Are Catholics Saved?

Benedicta00 · Oct 25, 2003

Bayhawks83 said:
True children of God are, according to the Scriptures, forever saved and eternally secure because:

They are born again of incorruptible seed which yields the fruit of everlasting life (l Peter 1:23).

They stand before God clothed in the imputed (credited) righteousness of Christ, and not in their own (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:19-21).

His sheep have been given eternal lifethey shall never perish (John 10:28).

Their eternal lives are forever hid with Christ in God (Colossians 3:1-3).

They are already seated in the heavenlies in Christ (Ephesians 1:3; 2:6).

The penalty for all their sin has been forever settled through the perfect and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 4:23-5:2; 5:6-9).

Loss of reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ is certain for the careless Christians, but not loss of salvation (l Corinthians 3:10-15).

God faithfully chastens all of His children, even to the point of taking home those who refuse their Heavenly Father's correction (Hebrews 12:6-11; 1 Corinthians 5:1-5; 11:28-32).

They have already been delivered from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 1:9,10; 5:8-10).

They are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30; Romans 8:23).

The Lord knoweth them that are His; false professors will be revealed as such at the White Throne Judgment (2 Timothy 2:19; Revelation 20 ~ 15; Matthew 7:21-23).

God is the one Who has begun the good work in the believer, and He has promised to perform it until the day of Jesus Christ; they are to "work out," not "work for "their salvation (Philippians 1:6; 2:12,13).

They are already living stones in the spiritual building of God of which Christ Himself is the Chief Cornerstone (l Peter 2:5; Ephesians 2:20-22).

They are members of the Body of Christ, each with a peculiar function and without each one, the Body would not be complete (l Corinthians 12:12-27).

They are kept by the power of God, through faith, not through the efforts or the works of the one who is saved. (l Peter 1:5).

Their incorruptible, everlasting inheritance is reserved for them by God (l Peter l:l-4).

They are God the Father's irrevocable gift to God the Son (John 17:6,7).

Backsliding is a sin, but the blood of Jesus Christ, God's Son, cleanses us from all sin (l John 1:7-9).

He is able to save them to the uttermost because Christ "ever liveth to make intercession for them" (Hebrews 7:25).

They are upon trusting Christ made "accepted in the Beloved" (Ephesians 1:6).

Nothing can separate them from the love of Christ (Romans 8:38-39).

By one offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified (Hebrews 10:10-14).

They cannot be unborn (John 3:6-8).

Christ dwelleth in them for ever (2 John 2). No man can pluck the Christian out of His Father's hand, and that necessarily includes the believer himself (John 10:29).

All who are justified are finally glorifiednone are lost along the way (Romans 8:28-30).

In their flesh dwelleth no good thing; they are saved by grace (undeserved favor) and not by their own works (Ephesians 2:8, 9). Æ The gifts and calling of God are without repentance; God will never annul His promise or cast out those who have come unto Him through Christ (Romans 11:29; John 6:37;17:2).

http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0484.htm

Hi Babyhawks,

Did you realize that these verses refer to justification and not salvation? Baptism justifies, so once justified always justified but justification is not the same thing as salvation.

Salvation comes to us after we have persevered to the end and we are actually saved, meaning we're with God. That is the only salvation that matters anyway. We do have a rock solid assurance because Jesus redeemed the world and we were baptized into his death and resurrection, that is where our assurance lyes, in Christ.

So we do have the hope of glory living in us if we do not make a shipwreck of our faith. I will go to haven because I have been justified to go there by the blood of Jesus Christ. That is an assurance, providing I do not opt to live a life of mortal unrepentant sin unto death, do you really disagree that this is how it works? That we are justified always, but can choose sin over heaven? That is what your scripture mean.

MariaRegina · Oct 25, 2003

Michelle:

Please check your last paragraph:

The Church is a haven for us sinners who hope to go to heaven.

Benedicta00 · Oct 25, 2003

chanter said:
Michelle:

Please check your last paragraph:

The Church is a haven for us sinners who hope to go to heaven.

Okay, I did and...

Yes I agree the Church is a haven for those who want to go to heaven.

PS, I named my only girl Haven.

Bayhawks83 · Oct 25, 2003

Shelb5, my name is not Babyhawks, its Bay-hawks

hunterjumper35 · Oct 25, 2003

yes, catholics are saved.

