Are Calvary Chapel and Vineyard virtually the same?

[Always in His Presence]

If you genuinely don't have any idea what you believe about the end times, I would challenge you to ask God for guidance and to read a few passages or books, and you just never know, God may bring about reformation, or at least open your eyes to scriptures you've not understood before. And one passage can often throw light on another, even revealing deeper meaning to salvation, sanctification, the Godhead etc.


peace,
simon

Um.... I taught Escotology, so I would say I have specific beliefs about end times. It would be hard to teach a subject that you have not studied out, nor could I get my Maters degree in Theology without having studied Escotology.

But thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Yitzchak]

CC churches are a little like a toned down more mellow version of an Assembly of God Church. Vineyard is a little like a more Charismatic slightly hippie/Jesus movement version of an Assembly of God Church.

 

[Simon Peter]

Um.... I taught Escotology, so I would say I have specific beliefs about end times. It would be hard to teach a subject that you have not studied out, nor could I get my Maters degree in Theology without having studied Escotology.

But thanks for the suggestions.

Ummm...If you've taught eschatology, and have a degree in theology, how on earth can you claim that the many issues associated with the end times amount to less than ONE percent of the faith. And why would 'TEN' percent of your course be on 'ONE' percent of the tenets?

Could it be your whole 'pan-millennial' song and dance was because I correctly guessed that you are post-millennial, and you just didn't want to admit it?

Fine...I usually observe that post-millennials/A-millennials like to marginalize the end times as much as possible. I guess it's embarassing for them to come out of the closet about their belief in Replacement Theology and that Revelation is a history book etc...

If you've taught end times, why do you refuse to say WHAT you've taught?
Is it so controversial that you have to keep it behind closed doors?
Is your teaching only for the enlightened few?

Why the big secret?




peace,
Simon

 

[JimB]

Ummm...If you've taught eschatology, and have a degree in theology, how on earth can you claim that the many issues associated with the end times amount to less than ONE percent of the faith. And why would 'TEN' percent of your course be on 'ONE' percent of the tenets?

Could it be your whole 'pan-millennial' song and dance was because I correctly guessed that you are post-millennial, and you just didn't want to admit it?

Fine...I usually observe that post-millennials/A-millennials like to marginalize the end times as much as possible. I guess it's embarassing for them to come out of the closet about their belief in Replacement Theology and that Revelation is a history book etc...

*****

peace,
Simon

Hmmmm. Could be. Or maybe they don’t come out of the closet because if they did they would have to face condescending dispensational arrogance like this.

Just sayin’.

~Jim

 

[Simon Peter]

Hmmmm. Could be. Or maybe they don’t come out of the closet because if they did they would have to face condescending dispensational arrogance like this.

Just sayin’.

~Jim

And this is why you are a Vineyard Pastor and not a Calvary Chapel Pastor, which was my original point:

There is a difference between between CC and Vineyard end times beliefs, and it effects a whole lot more theology than less then ONE percent.


ps. If having and expressing an opinion is "condescending arrogance" then you should revisit some of your own posts Jim.

(that uncomfortable feeling in your eye just could be a splinter)

peace,
Simon

 

[Ajax 777]

And this is why you are a Vineyard Pastor and not a Calvary Chapel Pastor, which was my original point:

There is a difference between between CC and Vineyard end times beliefs, and it effects a whole lot more theology than less then ONE percent.


ps. If having and expressing an opinion is "condescending arrogance" then you should revisit some of your own posts Jim.

(that uncomfortable feeling in your eye just could be a splinter)

peace,
Simon

 

[Always in His Presence]

Why the big secret?


peace,
Simon

Two reasons:

1. It is not the topic of this thread

2. I'm having fun watching you tie yourself in knots over it.

You are so desperate to prove a theological point, you have lowered yourself to trying to belittle someone into a verbal confrontation.
You're so focused on end times, that it might just be possible you are missing out on what God is doing now.

 

[Always in His Presence]

And this is why you are a Vineyard Pastor and not a Calvary Chapel Pastor, which was my original point:

There is a difference between between CC and Vineyard end times beliefs, and it effects a whole lot more theology than less then ONE percent.


ps. If having and expressing an opinion is "condescending arrogance" then you should revisit some of your own posts Jim.

(that uncomfortable feeling in your eye just could be a splinter)

peace,
Simon

 

[Simon Peter]

Two reasons:

1. It is not the topic of this thread

2. I'm having fun watching you tie yourself in knots over it.

You are so desperate to prove a theological point, you have lowered yourself to trying to belittle someone into a verbal confrontation.

The only point I'm trying to prove is that you made claims that are just not true. And you refuse - or are unable - to back up those claims.

