apocryphal books, inspired or not ?

[alexsonofmatthew]

Why do you believe the apocryphal books ARE or are NOT inspired writings?

God Bless

 

[Keachian]

They are not inspired but are among the more useful fully human books that are around.

 

[alexsonofmatthew]

They are not inspired but are among the more useful fully human books that are around.

Thank you

What makes you come to the conclusion they are not inspired works?

 

[BBAS 64]

Thank you

What makes you come to the conclusion they are not inspired works?

I would say because there are mistakes in some of them (historical) in nature, and some of them say they are not.


In Him,

Bill

 

[classicalhero]

Far too often they contradict what is said in the rest of the Bible and as said above that does include historical mistakes.

 

[alexsonofmatthew]

Maybe some are inspired and some are not?

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

Enoch, Jasher, and Jubilees

These three are quoted by prophets, disciples and Jesus. They follow the sequence and the nature of scripture. They compliment scripture and even support and uphold scripture. These three it can be supposed where inspired. The others I have looked into, are more Blasphemous, are contrary to the nature and heart of scripture, are full of heresy in there very nature. This I have come to the conclusion after 5 years of research, and reading and listening to the reports of others research.

 

[Keachian]

Enoch, Jasher, and Jubilees

These three are quoted by prophets, disciples and Jesus. They follow the sequence and the nature of scripture. They compliment scripture and even support and uphold scripture. These three it can be supposed where inspired. The others I have looked into, are more Blasphemous, are contrary to the nature and heart of scripture, are full of heresy in there very nature. This I have come to the conclusion after 5 years of research, and reading and listening to the reports of others research.

Most copies of the Book of the Upright that we have are considered medieval forgeries at best, I think on this basis alone you need to go back and do more research. If we hold that anything that is quoted by Scripture is Inspired then should we consider Aratus's poem “Phainomena” or Epimenides of Crete's writings that Paul quotes in the Areopagus as canonical Scripture? The answer is no and there are reasons why the Church barring the Ethiopian Churches have refrained from thinking of Enoch and Jubilees as Scripture.

 

[Rubiks]

This might help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNbtyn0jxKo

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

Why Was Enoch not Included in the Bible?

Enoch is one of my favorite books

Enoch lived out as if in parable what would be the future status of the book he wrote. Enoch's book, like Enoch, was hidden away for a time, and only now is gradually coming into the spotlight for which it was purposed when written. Enoch indicated this possibility when he said the book he wrote so long ago was "not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come". Enoch also wrote, his book was for the "righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation". (Enoch 1:1-2)

fragments from at least 10 manuscript copies of the book have been found in the Dead Sea Scroll libraries recovered from caves in the Judean desert

Augustine was influential in further pushing the book into obscurity.

In the 1950's, all doubts that the Ethiopic Enoch was the same one quoted by New Testament writers were dispelled by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. In the Jewish libraries discovered in caves in the Judean desert, fragments from seven copies of Enoch in Aramaic had survived. An additional three fragments of Greek copies of Enoch were also found there. These fragments have been used to authenticate and spot-check the Ethiopic translation of Enoch. Since the Dead Sea Scroll libraries have been dated to the two centuries before Christ, we now know the Ethiopic Enoch is the real deal.

 

[alexsonofmatthew]

Why Was Enoch not Included in the Bible?

Enoch is one of my favorite books

Enoch lived out as if in parable what would be the future status of the book he wrote. Enoch's book, like Enoch, was hidden away for a time, and only now is gradually coming into the spotlight for which it was purposed when written. Enoch indicated this possibility when he said the book he wrote so long ago was "not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come". Enoch also wrote, his book was for the "righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation". (Enoch 1:1-2)

fragments from at least 10 manuscript copies of the book have been found in the Dead Sea Scroll libraries recovered from caves in the Judean desert

Augustine was influential in further pushing the book into obscurity.

In the 1950's, all doubts that the Ethiopic Enoch was the same one quoted by New Testament writers were dispelled by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. In the Jewish libraries discovered in caves in the Judean desert, fragments from seven copies of Enoch in Aramaic had survived. An additional three fragments of Greek copies of Enoch were also found there. These fragments have been used to authenticate and spot-check the Ethiopic translation of Enoch. Since the Dead Sea Scroll libraries have been dated to the two centuries before Christ, we now know the Ethiopic Enoch is the real deal.