Plan 9 · Oct 25, 2003

Someone once wrote my user name as Plan 5, but life goes on and we all make typos...

Bayhawks, you're off-topic and it can also be impolite to debate people in their own fora. why don't you start a OSAS thread in IDD?

Benedicta00 · Oct 25, 2003

Bayhawks83 said:
Shelb5, my name is not Babyhawks, its Bay-hawks

Sorry.

Benedicta00 · Oct 25, 2003

Axion said:
This is a new one. I'd not heard that before. You have two selves???

Axion,

Sorry to answer this so late. I know of a Calvin guy who explained it to me this way; he says that in Romans when Paul says that he does what he doesnt want and doesnt do what he wants, he means that your spirit is saved and perfected and when you sin it says in the old nature and that old nature always battles with the new saved spirit and when you die you shed the old man and your spirit which always remained pure with no sin goes straight into heaven.

When you get saved it is your spirit that gets saved while the old man remains with you which is your flesh and if you sin, it is he sinning and not your new spirit, this is supposedly why Paul wrote about his struggle with sin so much, acording this person.

He says you must put off the old man and put on the new man, that is what it is to walk according to the spirit. He actually compared us to schizophrenics and said in a sense that is what a saved Christian is.

No, I am not making this up. This person explained it that way. He also says this is why there is not such thing as purgatory and why there is no need to repent of our sins and imperfections because thay stay in our "dead" flesh and when we die we shed the flesh and our spirit that we were given when we were born again and saved goes to heaven while our sins and imperfections die with the flesh.

MariaRegina · Oct 25, 2003

Shelb5 said:
Axion,

Sorry to answer this so late. I know of a Calvin guy who explained it to me this way; he says that in Romans when Paul says that he does what he doesnt want and doesnt do what he wants, he means that your spirit is saved and perfected and when you sin it says in the old nature and that old nature always battles with the new saved spirit and when you die you shed the old man and your spirit which always remained pure with no sin goes straight into heaven.

When you get saved it is your spirit that gets saved while the old man remains with you which is your flesh and if you sin, it is he sinning and not your new spirit, this is supposedly why Paul wrote about his struggle with sin so much, acording this person.

He says you must put off the old man and put on the new man, that is what it is to walk according to the spirit. He actually compared us to schizophrenics and said in a sense that is what a saved Christian is.

No, I am not making this up. This person explained it that way. He also says this is why there is not such thing as purgatory and why there is no need to repent of our sins and imperfections because thay stay in our "dead" flesh and when we die we shed the flesh and our spirit that we were given when we were born again and saved goes to heaven while our sins and imperfections die with the flesh.

That does sound schizophrenic or a case of multiple identities.

St. Paul was describing the struggle he experiences. All good Christians struggle to avoid sin. If we stop struggling, then we sin. We have to finish the race and then we will have earned the prize.

Benedicta00 · Oct 25, 2003

chanter said:
That does sound schizophrenic or a case of multiple identities.

St. Paul was describing the struggle he experiences. All good Christians struggle to avoid sin. If we stop struggling, then we sin. We have to finish the race and then we will have earned the prize.

Yes, but with this particular belief it combines the best of both worlds. You sin in one person who was put to death by Jesus and it never reaches the other person which is who Christ gave you at regeneration.

MariaRegina · Oct 25, 2003

hunterjumper35 said:
yes, catholics are saved.

Boldly proclaim this:

Yes, Catholics are saved

What a shock some protestants are going to get when they approach the pearly gates! LOL Low and behold, it's already full of Catholics and Orthodox saints and ... hopefully you all too.

MariaRegina · Oct 25, 2003

Shelb5 said:
Yes, but with this particular belief it combines the best of both worlds. You sin in one person who was put to death by Jesus and it never reaches the other person which is who Christ gave you at regeneration.

Boy, that would give a person free license to sin! Wow! Hope too many people don't believe it.

Plan 9 · Oct 25, 2003

It's the first time I've ever heard it, so I hope so, too. That's a strange idea. I have tons of Southern Baptist relatives who believe OSAS, but none of them believe that, nor do they believe that they have a license to sin. They work very, very hard to live good lives.

