Apostles?

[Albion]

There were the apostles of the Lamb and foundational apostles giving us the Word of God. There are apostles today preparing the Body of Christ as described in the Word of God. God never changed and His ways never change.

The works of apostles are still being done as well, although you typically will not see them unless you're in a church where they are received.

So what we've arrived at is that the word "Apostles" is normally reserved for the Twelve. That's the way the New Testament uses it. But still, the word itself means one who is sent out, and we do still need and have such church workers today. That's all there is to this discussion--how you choose to use the word.

 

[Yahu]

one of an authoritative New Testament group sent out to preach the gospel and made up especially of Christ's 12 original disciples and Paul

Unless this person was sent out personally,by Jesus Christ himself no there is no more Apostles.

Nonsense.

Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

There are 5 different types of callings into ministry. All 5 still exist. Your definition of what it means to be an apostle is the problem. My specific calling is not as an apostle but as a prophet.

I was called as a prophet back in 84. By 85 I was in a conflict with a high priestess of Ashtoreth while in the military. She was the prime candidate to become the next worldwide high priestess of her 'goddess' and a powerful witch. I tend to get drawn into to conflicts against paganism and witchcraft. I have seen the power of Yah destroy covens. I have stood in opposition to modern day prophets of Baal. I have seen Jezebel cast down. I have prophesied in the Groves and seen the consequences. People died in those conflicts but many more got saved as a result.

Those that think Apostles don't exist also think prophets don't exist and I KNOW that to be wrong. Apostles can be just as common as evangelists.

A missionary is basically an Apostolic calling. We just use a different term.

 

[Yahu]

I have always had a question about these types of discussions. If we believe that Christ is the same, that every good and perfect gift comes from the Father who does not change, and that the end of a thing is better than the beginning . . . then, why would God give ministry and/or Holy Spirit gifts to the early church and not to the entire church? Just a question.

Much of the modern church falls into the error of the Philidelphian church in Rev 3, they have 'little strength' and fail to enter the treasure chamber opened by the 'key of David'. Yeshua is offering those spiritual gifts but they fail to enter and claim those gifts. Part of the problem is the false teachings that the Spiritual gifts no longer exist. As a result they also teach the callings of Apostles and Prophets no longer exist as well.

Rev 2&3 is a list of problems within the churches and is a maturity scale as well as rewards of Glorification for those that overcome those errors. It is the Laodicean church that is operating in the Spiritual gifts but are doing so for their own personal prosperity. They are misusing the gifts.

 

[Yahu]

So what we've arrived at is that the word "Apostles" is normally reserved for the Twelve. That's the way the New Testament uses it. But still, the word itself means one who is sent out, and we do still need and have such church workers today. That's all there is to this discussion--how you choose to use the word.

I agree. Just as the scripture talks about 'the prophets' when referring to Old Testament prophets there are still new testament prophets mentioned in Acts. It is just a specific type of calling with a specific set of gifts.

Now I have run into some falsely claiming to be Apostles that think that apostles have greater authority over other callings. That is nonsense. All 5 ministry callings should work together. It is the active anointing of the Holy Spirit within a given individual that would have authority in a given situation. The false apostle I ran into wanted to subjugate any with a prophetic ministry.

 

[Faith.Man]

This distinguishing between disciples, which all Christ's followers were and are, and apostles (which those chosen for it were after the resurrection of Christ) is needless in this case, the number which was growing was small at the beginning, at the baptism from John, before any of the multitudes followed after Christ seeking him out. The point is Christ would certainly know the first followers, and Matthias was among them.

If Christ knew or gave much individual attention to the 70 disciples who were following Him, it is not recorded in the Bible. Where was Matthias seated at the last supper? Where was he?

Yahweh God knows all things, of all time, so in that sense, there is no "chance", as someone said, God doesn't throw dice. But prophecies from his revelation are from his knowledge, he does not have to do more to make sure it will happen when it altready will as it is in his knowledge. Yet this or other scripture I know of does not establish the Calvinist interpretation of predestination. We are all given choices, which is giving us chances, this included Judas.

If you really want to turn this thread as an attack on Calvinist thinking, we should instead start another thread or agree to meet at one of the thousands of threads covering the same ground. That's not the point of this thread that neither you or I started. Let's remember that. Do you really think God was surprised by Judas' choice? You do not seem to understand God's sovereignty.

