Are all non-Catholics damned?

[rebel_guy]

Are all non-Catholics going to hell? "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus" is a Latin phrase used by the Catholic Church and means "outside the church there is no salvation." The only obvious interpretation that can be applied to this statement is that all non-Catholics are damned. Is that what practising Catholics believe?

I've just read a Dan Brown style thriller ("The Armageddon Conspiracy" by Mike Hockney) which goes into great detail about Gnostic religious beliefs. The Gnostics believed that the creator of the earth (the God worshipped by the Christians, Jews and Muslims) was evil and could more or less be equated with Satan. The novel is about an ancient Gnostic conspiracy to kill God (Satan in their view) using the Ark of the Covenant, the Spear of Destiny and the Holy Grail. It's an ingenious novel, but overly complicated. Nevertheless, it made great play of saying that Christians and Muslims are very keen to sentence infidels to hell. Would 'nice' people want others to suffer forever in hell? The Gnostics believed that those people who held such beliefs were clearly inspired by Satan rather than the true God. When one considers the actions of the 9/11 suicide hijackers, doesn't it appear that they worshipped Satan rather than the true God? So aren't the Gnostics right? I mean which God would say, 'Ah, marvellous, you've slaughtered 3,000 human beings, welcome to Paradise.' Isn't that what Satan rather than a benign God would say? In fact would a good, forgiving, loving God send anyone to hell in any circumstances?

 

[hsilgne]

Christians who identify themselves as "anything but" Catholic are not outside the Church. They are joined to the Church through the Sacrament of Baptism.

 

[stephenc]

That's a lot of questions man. If this stuff is preying on your mind, I suggest, in all friendliness, that you put down the super-exciting thrillers and start leafing through the basic, "boring" stuff.

You might find it's not so boring, and that it gives you a more complete picture of what Christianity is.

 

[hsilgne]

In fact would a good, forgiving, loving God send anyone to hell in any circumstances?

No one is worthy of heaven. Jesus "get's us in". We cannot "get in" on our own merit. That said, only those who refuse His mercy are damned.

PS... The book you described is fiction - remember that.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I agree although I am not going to specifically state exactly what it is that I am agreeing with.

 

[QuantaCura]

Unity with the Body of Christ is necessary for salvation, since a member cut off from the Body withers and dies. Baptism (or at least the implicit desire for it) unites us to the Body and persevering in the unity faith is how we remain united (thus, willful heresy, schism or apostacy separates one from the Body).

So therefore it is possible for someone who is not explicitly Catholic to be saved--if they are so in "good faith", that is, they desire to believe all God has revealed and do all He has commanded, but are innocently mistaken about those things--then they can be united to the Catholic Church, the Body of Christ, and may be saved.

Those who earnestly seek the truth and the will of God and surrender to Divine Wisdom (who is Christ the Logos), that is, those with faith, will find what they seek either in this life or the next. Our mission as Catholics is to spread the truth about God's wisdom and will, persuade all men to earnestly seek it and surrender to it by uniting themselves to Christ and His Mystical Body so that they may partake of His life.



(note: we also do not say all Catholics are necessarily saved, as one must also persevere in charity, that is, in the state of grace--which is simply living the faith one professes).

 

[D'Ann]

Amen Quanta Cura... As Catholic, we do not judge anyone if they are going to heaven or not because at the very second of their death, we don't know what was in a person's heart. We leave that up to God.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Are all non-Catholics going to hell? "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus" is a Latin phrase used by the Catholic Church and means "outside the church there is no salvation." The only obvious interpretation that can be applied to this statement is that all non-Catholics are damned. Is that what practising Catholics believe?

I've just read a Dan Brown style thriller ("The Armageddon Conspiracy" by Mike Hockney) which goes into great detail about Gnostic religious beliefs. The Gnostics believed that the creator of the earth (the God worshipped by the Christians, Jews and Muslims) was evil and could more or less be equated with Satan. The novel is about an ancient Gnostic conspiracy to kill God (Satan in their view) using the Ark of the Covenant, the Spear of Destiny and the Holy Grail. It's an ingenious novel, but overly complicated. Nevertheless, it made great play of saying that Christians and Muslims are very keen to sentence infidels to hell. Would 'nice' people want others to suffer forever in hell? The Gnostics believed that those people who held such beliefs were clearly inspired by Satan rather than the true God. When one considers the actions of the 9/11 suicide hijackers, doesn't it appear that they worshipped Satan rather than the true God? So aren't the Gnostics right? I mean which God would say, 'Ah, marvellous, you've slaughtered 3,000 human beings, welcome to Paradise.' Isn't that what Satan rather than a benign God would say? In fact would a good, forgiving, loving God send anyone to hell in any circumstances?

