Are "certain" video games unholy?

[MezzaMorta]

If she was cheated on she could have divorced him, according to the scripture.

It would be cause for nullification. But that never occurred according to her.

 

[mont974x4]

annulment is a RC deal and certainly not applicable to all...plus, it isn't in the Bible.


Besides, MM, weren't you called out in another thread a few weeks ago because you admitted to willful fornication?

 

[chris777]

I thought you were insinuating that confusing was satan's realm.

I was insinuating that God is not the author of confusion. That leaves , us, as well as satan, and his minions.

In fact, as the author of the Bible, God has done a great deal to confuse people. As much as we wish things were clearly, sometimes they are not.

But it is not God who causes the confusion, it is us, and or satanic in origin. If you do not understand something I suggest praying about it, and studying the scriptures.
Everything I had doubts on, and or was confused about was made clear to me after praying and studying them. Things that made no sense to me , began to. Much of it I suspect had to do with me letting Go of many of my concepts that I had developed independently of scripture. I formed them, I learned them, once I let them Go things began to fit together.
People get all bent out of shape on reasoning and logic, but is The God of the universe becoming flesh and dying for a sinful world that hates him, and his ways, really logical in the sense that all secular logic alludes to? I let it all Go

No sin is acceptable. These acts in virtual worlds are not sin, that is what I am saying, yet they can impact our character over time, so we need to assess why we are playing these games.

But do you agree that they are representations of what we as christians would identify as sin? I personally believe these things harden our hearts to sin, callousing it and make us more tolerant of it, more comfortable with it if you will.

Depending on the reason why we are indulging in that fiction, we can then determine if it's ok.

Possibly , but I also feel it has a high potential to lull us in as well.
For example, with my fairly extensive knowledge of various science fiction/fantasy/fictional stories, I began to take note at the nature and ways secular fiction added, to, altered, diminished, and flat out lied about the bible, I also took note of parallels. that I personally feel are small jabs at christianity, for example, people who die, and are resurrected , people who perform miracles, people from virgin birth, and inconspicuously people with the initials JC that follow ,many of these parallels. look at much of the modern attacks on christianity, many reduce it to myth. which is the basis of the vast majority of fictional works. I feel it is a subtle satanic attack on christianity, to reduce it to commonality. through repetition.
If every story has a protagonist who dies, and is resurrected, how original does that make the truth appear? sorry for going off on that tangent , but my point was I started to become tempted by things I saw aside from what I was taking note of. So I have personally decided it is not necessarily the wisest course of action.
I also do not particularly recommend it to others, As I thought I was wise enough to play with fire myself, and was proven wrong.
The scriptures say flee from sin, they don't lie.

It depends on what the content is that is removed and if it impacts other areas. For example replacing soldiers with zombies in BF2, would destroy the entire game for me, so no. Yet not having blood appear when shot, is fine. In fact one of the big discussion I had with a friend at work was that I would possibly play Diablo 2 if the extreme gore was removed.

that is part of the trap I fell into. think about it this way. If you are running around in a first person shooter killing people, is not the intent the same, with or without the blood? I have been trying to think of a way that I could try and explain it to a child, and I cannot come up with a way of doing it, that makes it seem like it is a good or harmless thing.

"it is ok if I run around killing them because it is pretend and you do not see blood" I just cant do it. It reminds me too much of looking on a woman with lust. the intent is the same.

I think fellowship is generally a good thing, and if we can promote our message through it, then that's even better. Heck, if Jesus hung out with prostitutes and sinners, I think we can certainly say that good will come of it if we uphold our integrity.

Jesus hung out with them, but he did not participate in their deeds.
The end never justifies the means. We don't sin that others may come to Christ.

Were Christians enjoying that too? I think not.

my point was that fellowship was not inherently a good thing.
We are told not to be unequally yolked with non believers.
Yet sometimes that kills fellowship. We need to make sure we do not erode the Gospel to share it. We are to come to repentance. minimizing or whit holding some of the scriptures to keep people around is not biblical. Even Jesus drove off the crowd with his words John 6:
[47] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
[48] I am that bread of life.
[49] Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
[50] This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
[52] The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
[53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
[54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
[57] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
[58] This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
[59] These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
[60] Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
[61] When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
[62] What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
[64] But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
[65] And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
[66] From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
[67] Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
[68] Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
[69] And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

No sins are acceptable, that's for sure. Yet these actions in games are not sins. Did you read my post earlier about how God created rules to protect us and how all sin has a consequence and so on?

No I missed It I will try and look through the thread and find it.
While I am not certain I would call these actions sin, I would call them representations of sin, And as I was trying to explain earlier, I am having difficulty coming up with a justification for them, that does not come off as hypocritical, should I attempt to explain it to a child.

 

[chris777]

As long as he behaves with his younger cousins and does his choirs I let him play his games. Hasn’t given me any cause to punish him, but if he did I would just take his video games away from him for a day or something.
Letting a kid have fun when they deserve it is not appeasing.

my point was that you seemed unconcerned that he was not a christian. sorry I wasn't clearer.

