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It is understood and documented well. Its referred to as an auditory hallucination.Have you ever heard new stories where the offender, states they were told to kill someone?
People do hear voices telling them to do certain things. Not sure whether this phenomenon is understood by the medical world.
Indeed they do.
On the contrary - it has grown. They are the "god of this world"
2 Cor 4: 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this world has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them
The TV, Movies, Video games, drugs, porn, music, culture... total apathy in the population and downright hatred of Christians in the entertainment and political environments. His power is ten fold. maybe 100 fold.
Have you ever heard new stories where the offender, states they were told to kill someone?
People do hear voices telling them to do certain things. Not sure whether this phenomenon is understood by the medical world.
Naming the phenomenon does not mean we understand that mental aberration.It is understood and documented well. Its referred to as an auditory hallucination.
That is the real question, what level of demonic influence is involved in this mental aberration?This is classified as paranoid schizophrenia. One of its symptoms is hearing audible voices telling you things, thinking everyone is watching you, and there is a conspiracy to kill you.
There is a film called "A beautiful mind" which goes through the experiences of a gifted mathmatician who saw three people, who were not there, who told him to do things. In later life he got to the point were he could ignore them, ie. live with his condition.
Where this kind of problem crosses over to demons and possession is a question. The problem with demons they do not like people who know Jesus, and would rather flee.
I suggest you look at your own record here before accusing me.Are you really into deliverance or abuse, lol?
I apologise for proding you. I love to hear of people who have been helped by anybodies ministry, because it is good to minister Gods blessing on anybody.
But then turning the other cheek maybe something you missed.
I know nothing of your fellowship. The playground of the demonic horde will always be the body of Christ. The rest are already in his possession.You claimed churches are where demons in your ministry are found.
Are you suggesting in my fellowship I will find possessed people, who have not been noticed? I know it is possible, but I am wondering where you are leading.
Another straw man argument. You try and smear me by association with events or people I have never heard of.I have had "spirit" led preachers suggesting I was possessed. They then talked about how in their ministry people had spoken against them, and were struck dumb. This particular preacher believed he could create things ex-nihilo.
Again nothing to do with me.When I talked about Jesus conquering through love and repentance through the cross, he gave up and disappeared. The sad reality is there are some disturbed people who will behave in strange ways if pressured, so I am sceptical about such claims.
Why should I not believe you are the source of the problems you are claiming to resolve.
Ah, that explains your antagonism, either ignorance of scripture, or plain unbelief when you read it.To put it mildly, there is no deliverance ministry listed in the gifts or authority in the church. So why should anyone take you seriously?
I hope you know the Lord.By the way I am not fearly of your rebuke, however it might be delivered. I hope you know the Lord and walk in His love and grace. May you find love and peace in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, amen.
Instead of personal insults, why don't youSir Francis Drake - a great spiritual warrior whose example we should not follow.
Yes, two people who taught the necessity of deliverance and spiritual warfare.If you want a hero, I would pick Paul or Peter.
I have no idea why you bring this up in response to my post?Paul was annoyed with a possessed slave girl, following them and declaring their ministry.
It was not as if she was a threat, but Paul cast the demon out and things went badly, because the owners of the prophetess lost money as a result.
Again you try to smear me by association, using issues of money and greed.It is there ironic that money and greed was the scheme used to cause trouble.
Funny how this is actually still the case,
As your posts reveal, Satan's primary tactic is to make Christians believe he is of little or no relevance. That way he can do what he wants in the church.but then the enemy would rather we think
he is the bigger problem. But if he can keep people from reading and believing Jesus and His word job done.
An observation on what I talked about, about deliverance ministries.
Francis Drake got upset,
The problem in the church is not demon emphasis, but the demons themselves and those who by their denial give licence to those demons.and did not acknowledge this demon emphasis in the church is a problem. Maybe he is not what he appears to be.
If a comment makes no sense, then its nonsense. There's no magic in that.A sure sign things are not as they should be is words like nonsence and you are not biblical.
Another smear from someone who lectures me on peace and turning the other cheek. You now directly compare me to non believers, like the seven sons of Sceva. Please desist from these ungodly attacks on my character and stick to proper discussion.What did demons say about Jesus and Paul
"Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" Acts 19:15
Other than in challenging those who bring it up, I never use the words possessed or oppressed because of the confusion they always arouse.My experience of demons is, they appear, you call on the Lord, they go away.
My brothers in the Lord have had similar experiences.
So christians demon possessed?
