Are Baptists OSAS?

[MbiaJc]

Teach me more MbiaJc,

And if no one prays for your salvation how is the even playing field set up? Or is the even playing field only for those man chooses to pray for? So some get the even playing field and some don't and the choice is up to who again? So why again do you pray for your love ones salvation?

You are being down right silly. I know what you are getting at. You don't believe man has free will, that your privilage. I do however and that my privlage. Prove your point with scripture if you can.

What you think is that man is a robot and God is a robot maker. God didn't make man that way. He wonts is man to choose, Him of his own free will, above everything else on earth in heaven and under the earth. If God decides He won't robots He can cause the rocks to worship Him.

Where is your robot in these scriptures:

Does God elect, from eternity past, certain sinners to salvation, or does man have the ability to choose/believe. What saith the scripture?

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


The Old Testament Jews, who were part of the elect nation had a personal/individual obligation to "choose" to follow the dictates of the law.

The fact that man can and does "choose" whether or not to obey/accept God is absolutely clear from scripture, which no gymnastics required.

Proverbs 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Proverbs 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

The option is there, the choice is for man. When he does not choose the fear of the Lord he is guilty. When he stands before the Lord at judgement he will be guilty.

Have you ever considered "guilt"? God is sovereign, an earthly king is called a sovereign. God gave the Law, an earthly king makes laws. God set's the punishment for man's failure to follow the Law (believe in Christ), an earthly king sets the punishment for failure to follow his law. In both cases the sovereign one is just. They say, "Here are the rules boys, follow them and live in peace. Break them and pay the price." Allowing for this option makes neither of them "not sovereign" (albeit God on a grander scale of course), to lay out peace and punishment is righteous. When you take away choice and inflict punishment upon those who have no alternative then you become (in human terms) a Saddam Husein.

Isaiah 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. (pre-crucifixion even)

Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

How can OSAS coexist with free will? If one has free will can he not choose to rebuke Gods Grace and return to the flesh? Or is free will only a temporary thing?

It is verry easy for Jesus said what the Father had given Him nothing could pluck them out of His hand.

If man is to weak to fight the devils temptation without the help of God is he strong enough to fight Gods offer of grace? Is the devil stronger than God? Adam had true free will, no interference from God. Just one sin for Adam to say no to. How about you MbiaJc could you say no to the devil without Gods help?

What has that got to do with OSAS? You are being rediclous.

Of course man can't resist the devil with out God's help. However that does not eliminate free will or OSAS.

Would any man in his right mind turn down eternal life for eternal damnation if he was free to choose?

Yes! Some do it everyday.

So where does faith come from, is it taught? Is faith something man is born with? Why do some have faith and some don't?

There again your questions are rediclous. Mans faith is not what saves him, it is the faith of Jesus Christ that saves us. Salvation is a gift of God to the ones that Choose His gift. Salvation is offered to all there is no excuse for man whether he has heard the gospel or not for God says He is seen in His handerwork.

We are saved by the grace of God through the faith of Jesus Christ. God only gives it to the ones that He knows will never deny Him.

Here is God's Purpose of Grace

Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility.

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

Ask sinsible questions or don't ask any. Or give scripture to prove man does not have free will if you can.

If you don't believe in mans free will that your privilage. You are not going to change my belief if that what you are trying to do.

So prove your point or the debate is over.

 

[Fat]

MbiaJc,

You are being down right silly. I know what you are getting at. You don't believe man has free will, that your privilage. I do however and that my privlage. Prove your point with scripture if you can.

Here we go again from post #18

Romans 9:9 *For this is the statement of the promise: At this time I will come, and Sarah will have a son. 10 And not only that, but also when Rebekah became pregnant by Isaac our forefather 11 for though they had not been born yet or done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to election might stand, 12 not from works but from the One who calls) she was told: The older will serve the younger. 13 As it is written: Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.