This is just my opinion, but I think that the OSAS doctrine is a reaction to the opposite extreme, in which people run up to the altar every time they believe they have committed the tiniest sin, believing that they must start fresh.
I think Protestants would be better of without this confusion between venial and mortal sins.
Look at some of the thread titles here and I think you'll see what I mean: "Is it a sin to go rollerskating?"
Twenty pages of opinions later, no one agrees.

You know, if you think this post is stupid, I can go back to lurking with no problem.

Benedicta00 · Oct 25, 2003

chanter said:
Boy, that would give a person free license to sin! Wow! Hope too many people don't believe it.

Well no because if you willingly sin you were never really saved I the first place. That's how that works.

Benedicta00 · Oct 25, 2003

Plan 9 said:
It's the first time I've ever heard it, so I hope so, too. That's a strange idea. I have tons of Southern Baptist relatives who believe OSAS, but none of them believe that, nor do they believe that they have a license to sin. They work very, very hard to live good lives.

This is just my opinion, but I think that the OSAS doctrine is a reaction to the opposite extreme, in which people run up to the altar every time they believe they have committed the tiniest sin, believing that they must start fresh.
I think Protestants would be better of without this confusion between venial and mortal sins.
Look at some of the thread titles here and I think you'll see what I mean: "Is it a sin to go rollerskating?"
Twenty pages of opinions later, no one agrees.

You know, if you think this post is stupid, I can go back to lurking with no problem.

The person who shard with me his insight into the scriptures is a southern Baptist convention member but I think his ideas are his very own if you know what I mean. He interprets it the way he wants to.

MariaRegina · Oct 25, 2003

Shelb5 said:
Well no because if you willingly sin you were never really saved I the first place. That's how that works.

So when you use the word sin, you are referring to faults, indeliberate sins and unknown sins, which we would not have committed if we knew beforehand.

billwald · Oct 25, 2003

Probably the same percentages of Catholics and protestants are saved.

Plan 9 · Oct 25, 2003

Shelb5 said:
The person who shard with me his insight into the scriptures is a southern Baptist convention member but I think his ideas are his very own if you know what I mean. He interprets it the way he wants to.

Oh, I feel sure you're right. That is so weird. He just suddenly skateboards from the usual doctrinal stance into another reality. *insert Twilight Zone music here*

Yet, he doesn't know what schizophrenia is.

BAChristian · Oct 25, 2003

Shelb5 said:
He interprets it the way he wants to.

MariaRegina · Oct 25, 2003

Plan 9 said:
...This is just my opinion, but I think that the OSAS doctrine is a reaction to the opposite extreme, in which people run up to the altar every time they believe they have committed the tiniest sin, believing that they must start fresh.
I think Protestants would be better of without this confusion between venial and mortal sins.
Look at some of the thread titles here and I think you'll see what I mean: "Is it a sin to go rollerskating?"
Twenty pages of opinions later, no one agrees.

After Constantine the Great issued his edit of tolerance, the Christians were free to worship. The Church was faced with a serious problem. Thousands of former Christians who had denied their faith to save their necks suddenly came back to the Church seeking forgiveness. At first some of the Bishops said that you could only be baptized once, and that if you committed the sin of apostacy, well, you were just out of luck. Other Bishops said that you could commit apostacy once but if you failed again, then your salvation was uncertain, to put it mildly.

St. Constantine was baptized on his deathbed because of this uncertainty. He didn't want to use up his "one free ticket" to heaven by falling into sin.

St. Augustine was also baptized later in life, after he had learned to control himself.

The ancient Catholic and Apostolic Church really struggled over this issue of "once saved, always saved" and finally came to the conclusion that sins committed after Baptism (even deliberate serious sins) could be forgiven IF THE PERSON WAS SINCERELY REPENTANT and confessed them in sorrow in Holy Confession. It's not easy to confess one's sins before a Priest. It's not easy to look him in the eye and say "I'm sorry." It takes guts and the gift of the Holy Spirit, without which, we could never repent.

That's why when a person deliberately falls into sin, he can not presume that he is going to receive the grace of repentance. He might not. He could become a hardened sinner and die in the gas chamber.

We must love God with all our heart and soul, and love our neighbor as ourselves. We must detest all sin and promptly repent whenever we commit the slightest sin.

This is the daily struggle of the true Christian.

Hope this helps.

Elizabeth

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