 

[Faith.Man]

There were only 13 Apostles. The 12 and The "Apostle of Apostles", Mary Magdalene. .... To be an Apostle, you must be personally selected by Jesus.

All have all passed away long ago. Thousands have claimed to be an Apostle but they are not. They may be deciples.

zara ....

Show me where Mary Magdalene is selected by Jesus to be an apostle?

Mat_27:56 Among them was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
Mat_27:61 And Mary Magdalene was there, and the other Mary, sitting opposite the grave.
Mat_28:1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
Mar_15:40 There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome.
Mar_15:47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses were looking on to see where He was laid.
Mar_16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.
Mar_16:9 [Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.
Luk_8:2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,
Luk_24:10 Now they were Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James; also the other women with them were telling these things to the apostles.
Joh_19:25 Therefore the soldiers did these things. But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.
Joh_20:1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene *came early to the tomb, while it *was still dark, and *saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.
Joh_20:18 Mary Magdalene *came, announcing to the disciples, "I have seen the Lord," and that He had said these things to her.

Here are scriptures about Paul:

Rom_1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
Rom_11:13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
1Co_1:1 Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co_9:1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?
1Co_9:2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
1Co_15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
2Co_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia:
2Co_12:12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.
Gal_1:1 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
Eph_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus:
Col_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
1Ti_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope,
1Ti_2:7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Ti_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, according to the promise of life in Christ Jesus,
2Ti_1:11 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.
Tit_1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
Heb_3:1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession;
1Pe_1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen
2Pe_1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

 

[Faith.Man]

hello, faith.man

see: .... the nazarene way .com ....
"Mary Magdalene is mentioned in the Gospels as being among the women of Galilee who followed Jesus and His disciples. She was present at His Crucifixion and Burial, and went to the tomb on Easter Sunday to anoint His body. She was the first to see the Risen Lord, and to announce His Resurrection to the apostles. Accordingly, she is referred to in early Christian writings as "the apostle to the apostles."

orthodox praxis .org
Mary also carries the titles of “Apostle to the Apostles, Equal to the Apostles and of course Myrrh-bearer

zara

So in other words, this is a man-made doctrine with no Biblical basis. Okay, I understand your comment, but do not agree. I believe in sola scriptura. We are not going to agree on this, ever. It's pointless to discuss further.

 

[revrod]

Much of the modern church falls into the error of the Philidelphian church in Rev 3, they have 'little strength' and fail to enter the treasure chamber opened by the 'key of David'. Yeshua is offering those spiritual gifts but they fail to enter and claim those gifts. Part of the problem is the false teachings that the Spiritual gifts no longer exist. As a result they also teach the callings of Apostles and Prophets no longer exist as well.

Rev 2&3 is a list of problems within the churches and is a maturity scale as well as rewards of Glorification for those that overcome those errors. It is the Laodicean church that is operating in the Spiritual gifts but are doing so for their own personal prosperity. They are misusing the gifts.

I fully believe that the entirety of the spiritual gifts are in operation and available today. I was posing my "question" in support. I like the way you said it here, though. Thanks.

 

[Alive_Again]

All have all passed away long ago. Thousands have claimed to be an Apostle but they are not. They may be deciples.

The word is used and applied for at least 30 people in the NT if memory serves.

Apostles surely exist. They are "fathers". By an anointing given to them of God, they encourage the body to fulfill their ministries. By spiritual gifts, God tells them what it takes to build you up. They are forerunners. They have authority in the church, although this is a weak area in the body at this time. At times they move in all five ministry gifts.

I was raised by one. We would sit down to prayer and the Lord would give by word of knowledge a list of scriptures by book and verse. They would often tell a story or address something going on in my or his or our lives. Sometimes the Lord would do this and then in conversation in the course of the day, each of these scriptures would be spoken in conversation.

A lot of revelation and power gifts in manifestation. It establishes the ministry of the church. We have the pastor and the teacher and evangelists. We surely have apostles and prophets to for the establishment and edification of the church in the work of ministry, till we all come to full maturity, which is still down the road a bit!

 

[Yahu]

I fully believe that the entirety of the spiritual gifts are in operation and available today. I was posing my "question" in support. I like the way you said it here, though. Thanks.

Oh I KNOW that the spiritual gifts are still in operation today. Many of them have manifested in my own life. The first time I ever gave a prophetic word was while I was confronting a coven of witches at one of their weekly parties. I was just as surprised by it as they were. LOL, They called it 'channeling Jesus'. In my case, the gifts tend to manifest while in heavy spiritual conflict.

