ByTheSpirit
Come Lord Jesus
- May 17, 2011
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Like you, Pete, I am free to express my opinions. And, sure, that's why I chose the Vineyard over CC even though I know the Vineyard is not perfect. Furthermore, the Vineyard, as far as I know, has no concrete eschatological views and are more interested in the Kingdom as being present tense than future tense. Anyhow, I just fit better in the Vineyard. Unlike this forum, they put up with me.
Like you, Pete, I am free to express my opinions. And, sure, that's why I chose the Vineyard over CC even though I know the Vineyard is not perfect. Furthermore, the Vineyard, as far as I know, has no concrete eschatological views and are more interested in the Kingdom as being present tense than future tense. Anyhow, I just fit better in the Vineyard. Unlike this forum, they put up with me.
Or, maybe, all about his interpretation of the Bible. There is a difference--Jehovah's Witnesses are all about the Bible, too.
Of course he did/does. I am not saying he was a bad man or erroneous, nor that John Wimber was right and he wrong. I am simply saying that he approached the Bible in a different way than I do and interpreted some things differently. For that matter, so did Wimber.Well, Chuck had/has quite a good reputation.
Of course he did/does. I am not saying he was a bad man or erroneous, nor that John Wimber was right and he wrong. I am simply saying that he approached the Bible in a different way than I do and interpreted some things differently. For that matter, so did Wimber.It is not that he was wrong and I am rightwe both may be wrong, and its possible that we both may be right. But to like anyone because they agree with you or love what you love is not sufficient reason to venerate them.
Bing Dictionary
ven·er·ate
[ vénnə ràyt ]
1.respect somebody: to regard somebody with profound respect or reverence
2.honor somebody or something: to honor somebody or something as sacred or special
Most Vineyard pastors, at least here in my neck of the woods, came out of the Assembly of God and are not Calvinist, although I know a few that have Calvinist leanings, even one who was a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary (Jack Deeres old alma mater). It is just not a subject that comes up among us.Jim, You just responded to a post I made over 2 years ago!
I agree, you are, and should be, free to express your opinions, even two years later.And unlike you, I won't call your right to express an opinion "condescending arrogance"
I like both the Vineyard and Calvary Chapel, and have belonged to both in the past for a combined total of over ten years.
My experience with the Vineyard has been that they lean heavily towards post-millennial and latter rain beliefs, which does result in a more 'kingdom now' focus.
In fact this is one of the few areas that I disagreed with the Vineyard, but I put up with it, just like I put up with Jim, and I generally preferred the Vineyard over CC in most ways.
I thought Vineyard pastors mostly lean towards Calvinism, where CC pastors mostly lean towards Arminianism, so I'd think that as you are an Arminian Vineyard pastor you'd be in a minority in that regard at least?
peace,
Simon
I had to look that one up:
Most Vineyard pastors, at least here in my neck of the woods, came out of the Assembly of God and are not Calvinist, although I know a few that have Calvinist leanings, even one who was a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary (Jack Deeres old alma mater). It is just not a subject that comes up among us.
As far as the kingdom now doctrine, I think that is a misunderstanding of what the Vineyard teaches. While the Vineyard believes that we frequently experience the presence of the kingdom (now), it is more of a now but not yet viewin other words, we experience ebbs and flows of the kingdom but we are also waiting for the kingdom to come in its fullness. This is core to what the AVC believes. Do not confuse us with those who teach Kingdom Now/Dominion theology.
At least, that has been my experience.
...
My experience with the Vineyard has been that they lean heavily towards post-millennial and latter rain beliefs, which does result in a more 'kingdom now' focus.
I thought Vineyard pastors mostly lean towards Calvinism, where CC pastors mostly lean towards Arminianism, ...
Well, Chuck had/has quite a good reputation.
Chuck Smith was an easy to get long with kind of man ... he was all about, "Feed my sheep" "Feed my lambs".
I look forward to meeting him in heaven ...
...
As far as the kingdom now doctrine, I think that is a misunderstanding of what the Vineyard teaches. While the Vineyard believes that we frequently experience the presence of the kingdom (now), it is more of a now but not yet viewin other words, we experience ebbs and flows of the kingdom but we are also waiting for the kingdom to come in its fullness. This is core to what the AVC believes. Do not confuse us with those who teach Kingdom Now/Dominion theology.
At least, that has been my experience.
Like any church both have good/not so good churches. The one I attended in Whittier and in San Bernardino, Calif were good. One that I attended in central FL was a bit scary.
But to like anyone because they agree with you or love what you love is not sufficient reason to venerate them.
Thats one view. Personally, I think the kingdom is here in reality, just not yet in its fullness. When I pray, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, I am not praying for a mystery, I am praying that Gods kingdom and will be done literally.The Kingdom of God is here, in mystery, and it's coming, in reality.
I put with you Jim! You're my homeboy!Seriously, not everyone here despises you
I go to a Calvary Chapel myself.
I believe the Vineyard is the result of a split between Chuck Smith and John Wimber in the 70's. I don't know enough what the differences are, but if they were the same, then there would have been no need for a split.
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