripture states is what matters, not what you believe the scripture tells us.

Yet here you are disagreeing with the scriptures neither do you make any attempt to reply to post # 821 linked click me which is all scripture showing the CONTEXT and SUBJECT MATTER of ROMANS 3:19-29 which is that both Jews and GENTILES are all under the law because all have sinned and broken it and are condemned by the law as sinners. Sorry brother David God's WORD disagrees with you.

klutedavid said:
In black and white. Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves. The scripture does not say that LGW, 'all are under the law'. The scripture says, all are under sin.

Why are you discussing a scripture that is not referenced to ROMANS 3:19. The whole of post # 821 linked click me, revolves around showing the CONTEXT and subject matter of ROMANS 3:19-20 in ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3 which is that both Jews and GENTILES are all under the law because all have sinned and broken it and are condemned by the law as sinners.

ROMANS 3:19-20
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW [WHY?]: THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED [Jew and Gentile], AND ALL THE WORLD [Jew and Gentile] MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD [Why? v9 ALL ARE UNDER SIN; Jew and Gentile]. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

ROMANS 2:14 is discussing OBEDIENCE to the law as a matter of not being under it. The CONTEXT of ROMANS 2:14 is the rewards for OBEDIENCE and DISOBEDIENCE for both Jews and Gentiles and that God is no respecter of persons (Jews and Gentiles). *ROMANS 2:1-11

Sorry Dave God's WORD disagrees with you.

1stcenturylady · Sep 30, 2018

Exodus 34:28
So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 30, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Exodus 34:28
So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Hello 1stcenturylady, and welcome back from your holiday. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is? Seems like you are only providing half the story in the scripture you have provided here. What else makes up the OLD COVENANT in your view?

1stcenturylady · Sep 30, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello 1stcenturylady, and welcome back from your holiday. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is? Seems like you are only providing half the story in the scripture you have provided here. What else makes up the OLD COVENANT in your view?

Besides the Mosaic laws, if you think the Ten Commandments are not part of the old covenant you are mistaken.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 30, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
If you think the Ten Commandments are not part of the old covenant you are mistaken.

Who said they are not a part of the OLD COVENANT. Is that all there was to the OLD COVENANT? If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is? Seems like you are only providing half the story in the scripture you have provided here. What else makes up the OLD COVENANT in your view? You did not answer the question.

1stcenturylady · Sep 30, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Who said they are not a part of the OLD COVENANT. Is that all there was to the OLD COVENANT? If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is? Seems like you are only providing half the story in the scripture you have provided here. What else makes up the OLD COVENANT in your view? You did not answer the question.

I said, "besides the Mosaic laws,"...

LoveGodsWord · Oct 1, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
I said, "besides the Mosaic laws,"...

Yes the OLD COVENANT included both God's eternal law [10 commandments] and the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that made up the OLD COVENANT.

It is the Shadow laws from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant that are fulfilled in Christ that are done away because they point to Jesus as our true sacrifice for sins and his ministration as our great high priest on behalf in the HEAVENLY SANCTUARY under the NEW COVENANT.

In the OLD COVENANT both laws had a different purpose. God's eternal law written on stone is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSALMS 119:172. While the shadow laws for sin offerings from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT were provided if God's law was broken for remission [FORGIVENESS] of sins.

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OLD AND NEW COVENANT

The OLD COVENANT was written on two tables of stone [10 Commandments] *EXODUS 34:28 and included the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. The NEW COVENANT is written in the heart to LOVE in those who have been led by the letter of the law to the foot of the cross (Galatians 3:22-25; Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40) God's LAW on stone brings us to the NEW COVENANT in the SPIRIT (Galatians 3:22-25; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11; Hebrews 8:10-12; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-11). No more shadow laws of sin offering that pointed to Christ and God's plan of salvation under the NEW COVENANT

1stcenturylady · Oct 1, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes the OLD COVENANT included both God's eternal law [10 commandments] and the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that made up the OLD COVENANT.

It is the Shadow laws from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant that are fulfilled in Christ that are done away because they point to Jesus as our true sacrifice for sins and his ministration as our great high priest on behalf in the HEAVENLY SANCTUARY under the NEW COVENANT.

In the OLD COVENANT both laws had a different purpose. God's eternal law written on stone is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSALMS 119:172. While the shadow laws for sin offerings from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT were provided if God's law was broken for remission [FORGIVENESS] of sins.