What should I be doing, telling him his parents are going to hell and making him read the bible…. Sounds like a fun way to spend summer.

it should never be forced on anyone.
But the point was we don't know how much longer we have until judgement, it could happen before I finish this reply.
You just seemed strangely unconcerned with his salvation.

I am endorsing video games… sure.

well You have made it pretty clear of your liberal views of many things.

 

[chris777]

I would suggest that it should be handled like the meat in 1 Cor. You are certainly free to draw that line for yourself, but not for others. For my part, I won't create an issue for you by playing them in front of you.

Like I was stating in my previous post, Not me, but a child.

How would you explain it to a child?

 

[Digit]

I was insinuating that God is not the author of confusion. That leaves , us, as well as satan, and his minions.

You are saying that confusion is not something which can be genuine. Considering all the people that approached Christ in the Bible and left feeling confused, I would say that confusion is not inherently a result that leans to any side of the spectrum. This is neither here nor there however.

People get all bent out of shape on reasoning and logic, but is The God of the universe becoming flesh and dying for a sinful world that hates him, and his ways, really logical in the sense that all secular logic alludes to?

If you have done this, and it's helped then great. Yet God has never commanded us to do this, and indeed encourages the opposite. He tells us to reason with Him, and to test everything. Hold on to the good and let go of the bad. One of my recent favourite passages revealed this to me. Test everything.

But do you agree that they are representations of what we as christians would identify as sin?

Some are in context of the game and action yes, but me shooting somone in one game, is not the same as me shooting them in another.

I personally believe these things harden our hearts to sin, callousing it and make us more tolerant of it, more comfortable with it if you will.

Yes and I agree, which is why I say we need to search for the reason as to why we find something entertaining so that we can judge it's impact on our character. As some things I find can and do damage our character, and this is what I feel God has warned us away from.

For example, with my fairly extensive knowledge of various science fiction/fantasy/fictional stories, I began to take note at the nature and ways secular fiction added, to, altered, diminished, and flat out lied about the bible, I also took note of parallels. that I personally feel are small jabs at christianity, for example, people who die, and are resurrected , people who perform miracles, people from virgin birth, and inconspicuously people with the initials JC that follow ,many of these parallels. look at much of the modern attacks on christianity, many reduce it to myth. which is the basis of the vast majority of fictional works. I feel it is a subtle satanic attack on christianity, to reduce it to commonality. through repetition.

I don't personally feel that copying a story reduces the first storys legitimacy. If anything I find it reassuring. C.S. Lewis and his Chronicles of Narnia was heralded because of the similarities it contained to Christianity, the message of sacrifice and rebirth and salvation. I personally want to see more of these, because just as negative media can impact our character for worse, as I've been saying, so do I believe that positive media can impact it for the better.

There have been many links drawn to American news reports and the violence and general attitude of people in the country, when just a short hop-skip away in Canada, similar news reports are far nicer and tamer, and as such, crime is much lower and the people are less violent. I think one of the recent murders there was actually committed by an American who was a tourist.

These things do have impacts, and just as we can say that some are bad for obvious reasons, so I do believe that others are good and will produce good. I don't personally feel you can accept one and then also say that the other lessens the originals impact and message.

I am not saying I don't see attacks against God in everyday life, yet I certainly don't see attacks in those things which mimmick Christianity in it's message and story. I more see attacks in things where the church is shown as evil, God is shown to be called on yet not answering, so the hero takes matters into their own hands, rife blasphemy and anti-tolerant behaviour and so on.

that is part of the trap I fell into. think about it this way. If you are running around in a first person shooter killing people, is not the intent the same, with or without the blood?

They are two issues. Both of which I feel impact our character. One is exposure to violence and gore, and the other is the motive behind desiring that exposure.

I have been trying to think of a way that I could try and explain it to a child, and I cannot come up with a way of doing it, that makes it seem like it is a good or harmless thing.

As per the ratings guidelines children should not be playing these games, just as children are not allowed to play paintball and airsoft until a certain age. A mature foundation is needed in order to be able to discern these things more clearly. Even we, are 20-30 years of age are having discussions about it.

"it is ok if I run around killing them because it is pretend and you do not see blood" I just cant do it. It reminds me too much of looking on a woman with lust. the intent is the same.

How about, "This is our team, the blue guys, we need to get as many points as possible within the time limit, to do this you have to eliminate the enemy, the red team. When hit, they will disappear and then reappear a short time later back at their base. Watchout for tanks."

Jesus hung out with them, but he did not participate in their deeds.
The end never justifies the means. We don't sin that others may come to Christ. my point was that fellowship was not inherently a good thing.

Playing computer games isn't sinning though. That's the difference, just as playing football, rugby, cricket, paintball and chess are not sins, not are computer games.

We are told not to be unequally yolked with non believers.
Yet sometimes that kills fellowship.