So you admit to being blind in not seeing such things, or a quack for seeing and driving them out.Junk. Christians oppressed and disturbed because of sin
and bad things in there past? Very likely. But most people involved in spotting such things are very likely quacks.
All Christians, not just leaders, have the power to drive demons out.Going to the elders or leaders of a church, them laying hands and praying for people, now that is where the power of God works.
If its that simple, how come all demons are not submitted to Jesus already and in his chains? How come we are commanded to cast them out?Demons are not an issue.
They have to submit to Jesus. As the apostles found, they just fled.
You have yet to demonstrate that so called heresy, or prove that Christians can't have demons.The problem is superstitions about demons and believers who claim they can be possessed by a demon at the same time as having the Holy Spirit. If you follow their teaching and experience it is full of heresy and demon experiences.
As you say, "Another group…..", making it a hugely off topic straw man argument.Another group believe in desiring to travel to the 3rd heaven, to talk to angels, to have messages via prophets with dead believers who are encouraging the current congregations.
Part of this group now support using the Holy Spirit and spiritual future prophecy cards to
predict the future outcome of people who come to consult the "spiritual" believer.
So you admit demons are a problem when it suits you!Their excuse is they are testing the spiritual boundaries of belief and guidance, where traditional legalistic christianity would not go. They are literally listening to demons.
You now call warning against demonic influence a sin???????????and encouraging people to think this is part of the Christian faith, while it is sin and worthy of total expulsion and under the law, death.
Another topic, nothing to do with deliverance from demons.But then the same group believe speaking from God and being wrong is practising forth telling, not grevious sin against the Lord.
The thread title says, Are demons real and do they interfere with people? Above you accused people of listening to demons, and then do your best to deny they have influence. LolSo I am 100% suspicious of this drift into the world of spiritual beings, who will be fried alive at judgement, by people who claim we need to spend large amounts of spiritual effort to defeat the spiritual principalities and powers in the heavenly realm.
I think it is you who is walking in defeat and unbelief, not those who fulfil the commands Jesus made to set the captives free by deliverance.Jesus has already done this, which is why they flee at His name. To claim they have value today, is to walk in unbelief and sin against the Lord. No wonder people get so defeated and messed up.
Your logic is of little help as it applies equally to both sides of the argument.The logic here is simple.
Find out the personal history of someone and their normal behaviour patterns.
If you want to believe "demons" are responsible, sadly certain people who would rather put their problems down to demons, will behave like this is really an issue.
I agree, and have never said otherwise. (other than when the disciples struggled one time.)In a few cases this may well be true, but in the bible, how many issues with demons ends with anything else than quick resolution.
Really?Nowhere is scripture does it say you have behaviour problems because you are possessed.
Satan is given power by those who abdicate God's commandment to fight, instead teaching that he is of no concern to Christians.If you want to give the enemy power, start believing he has more authority than he has, and suprisingly you will find the Lord will hand you over to be rebuked. This is the irony. The Lord is King and it is through Him we have the victory, Amen.
Your logic is of little help as it applies equally to both sides of the argument.
You object to people blaming demons, when both church and state medicine teach people to blame the latest psychological acronym.
I agree, and have never said otherwise. (other than when the disciples struggled one time.)
Really?
Matt8v28When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
That sounds like a behavioural problem to me!
Mark9v17A man in the crowd answered, “Teacher, I brought you my son, who is possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech. 18Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground.
Again it sounds like a behavioural problem.
Scripture also speaks about spirits of fear which of course directly affects the emotions and behaviour.
It also speaks of doctrines of demons and Satan as the father of lies, thus again directing people's behaviour.
Satan is given power by those who abdicate God's commandment to fight, instead teaching that he is of no concern to Christians.
And for your information, the Lord has never handed me over to be rebuked, other than by unbelieving bible teachers.
Apologies accepted.I apologize about my too all encompasing statement about demons causing behaviour issues.
You are right, I always focus on the church because the ministry we are called to is building the ekklesia of God, not the world.Outside believers filled with the Holy Spirit, non-beleivers can be possessed and affected. But this discussion implied it is in the church demon deliverance is performed and needed, to the extent that is you focus.
You're not going to like where this leads, but, I'm sure you understand the following verse,-I am questioning this proposition as my experience does not match this within a fellowship who have a lot of exposure to people of many backgrounds, yet no known incidents.
You have answered the question already. The issue is diagnosis and interpretation, and in that, you are no different to the vast majority of spirit led churches today.Healings, prophecy, tongues, loving ministry and encouragement, but deliverence, not an issue. So either we are the exception or maybe the diagnosis or interpretation is faulty.
