Are Baptists OSAS?

[graysparrow]

Free to belive what they want or want?

It's just that same sound like calvinists to me and some don't...

so what do baptists believe aboust salvation?

 

[Fat]

Free to belive what they want or want?

It's just that same sound like calvinists to me and some don't...

so what do baptists believe aboust salvation?

Southern Baptist are Calvinist.

 

[Matthan]

Are Baptists OSAS? Oh, yea!

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Typically. My church back home is not and it is southern baptist.

 

[Fat]

Typically. My church back home is not and it is southern baptist.

http://www.biblestudyguide.org/bible-answers/southern-baptists-calvinists.htm

Perseverance of the saints is the fifth point of Calvinism and is often referred to as once saved always saved. Patterson is correct in his analysis of Southern Baptists. All Southern Baptists are Calvinists to one degree or another. Some Southern Baptists are two- or three-point Calvinists and others are five-point Calvinists. To make these distinctions, some Baptist academics have divided Southern Baptists into various categories depending upon the degree to which they practice Calvinism. Most Southern Baptists practice a combination of Arminianism (named for 16th-century theologian Jacob Armenius) and Calvinism (named for 16th-century theologian John Calvin). They fall into the category labeled "Popular Calvinist" by Bill Leonard, Dean of the Divinity School at Wake Forest University, in 1977. Other categorical designations employed within the Southern Baptist Church include "Hyper-Calvinist" and "Evangelical Calvinist." Southern Baptists following all five-points of Calvinism proudly refer to themselves as "Calvinists" without any further designation.

From the southern baptist convention site http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#iv

God's Purpose of Grace

Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility.

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

Southern Baptist Church's are all independent but they have to sign on with the SBC's creed or they aren't really Southern Baptist are they? And there are other Baptist like the Freewill Baptist that disagree with the SBC.


If you pray to God to lead someone you love to accepting Christ are you not asking God to interfere with that persons free choice? Now that would be a bummer.

 

[MbiaJc]

If you pray to God to lead someone you love to accepting Christ are you not asking God to interfere with that persons free choice? Now that would be a bummer.

Not so! It is asking God to even the playing field, because the devil is telling them that there is no God or look at what I got to offer. All of which is a sin in God's eyes.

 

[Fat]

Not so! It is asking God to even the playing field, because the devil is telling them that there is no God or look at what I got to offer. All of which is a sin in God's eyes.

And that is not interfering by cutting the choice down to one, OK learn something every day.

Today Fat leaned that an even playing field is when one side can't play?

 

[Velcro]

Typically. My church back home is not and it is southern baptist.

It's probably because of all those twittering birds!

 

[aReformedPatriot]

http://www.biblestudyguide.org/bible-answers/southern-baptists-calvinists.htm




From the southern baptist convention site http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#iv



Southern Baptist Church's are all independent but they have to sign on with the SBC's creed or they aren't really Southern Baptist are they? And there are other Baptist like the Freewill Baptist that disagree with the SBC.


If you pray to God to lead someone you love to accepting Christ are you not asking God to interfere with that persons free choice? Now that would be a bummer.

Perhaps I should have clarified that my pastor is not calvinist, nor are a portion of the congregation. Nor is a nice portion of the leaders of the Northeast Ohio Baptist Association calvinist--much to my surprise. There is a slight shift occuring in the SBC concerning calvinism.

The church consitution affirms these from a previous pastorates dating back to the 70's. I've never heard my pastor preach bad or good about calvinism one way or the other.

As for the free choice comment, which is partly incorrect, 'arminians' would hold that God does indeed draw someone which is exclusivly stated in scripture (in John i think) and that Christ died for all, but one must respond to that which is by and large the seperation from calvinism which teaches that it is irresistable.

In anycase, I choose not to debate on any aspects of calvinism or arminianism with you or any of my fellow baptists. Im sure you'll disagree and be quite staunch about it like a good calvinist.

The church i currently goto is fully calvinist (at least I believe so as Im new). It doesnt bother me to much one way or the other.

Have a Good Easter my Brother, Christ is Risen!

 

[aReformedPatriot]

It's probably because of all those twittering birds!

Those blasted birds! Im sure that we'd all be calvinist if it wasnt for those birds. They are chirping right now as a matter of fact

 

[rural_preacher]

One point Calvinist, two point Calvinist, etc.??

