Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
why is imitation of sin something a christian should indulge in?but what about relating video games to biblical principles? How do video game relate to a passage such as Ephesians 5:11 that states to avoid darkness and expose it, and darkness including murder, impure and sexual things, witchcraft.....of which some video games have elements of.
I don't think popularity factors into it, but I understand what you are saying. No I wouldn't play it, as I said I don't believe that the sort of game you are describing has a beneficial effect on our character. I see a link. In no way does playing BF2, lead me on to thoughts of murder or killing people. Whereas playing an adult game, leads me on to thoughts of lust and temptation. Just by it's nature it would. A likewise example would be, why would I play BF2 and not Manhunt, when both contain what you are deeming to be murder? And in fact, that raises another point, why is it murder? It isn't. We have to recognise that it is not real and we have to move away from the idea that doing something in a virtual world, is as inherently sinful as if we did it in real life. The life of a player character in a game is nothing more than a number attached to a variable that controls how long another player can control him for. In real life murder has drastic and very real consequences, in a game killing another player will only ever have consequences on your character as a person.What if the sexual game was as popular as Battlefield 2 and What if you played the sexual game with the intent of winning against the opposing side and not lusting? Would you still play it?
What you are exposed to, and what affect it has on your character as a person. Certain games contain extreme violence, and just as I will not play any adult game as I don't want to view that sort of material, the same is said for games with violence in that I will turn the gore settings down/off.The reason I ask this is because God condemns murder, and in some games we are called to commit murder to win. So what difference is there between murdering to win and having sex to win, in a game setting?
Lust is being driven to action by a strong desire or overpowering urge, regardless of the consequences or impact on others. It's about selfishness and possession. Yes, we sin when we lust, if we fulfill all those criteria. If we simply want something, or look at something with desire but turn away, we have not sinned. I just needed to clarify that. I think the problem is that you still view one player killing another in game as murder. It isn't murder. Just as having sex with an ingame character isn't adultery. Or just as playing an adventure game where you lie to an in game character, isn't lying - all in terms of sins. We cannot commit virtual sins. Sin is about our character and our actions in real life in this world under God's rule.It seems as if we are playing with sin in our minds rather than physically committing it. It's obvious that we sin when we lust, so I'm wondering if there's a difference if we commit murder for fun to win, and that being sin?
Ok, good, taking it to scripture is a good call. I wholly agree with that passage, and to relate it to computer games we need to recognise what they are. They are basically a make-believe world we we can indulge in competitions or adventures, where we can be heroes or villians and where we can do these things without any impact on the real world. Anything that crosses those boundaries is in question, and as such, we can recognise that things in games are mere programming expressions that create images and actually cannot affect our spiritual lives, whereas real world sin most certainly will affect our spiritual lives.How do you think participating in these games, films, books relate to the scripture in Eph 5:11: "1Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them."
If we cater to unwholesome activities that focus on negative aspects by using these devices, then no, we should not. Manhunt is a great example again, why play a game that is solely about stalking and killing people. Yet The Ship, an excellent multiplayer game, is all about stalking and killing other players, however they handle it in an incredible way. It's like multiplayer Cluedo, and the emphasis on the game is using your mind to outwit your opponent and evade your killer. Forgot to mention that, all players are told to kill someone (just one person) and all players are being stalked by another player.Darkness is murder, lust, rage, etc. If these games contain these elements and even if do participate in these actions for the fun of winning and no intent of ever physically engaging in those activities, are we still participating in darkness?
why is imitation of sin something a christian should indulge in?
I think you pretty much answered this already.but what about relating video games to biblical principles? How do video game relate to a passage such as Ephesians 5:11 that states to avoid darkness and expose it, and darkness including murder, impure and sexual things, witchcraft.....of which some video games have elements of.
Lust is being driven to action by a strong desire or overpowering urge, regardless of the consequences or impact on others. It's about selfishness and possession. Yes, we sin when we lust, if we fulfill all those criteria. If we simply want something, or look at something with desire but turn away, we have not sinned. I just needed to clarify that. I think the problem is that you still view one player killing another in game as murder. It isn't murder. Just as having sex with an ingame character isn't adultery. Or just as playing an adventure game where you lie to an in game character, isn't lying - all in terms of sins. We cannot commit virtual sins. Sin is about our character and our actions in real life in this world under God's rule.