Catholics dont judge.
[And of course the Church was also accurate since it was the One and Only for 1500 years and it was created by Christ]
What better founder? You agree?

ANyway, we dont say this now because of 'INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE....' for those who do not know about the Church.

The CC has the original sacraments established by Christ thru His Apostles for mankind.

As for the answer... well, we leave that up to God.
But what if...........?

[Personally, i believe God is mercilful]
And He allows those who dont have the sacraments to purge themselves...before entering His Hallowed ground. [Heaven]

 

[Angeldove97]

I leave the judgement up to God. I think non-Catholics will go to heaven, but that's God's choice not mine.

 

[Scorcher505]

Christians who identify themselves as "anything but" Catholic are not outside the Church. They are joined to the Church through the Sacrament of Baptism.

Amen

Sorry to butt in, I know I am not supposed to get into stuff like this in here so please forgive me.

I refuse to believe that someone who believes that Jesus Christ is the only son of God, came to the Earth as a man and died for our sins, and rose from the grave three days later, and lived as a Christian could not be considered saved.

 

[Scorcher505]

Catholics dont judge.
[And of course the Church was also accurate since it was the One and Only for 1500 years and it was created by Christ]
What better founder? You agree? [Heaven]

I think the Orthodox would debate that. The Catholic church has more tracings to the teachings of Paul, and the Orthodox followed closer to the teachings of Peter, who were actually a lil different. In the end none of that matters. What matters is Christ in your life, imho.

Again, please do not be mad at me for being a voice for the other side, I really do not want to offend anyone. If you do not believe me ask Angeldove

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Amen

Sorry to butt in, I know I am not supposed to get into stuff like this in here so please forgive me.

I refuse to believe that someone who believes that Jesus Christ is the only son of God, came to the Earth as a man and died for our sins, and rose from the grave three days later, and lived as a Christian could not be considered saved.

If one believes this, it would entail being obedient to all of Christ's Divine Revelation and word also;Thus one must also enter therein into Christ's sole and One Holy Catholic Church; for he said: "IF they listen to me, they will listen to you" meaning that if one were to listen to Christ they were also have to listen to his apostles and their Sucessors---the Catholic Bishops and the Head of Bishops's Christ's Chief Steward(his Chief Bishop that is) of his Church: The Holy Pontiff. For one to refuse to enter therein of Christ's One mystical Body: His Holy Catholic Church or remain within her and whomever does not have faith with works done in the Charity of God-through the grace of the Holy Ghost: That man or woman will have condemned themselves by turning away from his Holy Catholic Church and thus his Holy Kingdom of Heaven; that person will be damned with the multitude of other denizens of hell amongst others included: Satan, the Fallen Angels, daemons, and various other sinners: All of whom refuse obedience unto Christ our Blessed Lord God in adherence and fidelity in our Blessed Lord's eternal Charity unto all of Christ's Divine Revelation insofar as they are knowledge and culpable of such knowledge in order to carry out the Divine Commands of our Blessed Lord God in Heaven; thus this would bear in mind that they are not invincibly ignorant.




God would judge those invincibly ignorant mercifully; meaning that Those who have never had the oppurtunity or have come to the knowledge of Christ or his Holy Gospel within their respective lives, but however believed in the One Lord God alone and at least live a moral life barring mortal sin and any immoralities: in other words a morally ethically and righteous life insofar as good as they were able to without the light of the Gospel: thus God will judge these invincibly ignorant according to his divine law and his mercy; having mercy on those of whom lived out the gospel-life, though ignorant of it explicitly, but would at the given Chance just the Holy Catholic Church and subsequently the Eternal Heavenly Father's Kingdom only if given the Chance to obtain such aforesaid knowledge and thus enjoin themselves unto the Church.

I hope that helps.