It seems to me that the only true Calvinist would be one who agrees with all of Calvinism...hook, line and sinker.

Why do you Calvinists insist on attaching your label to everyone who happens to agree with some of what you believe? Just because someone believes like you in some matters does not mean they are okay with being labeled like you. There are many churches that function the same as Baptist churches but are not Baptist. In fact, they take offence if you suggest that they are really a Baptist church just because they believe and practice like Baptists (in reality, they are simply a NT local church). Just because someone agrees with some of the positions of a political party does not make that person a member of that political party. The same is true with Calvinism. Some of us simply believe what the Word of God teaches, but that does not make us Calvinists! I find the label "Calvinist" to be offensive because John Calvin was an offensive person.

John Calvin did not die for my sins; Jesus Christ did! (I Corinthians 1:12-17)

If you want to label yourself a Calvinist, that is your business. But stop shoving your label on everyone who may agree with you on some points.

This thread should simply be about OSAS...not Calvinism!

Yes, I believe in OSAS because the Bible teaches it!




--

 

[graysparrow]

I'm now more confused than before

Let me re-ask the question...

Are there baptist who believe in OSAS and baptists who don't? Are those divided by denominations or is something that is left to each believer?

 

[Fat]

And happy Easter to you brother TLE,

I don't feel like debating Calvinism either, it is more important that you have received Christ than how you got there.

However having spent 30 years as a cop I don't let someone take a swing at me and walk a way, it's not in my nature.

As for the free choice comment, which is partly incorrect, 'arminians' would hold that God does indeed draw someone which is exclusivly stated in scripture (in John i think) and that Christ died for all, but one must respond to that which is by and large the seperation from calvinism which teaches that it is irresistable.

What man would choose death with the devil over life with the God, what man would choose evil over Gods will? Ask Adam who chose to die with Eve, ask Abraham who could not believe God could give his wife a son, ask David the adulterer, or Moses who disobeyed God.

Point Man is evil and he can not use his will to fight the devil he will loose. Christ died for all men but only some have the power to make that choice for accept Christ. Do you really believe that I am so righteous and so powerful that I made that choice on my own without the help of God? And do you really believe that if God helps man make that choice God will fail? Is this not the way God shows his power over evil? God has power over man and only He has the power make man turn from evil to righteousness.

Yes He has risen for all of us but I was to weak to fight the devil on my own, I thank Christ for doing it for me and I praise Gods power over evil for I am man and I was evil.

 

[Fat]

One point Calvinist, two point Calvinist, etc.??

It seems to me that the only true Calvinist would be one who agrees with all of Calvinism...hook, line and sinker.

Why do you Calvinists insist on attaching your label to everyone who happens to agree with some of what you believe? Just because someone believes like you in some matters does not mean they are okay with being labeled like you. There are many churches that function the same as Baptist churches but are not Baptist. In fact, they take offence if you suggest that they are really a Baptist church just because they believe and practice like Baptists (in reality, they are simply a NT local church). Just because someone agrees with some of the positions of a political party does not make that person a member of that political party. The same is true with Calvinism. Some of us simply believe what the Word of God teaches, but that does not make us Calvinists! I find the label "Calvinist" to be offensive because John Calvin was an offensive person.

John Calvin did not die for my sins; Jesus Christ did! (I Corinthians 1:12-17)

If you want to label yourself a Calvinist, that is your business. But stop shoving your label on everyone who may agree with you on some points.

This thread should simply be about OSAS...not Calvinism!

Yes, I believe in OSAS because the Bible teaches it!




--

Romans 9
Because the Bible teaches it!

 

[MbiaJc]

And that is not interfering by cutting the choice down to one, OK learn something every day.

Today Fat leaned that an even playing field is when one side can't play?

As long as you are learning?

 

[MbiaJc]

I'm now more confused than before

Let me re-ask the question...

Are there baptist who believe in OSAS and baptists who don't? Are those divided by denominations or is something that is left to each believer?

I thought all Baptist are OSAS.

 

[mesue]

I'm now more confused than before

Let me re-ask the question...

Are there baptist who believe in OSAS and baptists who don't? Are those divided by denominations or is something that is left to each believer?