14 What should we say then? Is there injustice with God? Absolutely not! 15 For He tells Moses: I will show mercy to whom I show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16 So then it does not depend on human will or effort, but on God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture tells Pharaoh: For this reason I raised you up: so that I may display My power in you, and that My name may be proclaimed in all the earth. 18 So then, He shows mercy to whom He wills, and He hardens whom He wills. 19 You will say to me, therefore, "Why then does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?" 20 But who are you--anyone who talks back to God? Will what is formed say to the one who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" 21*Or has the potter no right over His clay, to make from the same lump one piece of pottery for honor and another for dishonor? 22*And what if God, desiring to display His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience objects of wrath ready for destruction? 23*And what if He did this to make known the riches of His glory on objects of mercy that He prepared beforehand for glory--

The theologian Otto Heick describes Arminianism as an oxymoron, an "absolute conditionalism":

"God in his decrees is conditioned by man's free will -
Man in his search for salvation is conditioned by God's grace".

If you want me to run election on the search engine it could be done but I tire of cut and post scripture you have rejected what Paul teaches and like you said it is your right not to believe.

It is verry easy for Jesus said what the Father had given Him nothing could pluck them out of His hand.

= no free well, thank you. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.” CLUE!

Of course man can't resist the devil with out God's help. However that does not eliminate free will or OSAS.

really?

We are saved by the grace of God through the faith of Jesus Christ. God only gives it to the ones that He knows will never deny Him.

Heick was right I see. Glad that's not election

So prove your point or the debate is over.

Debate... surely you jest.

 

[graysparrow]

Er... just 2 points

1.- You are not listening to each other.

2.- I'm off

 

[SumTinWong]

Let me re-ask the question...

Are there baptist who believe in OSAS and baptists who don't?

Yes. I am a Baptist and I am not convinced as of yet, about OSAS. The church I attend believes in it.

Are those divided by denominations or is something that is left to each believer?

It is taught by most Baptist churches I think, but I think it is up to the believer to decide.

 

[stjeremiah]

Free to belive what they want or want?

It's just that same sound like calvinists to me and some don't...

so what do baptists believe aboust salvation?

I am a Christian first and a Independent Fundamentalist Baptist second.

Grace Baptist of Salt Lake City, UT constitutional includes that a Christian cannot loose their salvation.

I was born again in a Southern Baptist Church in the early 70's...but my parents left shortly after a split over the Pastor Lambert's divorce....not that he divorced his wife, she divorced him because she was tired of serving her husband because he was blind. Some of the Church felt the divorce felt he was disqualified to be a Pastor. My parents side with those who said it shouldn't matter...he did not initiate the divorce.

My dad found this as a convient out to quit going to Church. But Mom persisted to find a Church. Our new neighbors the Hunts invited me and my borthers to attend the Angels Camp Community Church of the Nazarene. It was while I was there I learned about Arminianism.....without knowing what it was. Pastor Ragsdale taught free will and that a Christian can fall from grace and loose their salvation. Though I accepted the standard text used to prove this doctrine...I was troubled by many other vereses that said my salvation was eternally secure.

Eventually my whole family became members of this Nazarene Church. I was so much in doubt of my salvation that I was going forward nearly every altar called to the mourners bench believing I had fallen from grace for having thoughts of lust for a classmate, for loosing my temper, for fighting with my brothers, for disobeying my mom...ect, ect, ect. I was declared saved so many times during my four years there....that I lost count.

When I graduated in 77 and joined the Army after several failed attempts to start life on my own....I gave up trying to stay saved and turned to materialism. I would fill my life with what my poverty growing up denied me and to quit thinking about God.

But one day I had all that I wanted...but I was bored and restless. I rumaged around my locker for my Bible to read. I dusted it off and prayed to God for an answer to whether He rejected me or not. The first place my Bible fell open to was Treasures in Heaven in Matthew 6:19-20. So I asked God how this could be possible if I can loose my salvation. There is no way I could be sure I would have treasures if I died in a state of falling from grace. The next text the Holy Spirit gave was Romans 8:28-39 where I was predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son and am more than conquerors through him who loved us.

