Anyone Who Believes in Eph 6: 12 Anymore?

[Bobber]

Do we really believe this as Christians that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers and the rulers of darkness of this age and against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places? Eph 6:12

Ephesians says OUR FIGHT, the spiritual persons fight IS NOT with flesh and blood and yet we see Christians it seems quick to go on an attack from a natural level when it comes to what we see take place about us. For example the political haranguing that's going on continually, the strife, the disdain and yes even the hate towards humans who govern or who are in power.

Who should Christians view as the enemy? Is it Donald Trump? Is it Hillary Clinton? How about Joe Biden or Mike Pence? How about Nancy Pelosi or Keven McCarthy? Is it the Democrat party or maybe the Republicans? These are human manifestations....but who is behind all things. As Christians we know there's two kingdoms....one of which is LIGHT and the other DARKNESS. Jesus is the Lord of the kingdom of LIGHT and Satan is the lord of the opposite of that.

I say we who are mature should be looking at the higher level of things and not be motivated by surface characters. That being the case just what do my fellow Christians believe is taking place let's say in America...NO I'm not talking about the flesh and blood people BUT rather behind the scenes in the realm of the Spirit. Surely it should be acknowledged there's a shaking taking place on that level so what is it?

I'll admit I found myself getting mad at flesh and blood characters and feel the Lord has told me to be careful of entertaining a carnal base way of reasoning. No matter what you think Satan is your one and only enemy and your job is to pray for flesh and blood people. Many of them are really puppets perhaps being controlled by powers they don't understand. So does anyone agree? Or are we left to just thinking our fight is against people.

 

[Dave L]

Do we really believe this as Christians that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers and the rulers of darkness of this age and against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places? Eph 6:12

Ephesians says OUR FIGHT, the spiritual persons fight IS NOT with flesh and blood and yet we see Christians it seems quick to go on an attack from a natural level when it comes to what we see take place about us. For example the political haranguing that's going on continually, the strife, the disdain and yes even the hate towards humans who govern or who are in power.

Who should Christians view as the enemy? Is it Donald Trump? Is it Hillary Clinton? How about Joe Biden or Mike Pence? How about Nancy Pelosi or Keven McCarthy? Is it the Democrat party or maybe the Republicans? These are human manifestations....but who is behind all things. As Christians we know there's two kingdoms....one of which is LIGHT and the other DARKNESS. Jesus is the Lord of the kingdom of LIGHT and Satan is the lord of the opposite of that.

I say we who are mature should be looking at the higher level of things and not be motivated by surface characters. That being the case just what do my fellow Christians believe is taking place let's say in America...NO I'm not talking about the flesh and blood people BUT rather behind the scenes in the realm of the Spirit. Surely it should be acknowledged there's a shaking taking place on that level so what is it?

I'll admit I found myself getting mad at flesh and blood characters and feel the Lord has told me to be careful of entertaining a carnal base way of reasoning. No matter what you think Satan is your one and only enemy and your job is to pray for flesh and blood people. Many of them are really puppets perhaps being controlled by powers they don't understand. So does anyone agree? Or are we left to just thinking our fight is against people.

“The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: He turneth it whithersoever he will.” Proverbs 21:1 (KJV 1900)

 

[Ricky M]

I believe it. I think both conservative AND liberal agendas originate from the same source, and reach the same end. Christians should NOT be voting for the lesser evil.

 

[Dave G.]

Ya in these times the Lord is looking for those who will face Him face to face, 0 question in my mind. A scalpel comes down from heaven cutting away and separating them. He knows who is His. I absolutely believe Ephesians 6:12 ,yep sure do.

 

[timothyu]

Perhaps if the church had taught as originally intended, the separation between the ways of the Kingdom and the ways of man's world built in our own image, instead of division between man, none of this would be an issue. Man vs man is infighting while on the same team. Problems can't be resolved by using the same methods that created them.