Like Chris says, why should we indulge ourselves in imitations of sins even if we believe it doesn't affect our character to sin?Ok, good, taking it to scripture is a good call. I wholly agree with that passage, and to relate it to computer games we need to recognise what they are. They are basically a make-believe world we we can indulge in competitions or adventures, where we can be heroes or villians and where we can do these things without any impact on the real world. Anything that crosses those boundaries is in question, and as such, we can recognise that things in games are mere programming expressions that create images and actually cannot affect our spiritual lives, whereas real world sin most certainly will affect our spiritual lives.
All the passages in scripture that talk about guarding ourselves, do so because the things they mention will take us away from God in real life. Like witchcraft for example or sexual sin. Yet we are able to read books, watch movies and play games, all of which will contribute to our character, yet have no real impact on our spiritual life with God. This is why I feel it comes down to the why. Do I play a game for wholesome reasons? Do I feel anything in it, contains a message I should not propogate. Should I expose myself to questionable content? Those are the questions I ask when looking at a game to buy and play.
I don't think I could say with any certainty that I wouldn't lust though. I would rather stray from that altogether, than risk temptation. In addition, that speaks to our sexual lives, which is something quiet personal, and I enjoy gaming as a social activity and my sex-life is something private. I wish to keep those two right where they are.What if you didn't have the urge to lust while you played the porn game? Would you still play it?
Yes quite likely. I was always fascinated when I worked in Germany, that people were reading adult magazines on the bus and I saw a wife pass a paper with a page 3 model (topless model on page 3 of the paper) to her husband for him to look at. I was like, "Wth?!" hehe. So yes, in addition during my unsaved life, I was heavily exposed to violence and gore as I was a fan of horror movies and graphic novels. I still enjoy graphic novels and movies, yet am very particular about what I read/watch, because I know how these things affected me and I don't want to add to that side of my character anymore.I am confused about what side to take, but one thing I've noticed in our western society is that we are desensitized to violence, yet we are quick to point the finger when we see sexually explicit things.
Do you think this has a take on your view of things?
That's what I've been saying. He just did it in one sentence. >_> Do you truly feel BF2 has imitations of sin, that is why they were created, to cater to that side of life, the sinful side? Do you feel that way about games like Manhunt 1 or 2 or God of War 1 or 2? I know the difference between them. I can see the good that comes from games like BF2 and how they are an enjoyable part of our lives, as much as running a marathon or competing in an archery competition. Yet when I look at the latter, I see gratuitous violence, and reinforcement of it through positive in-game rewards.Like Chris says, why should we indulge ourselves in imitations of sins even if we believe it doesn't affect our character to sin?
see that's where I am stumped! lol
I haven't heard a good response against that. Someone mentioned that it depends why you are playing the game that imitates sins, and if you're playing it to win and not indulge in sin and aren't affect by it or influenced by it, then it's ok...But still the games have imitations of sin.
Would a game such as Halo be holy at all?
Yeah, that's exactly it. Why is that entertaining? For example when I was watching someone play God of War 2, and he had to repeatedly crush someones head in a doorway in order to proceed, and was rewarded for it. I was like, "Hmm... is this really a good thing?" even my non-believer friends thought that went too far.I ran into this issue watching a friend Choke someone to death in a game.
And It got me thinking, is this something we should be doing?
reducing sin to entertainment?
thus making light of it
I am beginning to wonder (especially considering sentiment expressed by many) if it is a way of desensitizing us to sin, just as violence is becoming desensitized,Yeah, that's exactly it. Why is that entertaining? For example when I was watching someone play God of War 2, and he had to repeatedly crush someones head in a doorway in order to proceed, and was rewarded for it. I was like, "Hmm... is this really a good thing?" even my non-believer friends thought that went too far.
Same with some movies, like The Saw, why is watching another's suffering entertaining? It's easy to see the direction of different movies and games from the first few moments, and to tell if that is something we should indulge in or not.
