Are Anabaptists Protestant?

Conservative Mennonite · Apr 13, 2005

Are Anabaptists Protestant? The answer is definitely yes. Or at least, the counterparts of today's Anabaptists were. But, we do have to remember not all the Anabaptist groups of the Reformation are the same. The Catholics and other Reformers called anybody who practiced Adult Baptism 'Anabaptists.' The term Anabaptists means 're-baptizers.' There were Anabaptists who sought political change, and they were wiped out. The forerunners of today's Mennonites, Amish, and Hutterites were not seeking political change, they were known as the Brethren. That is part of the reason that they were so hated by both Protestants and Catholics. The Anabaptists were heavily persecuted by both. During the Reformation period, all the European countries had mixed religion and politics. Some countries were 'Catholic' and persecuted all those who weren't. Some were Protestant, and likewise persecuted others. But Anabaptists/Brethren were persecuted by all. Even the American government persecuted the Brethren even up into the twentieth century during WWI. More information on Anabaptist/Brethren History can be found at my homepage if you're interested.

McDLT · Apr 13, 2005

Conservative Mennonite said:
Are Anabaptists Protestant? The answer is definitely yes. Or at least, the counterparts of today's Anabaptists were. But, we do have to remember not all the Anabaptist groups of the Reformation are the same. The Catholics and other Reformers called anybody who practiced Adult Baptism 'Anabaptists.' The term Anabaptists means 're-baptizers.' There were Anabaptists who sought political change, and they were wiped out. The forerunners of today's Mennonites, Amish, and Hutterites were not seeking political change, they were known as the Brethren. That is part of the reason that they were so hated by both Protestants and Catholics. The Anabaptists were heavily persecuted by both. During the Reformation period, all the European countries had mixed religion and politics. Some countries were 'Catholic' and persecuted all those who weren't. Some were Protestant, and likewise persecuted others. But Anabaptists/Brethren were persecuted by all. Even the American government persecuted the Brethren even up into the twentieth century during WWI. More information on Anabaptist/Brethren History can be found at my homepage if you're interested.

I've gotten a bit of a mixed message - you say yes they are protestant, but then separate them when discussing persecution. I would have to deduce then that they are not Protestant.

There were Anabaptists around before the Reformation and my thinking is that the Reformation helped to define Anabaptists sects more clearly. The Reformation gave them a voice that neither the Catholics nor the Protestants wanted, thus the persecution.

Just some of how I'm viewing your posts, mixed with a bit of religious history schooling.

MrJim · Apr 14, 2005

Conservative Mennonite said:
Are Anabaptists Protestant? The answer is definitely yes. QUOTE]

Have to disagree with you here brother. Protestants in the 16th century were primarily focused on justification. Holiness and repentance were not the themes of the protestant reformation. Consider "Sola Fide" "Sola Scriptura" "Sola Deo Gloria" "Sola Gratia": While excellent and commendable, one doesn't particularly find penitence and discipleship in these teachings. It can be found if you dig into it far enough, but it is not a trumpeted theme of the PR.

It was said that back then Jesus was viewed as the dying saviour on the cross, or the conquering king coming in the clouds of heaven, but very few could see Jesus as someone to follow in daily life. "Pick up your cross daily and follow me" was something the anabaptists viewed as a true calling. It was said the anabaptists believed in three baptisms: Water, Spirit, and Blood. It was said that if you recieved the first two the third was surely to follow. One story told in the Martyr's Mirror tells of a young man that didn't get a water baptism before his execution-he recieved the baptism of blood.

Truth of the matter is that evangelicals have a lot more in common with anabaptists than protestants. This can be seen simply by "transporting" your self and church affiliation/denomination/etc back to that time and see how you would be accepted by the protestant church. The simple doctrine of baptism would have you (at least) exiled and possibly martyred. Evangelicals want to associate themselves and claim for their own Luther and Calvin and Zwingli but by and large they would not be accepted. I can see Lutherans, Presbyterians, Reformed, (and some Methodists may slip in there since they are paedobaptists but even that would be iffy) being accepted--at least the conservative elements of these denominations.

While the leaders of the "Big 3" may not have gotten along real well-they were united against their common enemies: Roman Catholics and anabaptists.

So there's my 2 cents...

daveleau · Apr 14, 2005

Baptists trace their roots to Puritans and Anabaptists (not sure who was first) who trace their lineage back to the Apostles, even before the formation of the church in Rome set up by Constantine. Luther began the Reformation, which caused splits in the Roman church. These splintered groups are called Protestants because they protested against the Roman church.

Even though this is our history, this is splitting hairs. I wish there was only one denomination- one set under Christ. Despite the group delineations, there are plenty of Christians (and plenty of non-Christians- but only God knows who they are) in each denomination.

McDLT · Apr 15, 2005

I do agree that there is no one correct denomination and that all the matters is Jesus. I just thought that this the place where we can "split hairs" and figure out what the denomination believes? Thus getting to know one another and appreciate each others differences.

From what I can remember of my history Anabaptists trace their roots back to the first church.

MrJim · Apr 15, 2005

daveleau said:
I wish there was only one denomination- one set under Christ. Despite the group delineations, there are plenty of Christians (and plenty of non-Christians- but only God knows who they are) in each denomination.

I'll that. It's definitely a hindrance to evangelizing. My unsaved little brother once asked why there can't be a building with just the word "church" on it. Guess we'll have it in heaven.

Conservative Mennonite · Apr 15, 2005

McDLT said:
I've gotten a bit of a mixed message - you say yes they are protestant, but then separate them when discussing persecution. I would have to deduce then that they are not Protestant.