Yes it does. I regretted going to see 300. I found it too violent, and there were parts I truly enjoyed, yet other parts made me ill and I saw no reason to be entertained by it. I apologised to the friends I took with me afterwards and they said its ok, they liked it. I can draw a distinction there, and understand why I don't like it, and why I wouldn't play a game of the same ilk. So in some respects fellowship will be killed. You won't find me playing God of War 2 with my friends, yet you will find me playing Ghost Recon with them, and enjoying the competition and action in the game.

Again, this is my own personal thoughts on it. I've seen a great deal of good come from gaming and wish to encourage that side of it, and move away from the negative trend that some games seem to exploit and use to draw gamers.

Cheers,
Digit

 

[Digit]

Like I was stating in my previous post, Not me, but a child.

How would you explain it to a child?

The explaining it to a child reasoning is rather flawed, as how would you explain sex to a child or Jesus' Crucifixion? Both contain details which are not suitable for a childs mind, maturity and understanding is needed first, before we can explain things better and until then we provide a simple version for those who are receptive. Children of the age you are indicating, shouldn't be playing these games or hearing about these events in detail.

To someone who already has an established knowledge and maturity, explaining these things is effortless.

Digit

 

[MezzaMorta]

my point was that you seemed unconcerned that he was not a christian. sorry I wasn't clearer.

He is from the Muslim side of my family, nothing special about that. Pretty common in Lebanon where the nation is divided basically in half between Christian and Muslim communities and there never really has been any division between the two communities.

But the point was we don't know how much longer we have until judgement, it could happen before I finish this reply.
You just seemed strangely unconcerned with his salvation.

I don’t believe that those who worship God are going to hell just because they do not do so though the one true church.

 

[mont974x4]

Like I was stating in my previous post, Not me, but a child.

How would you explain it to a child?

That is the parents responsibility, unless they are in my care for some reason. I have talked to my kids to make sure that they understand the difference between what is real and what isn't, they know what behavior is acceptible and what isn't, and the issue of not letting things rule over them and becoming idols.

My 3 year old is to young to play such games, but my 8, 12, and 13 year olds are old enough.

 

[Nottingham40]

I think they are, here is my rationale. People, namely younger people, are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Video Games like TV and Movies introduce a fantasy world. THats fine but our young people just dont have the tools to acknowladge that these constructs are fantasy and not reality. The only way to remedy this is to insulate our younger people from all fantasy; games, books, movies, tv that are determined 'unholy' by a select few pastor or church head men.

 

[mont974x4]

Well, you are free to raise your children as you see fit based on the convictions of your heart, so long as they are biblical.

Myself, I do teach my kids the diference and teach them how to properly handle such things.


Too much insulating and you end up with a rebelious young adult ill-equipped to face the world effectively for Christ.

 

[chris777]

The explaining it to a child reasoning is rather flawed, as how would you explain sex to a child or Jesus' Crucifixion? Both contain details which are not suitable for a childs mind, maturity and understanding is needed first, before we can explain things better and until then we provide a simple version for those who are receptive. Children of the age you are indicating, shouldn't be playing these games or hearing about these events in detail.

To someone who already has an established knowledge and maturity, explaining these things is effortless.

Digit

That is the parents responsibility, unless they are in my care for some reason. I have talked to my kids to make sure that they understand the difference between what is real and what isn't, they know what behavior is acceptible and what isn't, and the issue of not letting things rule over them and becoming idols.

My 3 year old is to young to play such games, but my 8, 12, and 13 year olds are old enough.

Both of you missed what I was asking, let me try and clarify.

How do you explain to a child, that you are sitting there playing a game, that exhibits, something that we would never do in real life, because we know it is a sin.

for example :daddy if killing is wrong why are you running around doing it in the game.

or the one that personally struck me.
if casting spells is wrong, then should you really be playing this game?

Not their inability to distinguish from right and wrong, or their being too immature, but rather their innate, childishness, that we as Christians out to seek to emulate.

They see things we have forgotten how to.

 

[mont974x4]

I think I did answer your question. If it isn't good enough for you, well, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[chris777]

I think I did answer your question. If it isn't good enough for you, well, I don't know what to tell you.

I have been asked why is it right to do something in a game, but not so in real life.
I could not come up with a reply to that, without coming off like a hypocrite.

that was the Gist of my question.

Do you have a reply I could use?
As I couldn't come up with one.

 

[mont974x4]

I don't think its our problem if people can't diferentiate between playing a game and doing an act in real life.

Heck, I know people that are against the veggie tales.

 

[david_x]

I don't think its our problem if people can't diferentiate between playing a game and doing an act in real life.

Heck, I know people that are against the veggie tales.

I guess we have to accept that some people are goning to be anti-social. They will ban the things that can bind us.

 

[mont974x4]

What do you mean?

 

[david_x]

What do you mean?

I mean that people hate society. They are trying to ruin the ways we connect and grow as a society of belivers.

 

[mont974x4]

How so?

 

[david_x]

How so?

They are trying to do away with video games.