Hmm ...
Good question. I belong to an Independent, Fundamental, Bible Believing, Baptist Church. We believe that once saved, always saved. I never thought of it as a "Baptist" thing, just a Biblical thing.

 

[Fat]

As long as you are learning?

Teach me more MbiaJc,


And if no one prays for your salvation how is the even playing field set up? Or is the even playing field only for those man chooses to pray for? So some get the even playing field and some don't and the choice is up to who again? So why again do you pray for your love ones salvation?

How can OSAS coexist with free will? If one has free will can he not choose to rebuke Gods Grace and return to the flesh? Or is free will only a temporary thing?

If man is to weak to fight the devils temptation without the help of God is he strong enough to fight Gods offer of grace? Is the devil stronger than God? Adam had true free will, no interference from God. Just one sin for Adam to say no to. How about you MbiaJc could you say no to the devil without Gods help?
Would any man in his right mind turn down eternal life for eternal damnation if he was free to choose?

So where does faith come from, is it taught? Is faith something man is born with? Why do some have faith and some don't?

Romans 9:9 *For this is the statement of the promise: At this time I will come, and Sarah will have a son. 10*And not only that, but also when Rebekah became pregnant by Isaac our forefather 11*(for though they had not been born yet or done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to election might stand, 12*not from works but from the One who calls) she was told: The older will serve the younger. 13*As it is written: Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.

14* What should we say then? Is there injustice with God? Absolutely not! 15*For He tells Moses: I will show mercy to whom I show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16*So then it does not depend on human will or effort, but on God who shows mercy. 17*For the Scripture tells Pharaoh: For this reason I raised you up: so that I may display My power in you, and that My name may be proclaimed in all the earth. 18*So then, He shows mercy to whom He wills, and He hardens whom He wills. 19*You will say to me, therefore, "Why then does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?" 20*But who are you--anyone who talks back to God? Will what is formed say to the one who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" 21*Or has the potter no right over His clay, to make from the same lump one piece of pottery for honor and another for dishonor? 22*And what if God, desiring to display His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience objects of wrath ready for destruction? 23*And what if He did this to make known the riches of His glory on objects of mercy that He prepared beforehand for glory--

 

[mesue]

I post this a lot, please bear with me for those who have read it. I don't know a better way to put this. Or, I'm lazy I originally wrote it to a friend that believed there was a "sin unto death" and didn't understand that this meant the physical consequences of sin for the born again.

Dear Andrea,
Some things for you to consider and to know why I know that I will never lose my salvation.

Jesus promised that I cannot lose my salvation:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37)

(note Jesus didn’t say “Except for that sin unto death”)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)

(note Jesus didn’t say “Except for that sin unto death”)

Further, that I cannot do anything to lose my salvation because:

Salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works. It is a gift from God. No man can lose his salvation on his own, because no man earned his salvation.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

If I had to do anything to earn or keep my salvation, I would easily lose it.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)

Yet 2 Timothy assures us it is Jesus Christ who keeps us, not we ourselves.

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

(2 Timothy 1:12)

Galatians 2:21 states clearly that if we could become righteous by anything we do, then Jesus Christ’s death was in vein.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

(Galatians 2:21)

God won’t cast me out, no man can cause me to lose my salvation, I cannot lose it myself and there is nothing else to make me lose my salvation

For I am persuaded, that neither

death, - you cannot lose it when you die

nor life, - you cannot lose it while you’re alive

nor angels, - cannot take it away from you

nor principalities, - the government can’t take it from you.

nor powers, - the devil cannot cause you to lose it.

nor things present, - nothing happening right now

nor things to come, - nothing happening in the future.

Nor height, - nothing above you.

nor depth, - nothing below you.

nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

Does this mean I can go on and knowingly sin? Absolutely not!

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (Romans 6:15)

But how I serve the Lord while here on earth will be judged.

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1Corinthians 3:13-15)

 

[Gold Dragon]

Free to belive what they want or want?

It's just that same sound like calvinists to me and some don't...

so what do baptists believe aboust salvation?

Some baptists are calvinists and some baptists aren't.

Additionally, some baptists believe in OSAS and some baptists don't. Of those that believe in OSAS, some are Calvinist and some aren't.

I hope that helps.