In Christ's beloved Charity,
Matthew

 

[WordofGod]

for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23

Are all non-Catholics going to hell? "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus" is a Latin phrase used by the Catholic Church and means "outside the church there is no salvation." The only obvious interpretation that can be applied to this statement is that all non-Catholics are damned. Is that what practising Catholics believe?

I've just read a Dan Brown style thriller ("The Armageddon Conspiracy" by Mike Hockney) which goes into great detail about Gnostic religious beliefs. The Gnostics believed that the creator of the earth (the God worshipped by the Christians, Jews and Muslims) was evil and could more or less be equated with Satan. The novel is about an ancient Gnostic conspiracy to kill God (Satan in their view) using the Ark of the Covenant, the Spear of Destiny and the Holy Grail. It's an ingenious novel, but overly complicated. Nevertheless, it made great play of saying that Christians and Muslims are very keen to sentence infidels to hell. Would 'nice' people want others to suffer forever in hell? The Gnostics believed that those people who held such beliefs were clearly inspired by Satan rather than the true God. When one considers the actions of the 9/11 suicide hijackers, doesn't it appear that they worshipped Satan rather than the true God? So aren't the Gnostics right? I mean which God would say, 'Ah, marvellous, you've slaughtered 3,000 human beings, welcome to Paradise.' Isn't that what Satan rather than a benign God would say? In fact would a good, forgiving, loving God send anyone to hell in any circumstances?

 

[Called2Grace]

Nope, must be Catholic, must drive on the left hand side of the road, and must always spin around clockwise three times before opening the fridge.

 

[WordofGod]

You must belong to the universal church of Christ.

 

[Globalnomad]

"Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" is a genuine and well-known phrase in Catholicism - quite ancient - but it is not to be interpreted "on the surface". Its deeper meaning is that every soul has to be joined to the Universal Church in some way to be saved. But to be joined to the Universal Church does not necessarily mean to be a baptised Catholic in good standing. There can be many other ways, which God only knows. We call them "good faith", "invincible ignorance", Baptism of desire" etc etc., but the gist is, we don't know and we don't judge - we leave it to God's mercy.

Two more things:

1. quit reading trash - unless you can read it just for fun, without letting any of the ideas sink into you and cause doubts.

2. don't mix two very different things. The 9/11 suicide bombers are a different question altogether. To believe that all non-[pick a religion]s will go to hell is VERY different from actually SENDING them to hell. Both ideas are terrible, of course - but the first is just a terrible idea, while the second is a crime against humanity and religion. I agree with you about Satan there...

 

[Anglian]

In our prayers for every hour we ask God to forgive us our sins thus:

'Remit, forgive, pardon, O God, our offences, voluntary and involuntary, those we know and those we know not of, the open sins and the secret. O Lord, forgive us, for the sake of they Holy Name which is called upon is; according to Thy mercy, O Lord, and not according to our sins'

At the conclusion of every hour we pray:

'O Christ, our good Lord, plenteous in patience, mercy and compassion, Who lovest the righteous and showest mercy unto sinners, of whom I am the chief; Who desirest not the death of a sinner but that all may turn from their wickedness and live ..'

God, the only Just Judge, will decide our fate, and anyone who thinks otherwise - well they may be in for surprise.

In peace,

Anglian

 

[Debi1967]

Amen Quanta Cura... As Catholic, we do not judge anyone if they are going to heaven or not because at the very second of their death, we don't know what was in a person's heart. We leave that up to God.

Precisely

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is a certain amount of doublespeak going on here. On one hand, the Catholic church has always maintained that there is no salvation outside of the church. Out of the other side of the mouth we are told that there is salvation outside of the church, but that only the Catholic church holds the "fullness of salvation" which has been interpreted to mean a variety of things. To accomplish this feat "church" has been redefined in various manners, usually to include those non-Catholic churches which have Trinitarian baptism.

On one hand, it is entirely true that Catholics do not judge, nor should they. On the other hand, the Catholic church has not restrained itself from judging at all. Various Popes have issued bulls judging and condemning all sorts of people from Galileo to Luther to Henry VIII to mention but three. Thus, although reticence in judgment is observed by faithful Catholics it is not a trait practiced by the Popes or the Magisterium.

 

[Miss Shelby]

There is a certain amount of doublespeak going on here.

well now just how do you expect us to attain our goal of securing the damnation of all souls if we don't use a little bit of double speak here and there? I swear to God, this judging of Catholics just never ends.