From that time forward...I grew confident that I could not fall from grace and that Jesus had secured my salvation. I took those small hand full of problem text that caused me doubt and uncertianty...and put them on the back burner until I knew enough about the Bible as a whole...to study them out and find out what they actually ment...not what Pastor Ragsdale said they ment.

The Lord further confirmed the OSAS doctrine by providentually getting John R. Rice's booklet "Know So Salvation" published by the Sword of the Lord. For over 30 years I can sing with confidence Fanny Crosby's hymn "Blessed Assurance Jesus is mine...Oh what a foretaste of glory divine."

My security verse is I John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

As to those pesky verses that troubled me...I have since learned that with careful study they do not teach what they appear when they are taken out of context.

....being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:6

I have found that Fundimentalist Baptist consistently teach OSAS....

 

[DiscipleOfIAm]

We always get off the "Calvinist" thing don't we? It is the one thing that keeps a lot of us apart. You are Calvinist or you aren't! I'm not, however, I believe some of the points he made and some I feel he was reaching on. But, enough of that!

Anywho, the OP was OSAS? I am in the middle on that one. I had it explained to me by an Evangelical preacher this way: A truly saved person cannot loose their salvation because a truly saved person is incapable of committing a sin that great, but most importantly, we never earned it in the first place. It is a gift and the gift cannot be taken back by God or anyone.

Me, personally, I believe that OSAS as long as YOU want to be. YOU can give the gift back to God and turn against Him. So, OSAS with a disclaimer!

God Bless!

 

[SumTinWong]

Me, personally, I believe that OSAS as long as YOU want to be. YOU can give the gift back to God and turn against Him. So, OSAS with a disclaimer!

God Bless!

That is how I feel!

 

[SteveR2021]

In Ontario there are two Baptist groups...one is predominantly Calvinist. They believe in OSAS. I am part of the other group - this group is a mixed group. We believe in some of Calvin's teachings but we are not Calvinists - some believe in OSAS and others don't.

I'm at a Baptist seminary right now that teaches that we can reject our salvation (in other words they do not agree with OSAS).

 

[MbiaJc]

MbiaJc,



Here we go again from post #18



The theologian Otto Heick describes Arminianism as an oxymoron, an "absolute conditionalism":


If you want me to run election on the search engine it could be done but I tire of cut and post scripture you have rejected what Paul teaches and like you said it is your right not to believe.



= no free well, thank you. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.” CLUE!

really?


Heick was right I see. Glad that's not election


Debate... surely you jest.

If you won't to debate free will start a thread. Please prove your point with scripture and ask revelant questions please. This one is for OSAS.

 

[MbiaJc]

That is how I feel!

Uncle can you be unborn? Can you give the gift of life back to your natural parents?

 

[integra evan]

I don't believe accepting Jesus into your life is a "free ticket" to Heaven. Along with asking Christ into your heart, you have to work for, and glorify Him. You can't just go "Okay, I asked him into my heart. I can do whatever I want to now." That's not how it works. It's not about you. Lets look at Revelation 3:14-22:

14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm–neither hot nor cold–I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

I made verse 16 bold, because I believe it's important. If you are at "idleness," that is considered "lukewarm." God wants you to glorify Him in everything you do, not just say that one acceptance prayer, then go about in your sinful life, with God as one of your lesser priorities. He should be first in your life.

P.S.-I'm a Baptist.

 

[stjeremiah]

I don't believe accepting Jesus into your life is a "free ticket" to Heaven. Along with asking Christ into your heart, you have to work for, and glorify Him. You can't just go "Okay, I asked him into my heart. I can do whatever I want to now." That's not how it works. It's not about you.

Ummmm...excuse me???

Why (and this is not directed to you personal...but in general)...is OSAS equated with lukewarmness, spiritual laziness, indifference, non-involment...ect.?

I have the same Bible as you do. And my Bible says;

For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Epheisans 2:10

I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. Titus 3:8

I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Revelation 3:8

I have found lazy Christian in the "Falling from Grace" position....but I do not make the erronious assumption that this is due to this doctrine....that this the is the reason they are lazy. They are lazy because they under value the grace of God that saved them and do not count the blood of Jesus that cleansed them as very precious. Rather these should motivate a saint in Christ to witness to lost souls, to help the needy, and to be active in their local Church....regardless of doctrinal position.

