Are criminals being called "protestors" by accident?

[BobRyan]

George Floyd death: The cities where people are protesting and rioting

The title says "protesting" but the picture shows violence and crime.

===============
CNN's turn...

CNN Center in Atlanta damaged during protests - CNN

CNN is linking protest to crime. Calling it "violent protest".

It seems to me that legitimate protesters/mourners/lamenters etc - are getting overwhelmed by "another element" that is hijacking/co-opting the "lament" and operating right in front of the cameras - glad to have the media call it "a protest".

1. If you were living in a communist country and they had a public scandal where a Christian was being choked to death... And so all the Christians in that communist country insisted that the perpetrators be brought to justice. But then the government said "no we will not charge the criminals with any wrong-doing because Christians should not exist.. the fewer the better". (so then a "systemic" problem of persecution of Christians in that communist country)

There would be some sort of wish to "protest" peacefully - but "protest". -- so far it looks like everyone gets that point.

2. However if the government immediately rendered swift justice to those criminals that did that crime - ... then it is a tragedy .. but without a protest since all the government CAN do is deliver swift justice to the criminals. (So then NOT a "systemic" problem since swift justice is the response). Now this used to be common sense that everyone would have agreed with as well.

What is making that scenario 2 above so difficult for America these days?

What "else" were they supposed to do??

 

[Tanj]

2. However if the government immediately rendered swift justice to those criminals that did that crime - ... then it is a tragedy .. but without a protest since all the government CAN do is deliver swift justice to the criminals. Now this used to be common sense that everyone would have agreed with as well.

What is making that scenario 2 above so difficult for America these days?

What "else" were they supposed to do??

You're talking about the cops that murder black people right? and the complete lack of any swift justice when it happens?

Cops use excessive force... a few bad apples
Civilians loot under the cover of a large protest... systemic problem that requires military intervention.

 

[BobRyan]

You're talking about the cops that murder black people right?

In my world - I would oppose cops murdering people no matter what the skin color of the cop or the skin color of the victim.

A lot of people normally think that same way as well - as I am told.

In this case the criminal is charged with the crime of murder, fired, arrested, jailed and his wife filed for divorce..

and the complete lack of any swift justice when it happens?

Yes - that is the scenario I wanted us to imagine in the case of the Christian (of whatever skin color you choose) being choked in that communist country .. by a communist (of whatever skin color you choose)

Raises the question in my mind:
"What color does a criminal have to be for "charged with the crime of murder, fired, arrested, jailed and his wife filed for divorce" - to no longer sound to the reader like "swift justice"??



Some cops (no matter the color) use excessive force... a few bad apples - and we would all have agreed to this had this discussion come up a month ago.

Criminals (no matter the color) loot under the cover of a large protest... not a systemic problem -- since nothing "in the system" requires/causes criminals to do that

 

[Silmarien]

2. However if the government immediately rendered swift justice to those criminals that did that crime - ... then it is a tragedy .. but without a protest since all the government CAN do is deliver swift justice to the criminals. Now this used to be common sense that everyone would have agreed with as well.

One problem is that we're not just talking about criminal behavior. We're talking about abuse of power on the part of law enforcement, which does in a real sense represent the state. If abuse of power keeps on happening, then the government does have to do more than render swift justice after the fact. It needs to address why this is happening at all and come up with better ways to prevent it.

 

[DavidPT]

systemic problem that requires military intervention.

Apparently you are in Australia. This is the United States, the land of the free, or that it's supposed to be anyway. And that no non government person should want martial law in their country. When something like that happens everyones rights get trampled, even the ones having nothing to do with these protests, would be my guess.

 

[Tanj]

Apparently you are in Australia. This is the United States, the land of the free, or that it's supposed to be anyway.

I found out today you have an entire police force just for parks.

 

[BobRyan]

One problem is that we're not just talking about criminal behavior.

Yes we are. Anyone who murders another human being is committing a crime -- it is against the law... which is why the criminal in this example was immediately fired, charged with murder, jailed .. etc.

We're talking about abuse of power on the part of law enforcement, which does in a real sense represent the state.

If the argument is that a few criminals in the role of government or police force or the national guard or in a doctor's office, or employed at a grocery store etc - make the entire system they are in -- willful promoters of crime -- even if those criminals are met with swift justice in such cases of murder etc.. then the statement "abuse of power" and "systemic" becomes meaningless.

If abuse of power keeps on happening, then the government does have to do more than render swift justice after the fact.

That is pretty scary - what if we decided that simply giving out speeding tickets and revoking driver's licenses "was not enough" -- and the government is still complicit as long as someone is speeding .. and they need to "do more" -- maybe have "education camps" ??

The problem is that "MORE" than swift justice, jail time, etc... gets into a whole new realm

 

[BobRyan]

I found out today you have an entire police force just for parks.

true that.

And we have other statistics that pertain more directly to this as well --
#1

 

[Silmarien]

If the argument is that a few criminals in the role of government or police force or the national guard or in a doctor's office, or employed at a grocery store etc - make the entire system they are in -- willful promoters of crime -- even if those criminals are met with swift justice in such cases of murder etc.. then the statement "abuse of power" and "systemic" becomes meaningless.