The first 'word of knowledge' I ever gave was also to one of the high priestesses of that same coven. At the time I didn't even realize it was a 'word of knowledge' but the coven did. I had told one of the girls that I didn't know what kind of evil she was into but it was something like witchcraft, human sacrifice or mass murder. That was the type of evil I sensed in her by my discernment of spirits. Her jaw dropped. I later found out she was a high priestess of Isis into black witchcraft and curses and had already dedicated 23 abortions to her goddess and used the blood from the fetuses in her witchcraft. It had been a word of knowledge and had been right on for all 3 points and I didn't even know she was into witchcraft at the time. She was just one of the girls that lived in my military dorm that I couldn't stand to be around. She literally stank of evil and death to me.

That coven was the first to recognize me as a prophet of a rival deity. They started off denying the existence of the Christian god. After meeting me they changed that view to Yah being just another of the 'gods' until the prophetic word I gave them came to pass and most of them repented and got saved. Those that rejected Yah even after His existence and superior power was proven to them ended up brutally killed in prison.

 

[FredVB]

If Christ knew or gave much individual attention to the 70 disciples who were following Him, it is not recorded in the Bible. Where was Matthias seated at the last supper? Where was he?

If you really want to turn this thread as an attack on Calvinist thinking, we should instead start another thread or agree to meet at one of the thousands of threads covering the same ground. That's not the point of this thread that neither you or I started. Let's remember that. Do you really think God was surprised by Judas' choice? You do not seem to understand God's sovereignty.

Christ could know any who came to him, or give individual attention to any, from all that I see. It was certainly true for the first followers who came to him, from the baptism he had from John. There were not the seventy already at that time but Matthias was there among a few others including others who Christ would appoint for apostles. And when he did he gave them authority to speak for him.

Your question of where Matthias sat, though unanswerable, raises an interesting issue. By this time there were about 120 disciples, followers faithful to him, he had arranged to have a room found for himself and his disciples, and only his twelve are said to have been seated with him at the table. Other disciples must have had place around other areas of the room, it would have to have been large.

I am not attacking Calvinism here, but you brought it up, and there is no basis from this discussion, as I can show. You are welcome to let it go. I do not at all ever say that Yahweh God is surprised, you are loading things into what I have said that I did not include. There is no need for using straw man arguments. God does know all, but what choices, or chances, Judas had does not contradict that.

 

[Faith.Man]

Christ could know any who came to him, or give individual attention to any, from all that I see. It was certainly true for the first followers who came to him, from the baptism he had from John. There were not the seventy already at that time but Matthias was there among a few others including others who Christ would appoint for apostles. And when he did he gave them authority to speak for him.

Your question of where Matthias sat, though unanswerable, raises an interesting issue. By this time there were about 120 disciples, followers faithful to him, he had arranged to have a room found for himself and his disciples, and only his twelve are said to have been seated with him at the table. Other disciples must have had place around other areas of the room, it would have to have been large.

I am not attacking Calvinism here, but you brought it up, and there is no basis from this discussion, as I can show. You are welcome to let it go. I do not at all ever say that Yahweh God is surprised, you are loading things into what I have said that I did not include. There is no need for using straw man arguments. God does know all, but what choices, or chances, Judas had does not contradict that.

If you don't have an answer from the Bible, you just make stuff up. There is no basis to believe that the 70 disciples, apart from the 12 apostles, were at the last supper. Good grief man, when you add to the Bible like that is heresy. There are only two scriptures that mention Matthias, and you've built a whole history of his every movement from that. You are not providing a credible argument.

 

[FredVB]

If you don't have an answer from the Bible, you just make stuff up. There is no basis to believe that the 70 disciples, apart from the 12 apostles, were at the last supper. Good grief man, when you add to the Bible like that is heresy. There are only two scriptures that mention Matthias, and you've built a whole history of his every movement from that. You are not providing a credible argument.

Talk about an attack, way to make one. I am never contesting any orthodox doctrine and recognise biblical basis. I made nothing up but have reason for conclusions. You could give specifics for where you think otherwise. In the case of how many disciples there were, see Acts 1, it shows the number of disciples, and I noted Christ called for a room to be found for him and his disciples. On the other hand there is no basis to say that they split up. And the same chapter gives the basis that Matthias was among them from the beginning. Nothing is being added, there should not be that accusation, there could be more familiarity with scripture.