1. The topic of this thread is: 'Are CC and Vineyard virtually the same?'

You've claimed:

There is really no difference at all.
...
End time theology is really a small part of a movements tenants of faith. It's the 1% I alluded to...

I disagree on both counts.
There is a difference, which is why they split.
And end times theology does NOT constitute less than 1% of the tenets of faith.

Where's my knots? My position is straight-forward and simple.

However, ironically, you are the one tying yourself in knots by constantly trying to change the subject - introducing strawmen - and refusing to back up your two ridiculous assertions.


peace,
Simon

 

[Always in His Presence]

Okie Dokie!

 

[crixus]

There are differences between Calvary Chapel and Vineyard, with the main one being that Vineyard is much more charismatic. And that's why I prefer Calvary Chapel, where it's more about studying the word of God. IMHO, the Vineyard folks tend to get carried away with the show (i.e. tongues, signs and wonders, etc.)

 

[NorrinRadd]

... That was ages ago when Tom Stipe was the MC. He is a great teacher and I think later moved on to Vineyard. ...

Yes, last I heard, Tom Stipe was affiliated with the Vineyard. He contributed a chapter to the 1988 book Power Encounters edited by Kevin Springer.

 

[NorrinRadd]

CC began as an outreach by Chuck Smith, at the time ordained as a Foursquare pastor, to hippies in the '60s. It always had as part of its mission to bring together diverse groups, and to be welcoming to various disaffected sorts. However in more recent years it has become more traditionally "fundamentalist," and some of Smith's comments could sound more confrontational than inviting.

The Vineyard began in the early '80s, when CC pastor John Wimber began embracing a looser and more experiential form of Charismaticism than CC found acceptable.

Both CC and Vineyard have considerable variability among local congregations.

CC has some explicit core beliefs and practices beyond the simple Statement of Faith. Good resources for interested parties are the booklet What Calvary Chapel Believes, by Larry Taylor; and Calvary Chapel Distinctives, Charisma vs. Charismania, and Calvinism, Arminianism, and the Word of God, all by Chuck Smith.

As for the Vineyard, beyond their generic SoF, you can probably find their stance on specific issues by obtaining materials from their publishing arm, "Vineyard International Publishing." In addition to various books, they feature official "position papers" addressing matters of controversy.

In addition to theological differences concerning eschatology and practical differences regarding the operation of spiritual gifts, the two differ on ecclesiology in regard to the roles permissible to women; CC rules them out of pastoral ministry, and in fact considers that point so important that it is part of their SoF, while the Vineyard accepts women as pastors (I know this because one of my female high school classmates pastors a Vineyard church in Ohio).

 

[NorrinRadd]

Um.... I taught Escotology, ...

Did you spell it that way when you taught it?

 

[geetrue]

There are differences between Calvary Chapel and Vineyard, with the main one being that Vineyard is much more charismatic. And that's why I prefer Calvary Chapel, where it's more about studying the word of God. IMHO, the Vineyard folks tend to get carried away with the show (i.e. tongues, signs and wonders, etc.)

Same thought patterns here, but I have heard people at Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa speaking in tongues and I have been very blessed at Calvary Chapel after glow meetings, after the main service, on Wednesday nights and one pastor said (after I asked for a little help for gas money), "We don't as a rule give out money at Calvary Chapel" and then he reached into his pocket and handed me a $10 bill.

I use to attend Tuesday nights when Greg Laurie was there who is always a great time when he was there ...

Vineyard of Orange County was okay, but every one kept wanting to lay hands on me and I didn't like that, plus little children were running all over the place unsupervised.

 

[Alpine]

*chuckles* Hey, first time I've seen this thread and I'm laughing knowing the OP doesn't go to the CC plant anymore but yet this thread lives on! :-D

 

[NorrinRadd]

D'oh! I never think to look at the dates of posts.

 

[Frogster]

I like how Chuck was all about the Bible.

 

[JimB]

I like how Chuck was all about the Bible.

Or, maybe, all about his interpretation of the Bible. There is a difference--Jehovah's Witnesses are all about the Bible, too.

 

[JimB]

And this is why you are a Vineyard Pastor and not a Calvary Chapel Pastor, which was my original point:

There is a difference between between CC and Vineyard end times beliefs, and it effects a whole lot more theology than less then ONE percent.


ps. If having and expressing an opinion is "condescending arrogance" then you should revisit some of your own posts Jim.

(that uncomfortable feeling in your eye just could be a splinter)

peace,
Simon

Like you, Pete, I am free to express my opinions. And, sure, that's why I chose the Vineyard over CC even though I know the Vineyard is not perfect. Furthermore, the Vineyard, as far as I know, has no concrete eschatological views and are more interested in the Kingdom as being present tense than future tense. Anyhow, I just fit better in the Vineyard. Unlike this forum, they put up with me.