Digit
Funny you should mention that, there's a new film called The Ten coming out soon, which is a comedy about how bad behaviour makes for good humour. The writeup has this tacky bit which annoyed me, "Putting the sin back into cinema!" It's a small petty little thing, that someone probably thought up and decided they were very clever in doing so, yet it's all these small petty little things that add up into a message which unnerves me slightly. Hence why there are some games which I will just not even consider, and some movies and books too. In fact there was a book I came across recently called Sinful Sex, it is actually a guide to good sex, but why that title? Why is that something we should wish to elevate ourselves too? *sigh* Oh well, I guess the best we can do is make use of our time here, and help others to see the distinctions.I am beginning to wonder (especially considering sentiment expressed by many) if it is a way of desensitizing us to sin, just as violence is becoming desensitized,
I have noticed small things seemingly insignificant, but take note ofFunny you should mention that, there's a new film called The Ten coming out soon, which is a comedy about how bad behaviour makes for good humour. The writeup has this tacky bit which annoyed me, "Putting the sin back into cinema!" It's a small petty little thing, that someone probably thought up and decided they were very clever in doing so, yet it's all these small petty little things that add up into a message which unnerves me slightly. Hence why there are some games which I will just not even consider, and some movies and books too. In fact there was a book I came across recently called Sinful Sex, it is actually a guide to good sex, but why that title? Why is that something we should wish to elevate ourselves too? *sigh* Oh well, I guess the best we can do is make use of our time here, and help others to see the distinctions.
Cheers,
Digit
Yeah, things like that and sayings like, "That's as cool as hell!" (hell is cool now?) and the amount of blasphemy is quite shocking in many films and series.I have noticed small things seemingly insignificant, but take note of
recent films to use the phrase "in _______ we trust"
seems innocent and in an upcoming case "cute"
but it is nevertheless a diminishment of God.
I will be railed on it I am sure, but I still see it.
it is a surreal situation to become the enemy of what you once loved, everything you buiilt your life around,
But I find my new choice far greater.
I am more concerned with the Christian embracement of these things.Yeah, things like that and sayings like, "That's as cool as hell!" (hell is cool now?) and the amount of blasphemy is quite shocking in many films and series.
Digit
Okay, hold up. You keep bringing up the "it's the same as playing something that encourages fornication" argument yet you're not allowing discussion of whether fornication is sin. Where, exactly, do you expect the discussion to go? It's pretty clear that we need to be debating watching fornication as sin, because that's the template you've decided to base your judgment on video games off of.I'm still very confused. I just don't get why we can play something that encourages violence, while we shouldn't play something that encourages fornication. Both are equal sins in God's eyes, and they should be equal to us, but it's true that we do not equate both sins the same way, at least in our human world.
Okay, hold up. You keep bringing up the "it's the same as playing something that encourages fornication" argument yet you're not allowing discussion of whether fornication is sin. Where, exactly, do you expect the discussion to go? It's pretty clear that we need to be debating watching fornication as sin, because that's the template you've decided to base your judgment on video games off of.
Symphonica has accepted that fornication is a sin, and in that light, he wants to know if it's ok to play games that get the player to act out fornication to reach a goal. We don't need to determine whether fornication is a sin or not, in order to proceed.Okay, hold up. You keep bringing up the "it's the same as playing something that encourages fornication" argument yet you're not allowing discussion of whether fornication is sin. Where, exactly, do you expect the discussion to go? It's pretty clear that we need to be debating watching fornication as sin, because that's the template you've decided to base your judgment on video games off of.
Right, that's the key question really. Does it really encourage violence, and does this affect you in a negative way?I'm still very confused. I just don't get why we can play something that encourages violence.
Grand Theft Auto is rated M for Mature, which is no under 17 consumers. Whilst it is not law, to abide by these ratings systems, they were put in place to protect younger consumers from graphic media and messages. Someone who is 11 should not be playing it at all regardless of his interpreted maturity as it contains content which is unwholesome for someone of that age.Lol, there is nothing immoral about fictional video games. Just make sure that children understand the difference between video games and the real world.
My little cousin who is staying with me is 11 and loves grand theft auto, he plays it pretty much all day. But he doesn't go out and run over hookers or rob people when i take him to the park.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?