Lets look at Revelation 3:14-22:

14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm–neither hot nor cold–I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

I made verse 16 bold, because I believe it's important. If you are at "idleness," that is considered "lukewarm." God wants you to glorify Him in everything you do, not just say that one acceptance prayer, then go about in your sinful life, with God as one of your lesser priorities. He should be first in your life.

P.S.-I'm a Baptist.

This is unfair to tie the lukewarmness of Laodicia to OSAS. This is NOT why they were lukewarm. I am offened when you say "do not just say that one acceptance prayer then go about in your sinful life with God as one of your lesser priorities" You have just judged alot of sincere Christians who hold OSAS as great sinners, carnal Christians, who could careless about God. You better recheck your assumptions....because they are way, way off base!
I work real hard on this mission field in Salt Lake City. My motivation for my work is the blessing to know I am secure in Christ Jesus. I want to lead others to this same hope and confidence I have in Christ Jesus that God's wrath has passed and that heaven awaits us as our eternal home.

When I went to the Nazarene Church I spent more time at the mourners beach than I did sharing the gospel. I was self absorbed with constant introspection to try to root out every sinful desire that would keep me from being in God's favor for that week. I had no rest, I had no peace, I had no assurence that God had accepted me on the basis of Christs finished work on the cross. I was driven to make up with my own self effort to please God with my works. But all of my hopes would be dashed the next Sunday with sermons emphasizing that if some sin remained unconfessed, some work for God was not done, if I entertained some lustful thought, if I broke some Law from God's word...that God was not pleased and I could reject Jesus as my Lord....and God would be just to send me to hell for departing from His grace.

We believe that all persons, though in the possession of the experience of regeneration and entire sanctification, may fall from grace and apostatize and, unless they repent of their sins, be hopelessly and eternally lost.


We believe that actual or personal sin is a voluntary violation of a known law of God by a morally responsible person. It is therefore not to be confused with involuntary and inescapable shortcomings, infirmities, faults, mistakes, failures, or other deviations from a standard of perfect conduct that are the residual effects of the Fall. However, such innocent effects do not include attitudes or responses contrary to the spirit of Christ, which may properly be called sins of the spirit. We believe that personal sin is primarily and essentially a violation of the law of love; and that in relation to Christ sin may be defined as unbelief.

Constitution of the Church of the Nazarene the Articles of Faith

Then would come the hymn "I surrender all" and the call to come forward to get right with God...to confess my sins and ask Jesus into my heart so I could be saved. The Holy Spirit, I was told, would not take up residence into my life until I was fully committed to God. That the baptism of the Holy Spirit was a second work of grace that I was not ready to receive.

We believe that entire sanctification is that act of God, subsequent to regeneration, by which believers are made free from original sin, or depravity, and brought into a state of entire devotement to God, and the holy obedience of love made perfect.
It is wrought by the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and comprehends in one experience the cleansing of the heart from sin and the abiding, indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, empowering the believer for life and service.

Entire sanctification is provided by the blood of Jesus, is wrought instantaneously by faith, preceded by entire consecration; and to this work and state of grace the Holy Spirit bears witness.

This experience is also known by various terms representing its different phases, such as "Christian perfection," "perfect love," "heart purity," "the baptism with the Holy Spirit," "the fullness of the blessing," and "Christian holiness."

Ibid

But when I read from the Bible;

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one." John 10:28 & 29

I knew I was safe in Christ Jesus. That holiness, righteousness and purity was the work of the Holy Spirit I had received when I was born again on March 22, 1971. That sanctification was not entire and complete at my new birth....but was a process as I would mature into the image of Christ. God would use His word....not a bludgeon to beat me into submission...but as an aid to sanctify me;

They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctifythem by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. John 17:16-19

And Jesus and the Holy Spirit were working on my behalf to sanctify me;

you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I Corinthians 6:11

But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13

OSAS makes me a better son of God, it motivated me to serve the Lord out of joy and delight. I am not burdened and weighed down with guilty that some how I have have left some sin unconfessed, or had some inpure thought, or failed to do some good deed that would undo the work of God redeeming my soul with the precious blood of Christ upon the cross when He cried "IT IS FINISHED!"

