Discussion Apostolic Power - what is it? What does it look like?

[Always in His Presence]

All I am saying is that scripture recorded

• Simon did not make an offer to Phillip to get that power but
• Simon made an offer to Peter and John to get that power

Of course the Bible did not say "why", that was not my point.

Since Scripture is silent on the why - we cannot accurately state or assign any meaning to it and your point is moot.

The Gifts and manifestations of the Spirit are active in the church today. That power that Simon wanted so badly is active and available today. Since it has been more than 2,000 years since the last of the original 12 have graduated to heaven - it is obvious.

 

[Guojing]

That power that Simon wanted so badly is active and available today. Since it has been more than 2,000 years since the last of the original 12 have graduated to heaven - it is obvious.

Out of curiosity, you have never wondered why no one is bothered to pay anything to anyone today, to transfer that power, unlike in Acts 8?

Isn't that a very obvious question to ask? Otherwise, the other conclusion to draw is that "this power" that we see today, no one really wants it as badly as Simon did.

Of course, ignorance can be bliss. =)

 

[Always in His Presence]

Out of curiosity, you have never wondered why no one is bothered to pay anything to anyone today, to transfer that power, unlike in Acts 8?

Isn't that a very obvious question to ask? Otherwise, the other conclusion to draw is that "this power" that we see today, no one really wants it as badly as Simon did.

Of course, ignorance can be bliss. =)

Or..... the answer Simon received was good enough for all -

You still have not answered my question - Why not?

"Those Gifts" are given as the Spirit wills - see verses already quoted - and are given by God to the church - Still is happening 2,000 years later because the church is here 2,000 years later.

Spirit-Filled, Pentecostal and/or Charismatic believers can be from ANY Christian Denomination. They are those who believe that all the various spiritual gifts (or charisms) listed in the New Testament (including but not limited to the manifestations gifts found in I Corinthians 12:8-10) are active in the Church today and desirable in the life of the individual believer, for the edification of the Body of Christ.It is not a requirement that the individual exercises/exhibits any specific spiritual gift(s).

The Gifts and manifestations of the Spirit are active in the church today. That power that Simon wanted so badly is active and available today. Since it has been more than 2,000 years since the last of the original 12 have graduated to heaven - it is obvious.

Last time -

Do you believe the gifts and manifestations of the Spirit are active in the church today?


Yes, or no?

 

[jiminpa]

I am merely saying that this is not an example of scripture silence.

That is why I offered you the more reasonable conclusion that ""there is some support in scripture, in the way Simon reacted to Peter and John vis a vis Phillip, but just not to a degree that will convince someone like yourself"?"

You do not need to conclude that scripture backs my interpretation, but just to conclude there is "some support".

Is that conclusion that unreasonable to you, that you have to reject it completely?

If scripture doesn't fill in a gap, it is silent on that detail.

 

[Guojing]

If scripture doesn't fill in a gap, it is silent on that detail.

So why do you believe in the Trinity?

 

[jiminpa]

So why do you believe in the Trinity?

The Bible clearly distinguishes between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I also believe that God is one. I don't claim to understand how that can be, but the Bible says it, so it's true.

 

[Guojing]

The Bible clearly distinguishes between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I also believe that God is one. I don't claim to understand how that can be, but the Bible says it, so it's true.

My point is, regarding the term "Trinity", scripture is also silent, there is a gap.

So going by your principle "If scripture doesn't fill in a gap, it is silent on that detail.", you should also be silent and not even hold that as a doctrine.

 

[Always in His Presence]

@Guojing why are you ignoring this question?

Do you believe the gifts and manifestations of the Spirit are active in the church today?

 

[jiminpa]

My point is, regarding the term "Trinity", scripture is also silent, there is a gap.

So going by your principle "If scripture doesn't fill in a gap, it is silent on that detail.", you should also be silent and not even hold that as a doctrine.

Okay, you win the argument on attrition. I'd like to say it's been interesting, or that I learned something, but I'm just done trying to reason with a dead horse.

 

[Guojing]

Okay, you win the argument on attrition. I'd like to say it's been interesting, or that I learned something, but I'm just done trying to reason with a dead horse.

I am just trying to establish that "there is some support in scripture, in the way Simon reacted to Peter and John vis a vis Phillip, but just not to a degree that will convince someone like yourself"?"

For you to completely reject that as an option, even though it provided an out for you to still disagree with me, don't you think the dead horse could be yourself, aka you are projecting? =)

 

[Always in His Presence]

Do you believe the gifts and manifestations of the Spirit are active in the church today?

@Guojing your silence tells me everything I need to know.

 

[lismore]

Definitions?

Hello, perhaps it might involve:

When an Apostle speaks or writes it is considered authoritative (2 Peter 3:16), the church devotes itself to the Apostle's teaching (Acts 2:42).

An apostle is a witness of the risen Lord (1 Corinthians 9:1)

An apostle can do many miracles (Acts 5:15-16, Acts 28:9)

Being visible leaders Apostles endure persecution for the Kingdom's sake (Acts 5:18)

God Bless

 

[Always in His Presence]

Hello, perhaps it might involve:

Perhaps - remember the OP -

When an Apostle speaks or writes it is considered authoritative (2 Peter 3:16), the church devotes itself to the Apostle's teaching (Acts 2:42).

In regards to the 12 - we agree 100%, however we are debating modern day Apostles

An apostle is a witness of the risen Lord (1 Corinthians 9:1)

One of the 12 - we agree 100%

But there are more than the 12 who never were witnesses of the risen Lord.

Example:

Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

I think we can agree that there are still evangelist, pastors and teachers. I think we can agree they are still active for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry.

We would also have to agree there are still Apostles - none of those offices have ended.

An apostle can do many miracles (Acts 5:15-16, Acts 28:9)

So can believers -

Being visible leaders Apostles endure persecution for the Kingdom's sake (Acts 5:18)

God Bless

That is not an Apostolic power -

God bless you also!

Thank you.

 

[lismore]

That is not an Apostolic power -

The power to endure persecution and suffering for the sake of the gospel. Not a popular one today but:

2 Corinthians 11:23-27
Acts 9:16

God Bless

 

[Always in His Presence]

The power to endure persecution and suffering for the sake of the gospel. Not a popular one today but:

2 Corinthians 11:23-27
Acts 9:16

God Bless

God Bless you also.

Foxes book of Martyrs chronically hundreds of years of Saint doing EXACTLY that.

It happens to this day.