Here is the Great Commission.-I was once in a meeting were a lady was very distressed but it was emotional due to stress of the situation they were in, but the preacher thought it was demonic oppression, rather than emotional shock and exhaustion.
I understand your concerns, but when we look at the average congregation we shouldn't expect to see horns growing on the heads of those needing deliverance, or see them foaming at the mouth.I am questioning this proposition as my experience does not match this within a fellowship who have a lot of exposure to people of many backgrounds, yet no known incidents. Healings, prophecy, tongues, loving ministry and encouragement, but deliverence, not an issue. So either we are the exception or maybe the diagnosis or interpretation is faulty.
I understand your concerns, but when we look at the average congregation we shouldn't expect to see horns growing on the heads of those needing deliverance, or see them foaming at the mouth.
Who knows what struggles some people have when they are back home without the uplift of collective worship. Who knows what hinders or what drives them like slaves?
The following testimony, one of many, is pasted from a post I did on another thread. Generational Curses--question
This occurred long before I ever heard about generational curses.
About 40 years ago, a friend and I were asked to pray for a Christian lady who was visiting our fellowship here in the UK. She didn't give a very clear description of what her problem was or where her need lay.
So we laid it before the Lord and asked for his wisdom. Shortly later, I heard the Lord give the following words, "The spirit of Mormon."
When I told the lady the word, she responded with indignation. She had never been involved with Mormonism, nor even visited their churches. That stumped me a little so I apologised and we stumbled on praying around various things that came to light.
About half an hour afterwards, she suddenly gasped and put her hand over her mouth.
She then related a conversation she had had with her mother when she was a child.
Apparently, in the mid 1800s, her great great great grandfather had gone out to Utah with Brigham Young in his great waggon train to build Salt Lake City for the Mormon Church!
No amount of mental gymnastics would have exposed that spiritual link travelling back over 130 years, had not the Holy Spirit revealed it.
Mormonism is a false doctrine, clearly inspired by demons. Her ancestor had subjected himself to that demon which influenced his spiritual life. That demonic power had travelled down the family line affecting subsequent generations until the day we prayed.
Needless to say, we cast the spirit of Mormonism out of her and set her free from it.
That is the blood of Christ at work.
Unknown to her, the Spirit of Mormon would be giving her thought processes a "gloss" when she was trying to understand scripture, or trying to discern what the Lord was saying to her. That demon would be constantly stimulating unbelief and trying to redirect her thoughts in wrong directions.
She had not come asking for deliverance, just that we would pray through her problems. Had we not been open to deliverance, we would not have been open to that word of knowledge.
I have no idea how she fared after that day as she was a visitor and I never saw her again.
She was very grateful and could clearly see the hand of God at work in exposing demonic powers that were totally concealed.
I was not a leader, but just a member of a congregation, and very green back then, learning by doing.
The gifts of the Spirit are essential for good deliverance, otherwise we are just beating around the bush hoping to expose something.
But the commandment to drive out demons was not just for a point in time was it.I think there is a large difference between ministry and the Lord laying on people insights to particular issues specific to that point in time and believing this is a wider issue of significance.
The best example of love of course is Jesus himself, and one of the best ways he showed it was by driving demons out and setting the captives free.Learning how to love others is our mission and walk. The enemy and our own desires will work to avoid these hard realities.
But the commandment to drive out demons was not just for a point in time was it.
You either do what the Lord commanded, or you bury your head in the sand.
The best example of love of course is Jesus himself, and one of the best ways he showed it was by driving demons out and setting the captives free.
He did that because doing so established regime change in that person's life.
Matt12v28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Conversely, not driving those demons out, or insisting they don't exist, ensures that demons remain in charge, even in the church.
Not trying to be rude, but from everything you have said, I doubt you would recognise a demon at work even if it ran over you in a bus. lolThe problems in our fellowship and with the people I share with are not demons. If they were I would be thinking differently. I can but share the reality of my daily experience.
I was raised Methodist, so I know nothing of Christian "deliverance" per say. I met a young girl on here just recently but she wouldn't give me any details, not even the vaguest general outline and wouldn't even answer my question as to what denomination it was. I'm very interested in the topic, I feel like I run into obviously influenced people quite often but can only pray for them.For a handmaid of the Lord, you show little understanding of the practice of deliverance from demons, otherwise you wouldn't be saying such things. Show me anywhere in the gospels or Acts where casting out demons raises the possessed/oppressed issue, they just got on and did it.
Its a classic diversionary debate created by people who don't actually practice deliverance, Thus freeing people from spiritual bondage becomes of lesser importance than high minded theology.
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