You seem to be acting under the false assumption that police officers who abuse their power are met with swift justice. Unfortunately, this is seldom the case.

That is pretty scary - what if we decided that simply giving out speeding tickets and revoking driver's licenses "was not enough" -- and the government is still complicit as long as someone is speeding .. and they need to "do more" -- maybe have "education camps" ??

The problem is that "MORE" than swift justice, jail time, etc... gets into a whole new realm

If police officers were wantonly breaking traffic laws, then yes, the government would need to investigate why they were engaging in such activities and at the very least try to introduce some sort of training to combat that problem. Even if a whole bunch of citizens were engaging in risky behavior like that, you would probably want to introduce some sort of educational program in the school system to make people more aware of the sort of damage they could do. Otherwise you have a serious public safety hazard on your hands.

We don't just say, "Here, go wild. No training required to do anything, and if you mess up, we'll just hold you responsible after the fact." That isn't how this works.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No, but criminals are being called "law enforcement" on purpose.

But lawless thugs and terrorists with badges don't deserve to be called law enforcement.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Gene2memE]

Apparently you are in Australia. This is the United States, the land of the free, or that it's supposed to be anyway. And that no non government person should want martial law in their country. When something like that happens everyones rights get trampled, even the ones having nothing to do with these protests, would be my guess.

I suspect you missed Tanj's point.

He was juxtaposing the reactions of certain sections of the US commentariat to different situations, to point out the hypocrisy.

When a black man is murdered by police, then the reaction to this is that this is the actions of "just a few bad apples"
However, when there is looting and violence from a minority of protestors, then the reaction to this is that there is a "systemic problem that requires military intervention."

Also, I agree that the US is supposed to be the home of the free. Unfortunately, over the course of my lifetime, the US has slipped lower and lower down when compared to various measures of freedom.

Even among exceptionally nationalistic US organisations such as the CATO Institute and the Heritage Foundation, the standing of the US as a free nation has declined. Australia significantly outperforms the US on both rankings (US was 17th on both, Australia was 4th and 5th).

 

[Sparagmos]

In my world - I would oppose cops murdering people no matter what the skin color of the cop or the skin color of the victim.

A lot of people normally think that same way as well - as I am told.

In this case the criminal is charged with the crime of murder, fired, arrested, jailed and his wife filed for divorce..



Yes - that is the scenario I wanted us to imagine in the case of the Christian (of whatever skin color you choose) being choked in that communist country .. by a communist (of whatever skin color you choose)

Raises the question in my mind:
"What color does a criminal have to be for "charged with the crime of murder, fired, arrested, jailed and his wife filed for divorce" - to no longer sound to the reader like "swift justice"??



Some cops (no matter the color) use excessive force... a few bad apples - and we would all have agreed to this had this discussion come up a month ago.

Criminals (no matter the color) loot under the cover of a large protest... not a systemic problem -- since nothing "in the system" requires/causes criminals to do that

We’re not protesting one incident. Isn’t that clear? Every day this week cops have beaten and gassed innocent people. The brutality hasn’t stopped because one man was arrested.

 

[LostMarbels]

But lawless thugs and terrorists with badges don't deserve to be called law enforcement.

What should we call left wing black supremacists that light fires in homes occupied with families, (including children) that racially profile and beat a 70 year old white women with 2x4's in front of her own store?

 

[LostMarbels]

The brutality hasn’t stopped because one man was arrested.

No kidding. That is because these riots were never actually about getting justice.

 

[Tanj]

Are criminals being called "protestors" by accident?

Nope, protestors are being called criminals on purpose.

 

[BobRyan]

Nope, protestors are being called criminals on purpose.

mismashed the OP title?

We see crime pictured in the OP link and the word "protestor" used as if the legit protestors are doing the looting, beatings, burning of churches etc (simply because they are in the same group??)

If a gang of 20 people goes down the street burning cars, robbing stores, beating bystanders - but along with the 20 is 1 person "walking their dog" do we say "dog walkers ... just out walking their dog" as the caption? Or no wait ... maybe the dog walker is also having some accountability in that case, is that your point?

 

[BobRyan]

No kidding. That is because these riots were never actually about getting justice.

Justice would come in the form of arresting rioters so peaceful memorial and demonstrations could take place.

 

[BobRyan]

What should we call left wing black supremacists that light fires in homes occupied with families, (including children) that racially profile and beat a 70 year old white women with 2x4's in front of her own store?

what if they are not all left wing or black in the cases of the looting and burning? What if they are just criminals (of several colors and political stripe) hijacking the wide open door opportunity where authorities are self-paralyzing self-quarantine-ing themselves for the sake of pc-speak?

 

[LostMarbels]

Justice would come in the form of arresting rioters so peaceful memorial and demonstrations could take place.

Correct. There are so many good and decent people now hurting even worse because of this. I mean it is just awful.

 

[BobRyan]

We’re not protesting one incident. Isn’t that clear? Every day this week cops have beaten and gassed innocent people. The brutality hasn’t stopped because one man was arrested.

Billions of people in the world and your point is that every day someone does a crime where that someone is not just among the rioters beating women and burning churches but in a very few cases - could be a police person - so long live the rioting? I don't see the logic in that.