There were Anabaptists around before the Reformation and my thinking is that the Reformation helped to define Anabaptists sects more clearly. The Reformation gave them a voice that neither the Catholics nor the Protestants wanted, thus the persecution.

Just some of how I'm viewing your posts, mixed with a bit of religious history schooling.

Yes, I do distinguish them when discussing persecution, but only because they were being persecuted by the Catholics and other Reformers. There were two large groups of Protestants, the Anabaptists were a fairly small group. The two large groups were known as the Lutherans, and the Reformers(later to be known as the Calvinists). That's the only reason I distinguished between them.

Conservative Mennonite · Apr 15, 2005

ons

menno said:
Conservative Mennonite said:

Are Anabaptists Protestant? The answer is definitely yes. QUOTE]

Have to disagree with you here brother. Protestants in the 16th century were primarily focused on justification. Holiness and repentance were not the themes of the protestant reformation. Consider "Sola Fide" "Sola Scriptura" "Sola Deo Gloria" "Sola Gratia": While excellent and commendable, one doesn't particularly find penitence and discipleship in these teachings. It can be found if you dig into it far enough, but it is not a trumpeted theme of the PR.

While the leaders of the "Big 3" may not have gotten along real well-they were united against their common enemies: Roman Catholics and anabaptists.

So there's my 2 cents...

Click to expand...

In Zurich, Switzerland in 1525, the early Anabaptist/Brethren movement began. Three men by the names of Conrad Grebel, Felix Manz, and George Blaurock along with a few others started their own movement. The largest point of contention between these men and other reformers was their conviction against infant baptism. These men boldly re-baptized adult believers who had been baptized as infants. For this reason, they were called Anabaptists, or re-baptizers, by their enemies. This group termed themselves 'Brethren' however, a name which is retained by the Anabaptist churches in Switzerland to this day.

Today's Anabaptists arose out of this specific movement, sometimes titled as the Third Wing of the Reformation, which arose because of the discontent of some with the closeness of the earliest Reformers(Luther and Zwingli) to the Catholic Church.

I don't know of many Anabaptists who claim not to have been born out of the Reformation, and those who do normally don't know their own history very well. However, there were other Anabaptist groups before the Anabaptist/Brethren that may have existed before the early Reformers.

MrJim · Apr 15, 2005

Conservative Mennonite said:
ons

menno said:

I don't know of many Anabaptists who claim not to have been born out of the Reformation, and those who do normally don't know their own history very well.

Click to expand...

I readily understand they were born out of the reformation, but as an entirely different critter than the Luther/Calvin/Zwingli groups. Something utterly different from the protestants-maybe UBERPROTESTANT, since they were protesting the protesters?

Conservative Mennonite · Apr 15, 2005

menno said:
Conservative Mennonite said:

ons

I readily understand they were born out of the reformation, but as an entirely different critter than the Luther/Calvin/Zwingli groups. Something utterly different from the protestants-maybe UBERPROTESTANT, since they were protesting the protesters?

Click to expand...

Yeah, they were a different critter alright. Which is why the other Protestants didn't like them(that and the infant baptism thing). After all, they had started the Protest, how dare the Anabaptists protest against them?

MrJim · Apr 15, 2005

Conservative Mennonite said:
menno said:

Yeah, they were a different critter alright. Which is why the other Protestants didn't like them(that and the infant baptism thing). After all, they had started the Protest, how dare the Anabaptists protest against them?

Click to expand...

Exactly-they were so different that they posed a threat. A calf can be born in a pony stall, but it doesn't make it a horse...anabaptists were born amidst the turmoil of the reformation, but it doesn't make them protestants.

McDLT · Apr 16, 2005

Conservative Mennonite said:
Yeah, they were a different critter alright. Which is why the other Protestants didn't like them (that and the infant baptism thing). After all, they had started the Protest, how dare the Anabaptists protest against them?

So then I guess the Anabaptists aren't Protestants. They just happened at the same time. Protestants against Catholics; Protestants and Catholics against Anabaptists.

Conservative Mennonite · Apr 17, 2005

Mmmm...you'd almost have to say that they were Protestants. They were definitely protesting the Catholic church, but in a different way than the other Protestantes.

McDLT · Apr 17, 2005

Conservative Mennonite said:
Mmmm...you'd almost have to say that they were Protestants. They were definitely protesting the Catholic church, but in a different way than the other Protestantes.

Well then I wouldn't say they were the same as Protestants. Being different does not make them the same -- it makes them different.

constance · Apr 28, 2005

Anabaptists are "Radical Reformers" - hard core reformers!

Anabaptists pushed Sola Scriptura, Separation of Church & State, Freedom of Conscience, Believer's Baptism, and living a holy life (rejection of Sola Fide).

Two words: Dirk Willems. The man who was not afraid to turn back.

Constance

JimfromOhio · Apr 28, 2005

Anabaptists often reflect just the general Protestant view of salvation - much like Baptists, Assembly of God, etc. Faith and repentance are taught - and this is Scriptural and good. Anabaptists agree with most Protestants (indeed, most Christians) on most theological basics, but differ on several major beliefs. One major belief is that the Anabaptists placed a high spiritual value on baptism and so believed that this was the thought of God on the matter that they were willing to risk life and limb to follow through on what they saw as Biblical conversion. With such a high value placed on baptism, they were willing to pay the high price for the promise of God - and consequently, so many went to their deaths. Yes, the Anabaptists clashed with the Catholics, Lutherans, and Reformed on other issues, but by and large, baptism seemed to be the key teaching that brought about so much controversy.

Are Anabaptists Protestant?

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