This is why I can sing;

Blessèd assurance, Jesus is mine!
O what a foretaste of glory divine!
Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.

Refrain

This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior, all the day long;
This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior, all the day long.

Perfect submission, perfect delight,
Visions of rapture now burst on my sight;
Angels descending bring from above
Echoes of mercy, whispers of love.

Refrain

Perfect submission, all is at rest
I in my Savior am happy and blest,
Watching and waiting, looking above,
Filled with His goodness, lost in His love




-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe death is the most blessed thing that can happen to a Christian; but it is not the thing I am looking for. I am looking to see Him. He might come to-morrow, or to-night, or now. Do you not think it would spoil all your plans? Suppose you thought He might come, would it not make a difference in your thoughts? You know it would. J.N. Darby

 

[Fat]

If you won't to debate free will start a thread. Please prove your point with scripture and ask revelant questions please. This one is for OSAS.

Life must be real hard for you my brother. The openning thread reads:

Are Baptists OSAS?

Free to belive what they want or want?

It's just that same sound like calvinists to me and some don't...

so what do baptists believe aboust salvation?

Now I am done with you my freind, I have to go train my gold fish how to hold his breath under water.
God bless you and keep you safe.
Fat

 

[stjeremiah]

So what do baptists believe aboust salvation?

As a Christian who is a Baptist...this is what I believe about salvation.

Every son of Adam is born with a sin nature and spitually dead;

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.....death reigned from the time of Adam.......even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam. Romans 5:12 & 14


As for you, you are dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you live as you follow the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. You live you life by gratifying the cravings of your sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. You are by nature an object of wrath. Ephesians 2:1-3 present tense

God draws you towards Jesus;

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, John 6:44

The Holy Spirit will convict you in regards to your sin of rejecting Jesus, of your need to be righteous before God and that you will face judgment if you are still loyal to the prince of this world;

The Counselor will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:

• in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;
• in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
• and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. John 16:8-11

You must be born a second time from being a son of Adam to a son of God. This is done by the power of God through;

The Word of God;



For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. I Peter 1:23

The Spirit of God;
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." John 3:3-7 (selected)



​

This "new birth" is through faith in the "gospel of Jesus" who fulfilled the Old Testament prophecy concerning Himself;



"I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached-- how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen--by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
Acts 10:34-43




Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. I Corithians 15:1-5

That Jesus ascended into heaven physically and will return in like manner;

[Jesus] was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." Acts 1:9-11

This "faith" to believe in Jesus is not of yourself a gift of God if you will receive it by His grace;

For it is by grace you [can be] saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. Ephesians 2:8 (present tense)

And to repent of your sins;

...but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. Acts 17:30

...both Jews and Greeks....must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus. Acts 20:21

I preached that they should repent and turn to God....Acts 26:20

This is done through confession from you heart and with your lips;

'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' Luke 18:13

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9

Confessing their sins, they were baptized......Matthew 3:6

"The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

• That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
• .....and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
• .....you will be saved.

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:8-13

The promise of God's word is that YOU WILL BE SAVED.

After you are "born again" God will immerse you into the Holy Spirit...

'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God." John 1:33 & 34


For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
I Corinthians 12:13

Your first step of obedience as a believer in Christ Jesus is to be immersed by an ordained minister of the gospel in a local Church that preaches and teaches the word of God;

Those who accepted his message were immersed, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. Acts 2:41

Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. Acts 8:12

they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 19:5

Your second step as a believer in Christ Jesus is to become a member of this Church to be discipled in the faith and to partake of the Lords Supper;

Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Acts 2:41 & 42


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, idenfying them with the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Matthew 28:18-20

......you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. I Timothy 3:15

......where these (sins and lawless acts) have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin. Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching. Hebrews 10:18-25

This Grey Sparrow is what I believe is the gospel of Jesus where by I am saved.