Thanks for the information, its so interesting. I am fascinated by these books. What are your thoughts on Tobit? What do you agree and/or disagree with? or any other apocryphal book for that matter. Im curious

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

Thanks for the information, its so interesting. I am fascinated by these books. What are your thoughts on Tobit? What do you agree and/or disagree with? or any other apocryphal book for that matter. Im curious

First of all before anyone decides to delve into these other books make sure you know your KJV inside and out front to back. Despite any arguments this translation has stood the test of time. Then compare anything else you wish to read to the chronological order, message, and spirit found within the kjv. If it does not mesh, get rid of it. The only three books I have found to meet this minimal criteria is

Enoch

Jasher

Jubilee

Tobit to me would not be scripture, but more akin to a book about the mans trials and struggles, and he uses them to write a novel. we have many such books written today by struggling christian authors, such as CS Lewis.

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

THE BOOK OF TOBIT OR TOBIAS

The book is a religious novel characterized as a Hebrew romance and is a captivating story.

The message of the book is that God is both just and free. Suffering is not a punishment but a test.

it is a novel, a parable. not a true story, but rather a lesson in a story, like esops fables

 

[OzSpen]

Why do you believe the apocryphal books ARE or are NOT inspired writings?

God Bless

alex,

I urge you to read, 'Reasons why the Apocrypha does not belong in the Bible' and 'Errors in the Apocrypha' (both from the CARM website).

These include a number of reasons why the Apocrypha should not be regarded as Scripture.

The KJV of 1611 included the Apocrypha between the OT and the NT but did not regard the books as Scripture but helpful for reading.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Thanks for the information, its so interesting. I am fascinated by these books. What are your thoughts on Tobit? What do you agree and/or disagree with? or any other apocryphal book for that matter. Im curious

Why don't you take a read of Tobit 6:5-8 to decide if it is God-breathed (inspired) and should be in the Bible?

5 Then the angel said to him, "Cut open the fish and take out its gall, heart, and liver. Keep them with you, but throw away the intestines. For its gall, heart, and liver are useful as medicine." 6 So after cutting open the fish the young man gathered together the gall, heart, and liver; then he roasted and ate some of the fish, and kept some to be salted. The two continued on their way together until they were near Media. 7 Then the young man questioned the angel and said to him, "Brother Azariah, what medicinal value is there in the fish's heart and liver, and in the gall?" 8 He replied, "As for the fish's heart and liver, you must burn them to make a smoke in the presence of a man or woman afflicted by a demon or evil spirit, and every affliction will flee away and never remain with that person any longer.
​

Michael Houdmann has highlighted some of the problems with Tobit (or Tobias):

Many have highlighted a few historical and theological errors in Tobit. First, Tobit 1:15 incorrectly notes that Sennacherib was Shalmaneser’s son, rather than the son of Sargon II. Also, Tobit seems to imply that he was alive during the reign of Jeroboam I (about 930 B.C.), but at his death he was reported to be 117 years old. Theologically, Tobit asserts that almsgiving alone “will save you from death,” not, as Paul states in Galatians 2:15, that man is justified (saved) “by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.” And Jesus, in John 3:16, says that “whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Faith alone, therefore, not works or observing the Law, provides salvation (Source: 'What is the book of Tobit?')
​

I consider that this information provides good information for rejecting the Book of Tobit in Scripture.

Oz

 

[Awaken4Christ]

I know the books that Christ mentioned are inspired. He quoted quite a few,actually. But, I don't think he mentioned a single apocryphal book. That might be your answer right there.

 

[th1bill]

The books of the Apocrypha are not inspired works of God. They are useful books of the history of the period of God's silence. They were never Canonized, neither by the Jewish Believer nor by the Christian and the RCC included them well after the Churches had Canonized the New Testament.

The two points modern members of the Church, most not saved, refuse to take consideration of is the two strong points of God's character. God is the Omniscient God and He is the Omnipotent God. This means that God allows some things, such as Job's trials, and God controls others. Three times, once in the Mosaic Law, once in the Revelation and once more (I've lost the address from my memory) God has promised the worst of all plagues on he that will add to and on he that will subtract from God's pure Word.

For this to be, God must protect His Word and some will argue, yes but the RCC has held onto these books between the Testament since about 325BC. And I reply from the survey of the Church Universal Survey, completed by the Barna Group in the mid-eighties that less than 2% is the average of the Saved in any American Church and will suggest that it is possibly less in the European Churches. I currently have three friends attending the Catholic Church and all three of them have cast aside these books, God is still casting them out to the believers.