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OLD AND NEW COVENANT

The OLD COVENANT was written on two tables of stone [10 Commandments] *EXODUS 34:28 and included the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. The NEW COVENANT is written in the heart to LOVE in those who have been led by the letter of the law to the foot of the cross (Galatians 3:22-25; Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40) God's LAW on stone brings us to the NEW COVENANT in the SPIRIT (Galatians 3:22-25; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11; Hebrews 8:10-12; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-11). No more shadow laws of sin offering that pointed to Christ and God's plan of salvation under the NEW COVENANT

Your view of the New Covenant has always seemed very limited to the Ten Commandments being written on our hearts.

What is the difference if the same ten laws are written on stone or on our hearts? What else do you know of that is in our New Covenant?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 1, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Your view of the New Covenant has always seemed very limited to the Ten Commandments being written on our hearts.

What is the difference if the same ten laws are written on stone or on our hearts? What else do you know of that is in our New Covenant?

Not at all. You misunderstand the purpose of God's LAW (10 commandments). God's eternal law written on stone is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSALMS 119:172 that leads us to Christ that we might be justified by faith and the ministration of the Spirit.

We are all only saved by grave through faith and not of ourselves. It is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8). The gospel however is the POWER of GOD unto salvation from sin to everyone who believes and follows God's WORD * ROMANS 1:16.

Jesus says They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick. I am not come to call the RIGHTEOUS but sinners to repentance, go learn what that means *MATTHEW 9:12-13.

Jesus says; IF you continue in my WORD then are you my disciples in deed and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free from sin *JOHN 8:31-36. This is the difference between those who have a FORM of godliness but deny the power of GOD and those who have righteousness by faith to walk in God's Spirit *2 TIMOTHY 3:5; GALATIANS 5:15.

This is why Jesus says truly, truly I say unto you unless a man in born again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven *JOHN 3:3-8. Those that are born again do not practice sin *1 JOHN 3:9. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have neither seen him wo know him *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6. This is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:9-10. Faith without works is dead *JAMES 2:18-20. True faith has the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's WORD *ROMANS 13:8-10 and is why we need a NEW HEART to LOVE which is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. LOVE IS THE FULFILLING of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and walk in his SPIRIT *ROMANS 13:9-10; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.

God's LAW only remains on letters of stone to all those who break it.

Doer not just hearer · Jul 11, 2019

Lost4words said:
Jesus didnt come to abolish the law. The 10 commandments still stand.

Correct. Moses Law (Spoken by God to Moses to write down and teach on parchment) ended at the cross whereas the 10 Commandments (Wrote by God's own finger on stone) are God's Eternal Moral Law which will last forever. 2 Separate set of Laws.

10 Commandments - Gods Laws in stone inside the Ark of the Covenant - FOREVER

marineimaging · Jul 13, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi all,

Some people are going around teaching that God's 10 Commandments are ABOLISHED and no longer a standard for Christian living. Yet the NEW TESTAMENT alone does not teach this at all.

1 JOHN 2:1-4
[1], MY LITTLE CHILDREN, THESE THINGS, I WRITE UNTO YOU THE YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
[4], HE THAT SAYS, I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive from the NT alone)

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Pet 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Pet 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Pet 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Pet 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Pet 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Pet 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Pet 3:5-14)

I see some people do not know what made up the OLD COVENANT laws and their purpose in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT and therefore think God's LAW has been abolished when it is only th SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not God's ETERNAL LAW that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4)

CAN'T HAVE A GOSPEL WITHOUT THE LAW

I believe the role of God's LAW is to give us a KNOLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. Nothing more and nothing less. They are our duty of LOVE to God and man. They show us that all we can do without Jesus is sin and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour.

*If God's LAW is ABOLSHED then we no longer have any KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.
*If we have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is and that we are sinners we ahve no need of a Saviour
*If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no Salvation
*If we have no Salavtion then we are still in our sins and the scriputure is fulfilled...

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

My thoughts is that we are NOT SAVED by God's 10 Commandments. Their purpose is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and to lead us to the Cross so that we might be justified by faith (Galatains 3:23-24). The ROLE of God's LAW is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172; James 2:11 Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). In the NEW COVENANT God's LAW is to be written on our hearts as we are born again to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 3:3-10; John 3:3)

OPEN FOR FRIENDLY CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION.

What are your thoughts? ARE God's 10 Commandments ABOLISHED like some think and no longer the standard for Christian living?

May God bless you as we seek him through his WORD

Wow. Your dissertation is very, very commendable. One suggestion I can make is to consider changing "I think" to "The Bible says". Because what we think is really irrelevant. All that matters is what comes from God's breathed inspirational truths and you did such a good job of highlighting God's word. Then, you took it on your own shoulders with "What I think..." I say this out of Love and because I used to do that myself. What I think is of no consequence. It is what God thinks as was written in His word that matters. God bless your work there, friend.

ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

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