 

[SumTinWong]

Uncle can you be unborn? Can you give the gift of life back to your natural parents?

No. No.

 

[integra evan]

Ummmm...excuse me???

Why (and this is not directed to you personal...but in general)...is OSAS equated with lukewarmness, spiritual laziness, indifference, non-involment...ect.?

I have the same Bible as you do. And my Bible says;

For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Epheisans 2:10

I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. Titus 3:8

I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Revelation 3:8

I have found lazy Christian in the "Falling from Grace" position....but I do not make the erronious assumption that this is due to this doctrine....that this the is the reason they are lazy. They are lazy because they under value the grace of God that saved them and do not count the blood of Jesus that cleansed them as very precious. Rather these should motivate a saint in Christ to witness to lost souls, to help the needy, and to be active in their local Church....regardless of doctrinal position.




This is unfair to tie the lukewarmness of Laodicia to OSAS. This is NOT why they were lukewarm. I am offened when you say "do not just say that one acceptance prayer then go about in your sinful life with God as one of your lesser priorities" You have just judged alot of sincere Christians who hold OSAS as great sinners, carnal Christians, who could careless about God. You better recheck your assumptions....because they are way, way off base!
I work real hard on this mission field in Salt Lake City. My motivation for my work is the blessing to know I am secure in Christ Jesus. I want to lead others to this same hope and confidence I have in Christ Jesus that God's wrath has passed and that heaven awaits us as our eternal home.

When I went to the Nazarene Church I spent more time at the mourners beach than I did sharing the gospel. I was self absorbed with constant introspection to try to root out every sinful desire that would keep me from being in God's favor for that week. I had no rest, I had no peace, I had no assurence that God had accepted me on the basis of Christs finished work on the cross. I was driven to make up with my own self effort to please God with my works. But all of my hopes would be dashed the next Sunday with sermons emphasizing that if some sin remained unconfessed, some work for God was not done, if I entertained some lustful thought, if I broke some Law from God's word...that God was not pleased and I could reject Jesus as my Lord....and God would be just to send me to hell for departing from His grace.




Then would come the hymn "I surrender all" and the call to come forward to get right with God...to confess my sins and ask Jesus into my heart so I could be saved. The Holy Spirit, I was told, would not take up residence into my life until I was fully committed to God. That the baptism of the Holy Spirit was a second work of grace that I was not ready to receive.



But when I read from the Bible;

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one." John 10:28 & 29

I knew I was safe in Christ Jesus. That holiness, righteousness and purity was the work of the Holy Spirit I had received when I was born again on March 22, 1971. That sanctification was not entire and complete at my new birth....but was a process as I would mature into the image of Christ. God would use His word....not a bludgeon to beat me into submission...but as an aid to sanctify me;

They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctifythem by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. John 17:16-19

And Jesus and the Holy Spirit were working on my behalf to sanctify me;

you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I Corinthians 6:11

But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13

OSAS makes me a better son of God, it motivated me to serve the Lord out of joy and delight. I am not burdened and weighed down with guilty that some how I have have left some sin unconfessed, or had some inpure thought, or failed to do some good deed that would undo the work of God redeeming my soul with the precious blood of Christ upon the cross when He cried "IT IS FINISHED!"

This is why I can sing;

Blessèd assurance, Jesus is mine!
O what a foretaste of glory divine!
Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.

Refrain

This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior, all the day long;
This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior, all the day long.

Perfect submission, perfect delight,
Visions of rapture now burst on my sight;
Angels descending bring from above
Echoes of mercy, whispers of love.

Refrain

Perfect submission, all is at rest
I in my Savior am happy and blest,
Watching and waiting, looking above,
Filled with His goodness, lost in His love

You definitely misinterperted my previous post.

 

[stjeremiah]

You definitely misinterperted my previous post.

How so?

 

[integra evan]

How so?

Don't worry about it. It's hard to understand what someone means through just plain typing.