 

[Little Lantern]

I really, really appreciate this post, @Bobber. God has used it to answer my prayers to Him about some ongoing frustration I've been having with a couple distant relatives. Although I know this verse, I didn't connect the dots to my particular situation. This has definitely corrected my perspective, and I can now see clearly how to pray for them. I can't tell you the burden that's been lifted off me. Thank you so much!

 

[Bobber]

I really, really appreciate this post, @Bobber. God has used it to answer my prayers to Him about some ongoing frustration I've been having with a couple distant relatives. Although I know this verse, I didn't connect the dots to my particular situation. This has definitely corrected my perspective, and I can now see clearly how to pray for them. I can't tell you the burden that's been lifted off me. Thank you so much!

I'm glad that you've found peace. I thank the Lord for that.

 

[robinriley]

Do we really believe this as Christians that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers and the rulers of darkness of this age and against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places? Eph 6:12

(Robin)
Interesting verse ... I've attempted, a few times over the years, to compile my own Greek to English reading, but am not still satisfied with the results ...

Also, there's a source text variant between the Alexandrian and Byzantine reading, where two words
"tou aiOnos" ("of~the eon") are deleted after "darkness" ... but I see that your quote is Byzantine.

Where your reading has it as a verb ..."we wrestle" ... the actual Greek word, there, is a noun ...
...hE palE ...the [one] {3588 T-NSF} a~wrestling-throw {3823 N-NSF}

I've added "-throw" because the Greek word is from "pallO" which means to shake or vibrate; and,
with the wrestling of athletes, or the combat of soldiers it denotes a hand-to-hand struggle, involving a grappling technique of off-balancing or lifting an opponent and throwing them to the ground ...
My addition of this, the word -throw may be taking too much license with the verse, but it did, for me,
make the action talked about more visual ...

There's another word in this verse that I've found difficult ... the last Greek word ... it's an adjective, a stand-alone descriptive modifier, which doesn't have a noun present to modify ...
..."epouraniois" {2032 A-DPN} it's plural and neuter ... spirit beings are neuter, so instead of where your reading says ... "in the heavenly places"... I've opted for ....among with~the on-heavenly [beings]

(Note: The Greek preposition "en" ... or English "in" ... is usually read as "among" instead of "in" when the object is plural; hence my reading that way ... Also, the words being the dative case, such words inherently contain the additional thought of either "with~" or "unto~" ...
One other thing to note ...the word "epouraniois" is a Greek combination-word; that is it is the combination of the word "ouranO" {3772 N-DSM} plus the Greek preposition "ep/ epi" {1909},
which is our English "on" ... that is not just "heavenly" but ..."on-heavenly" ...I'm not sure, just
what we are supposed to make of this difference, but is, indeed, a different word from "heavenly"

There are other differences in our two readings ...

Where you have it as "principalties"
the word is "archas" {0746 N-APF}, which is often read as "a beginning," but here, where it's talking about spiritual beings, the Greek allows for a metonymy of person, that is it could be read as a preeminent being ... a~pre-eminence' ...

Where you have it as "powers" ..."exousias" {1849 N-APF} ... this is a dificult combination-word, which basicly means to permit, what is permissible, allowed, the power to do something ...This combined with the proposition "out" ... which makes for a very awkward reading of ....to~out-permits...
This reading of the word works in other verses, but it is, indeed, odd! And is it still talking to spiritual beings, or rather to some ...spiritual allowance these spiritual beings have been given by God ...

Where you have "rulers" ... there's much more to it than that ... there is, indeed, ther element of "fortifiers" ... this part of the word does relate to your "powers" ... but the Greek combination-word also contains the word though of ..."world" and "regulated" ... hence, not simply "powers" but rather "regulated-world-fortifiers" to~regulated-world-fortifiers {2888 N-APM}

6:12* That it be not unto~us, the wrestling-throw towards blood and flesh, but towards the pre-eminences'; towards the out-permits; towards the regulated-world-fortifiers of~this, the darkness of~the eon; [and] towards the spiritual [matters] of~the wickedness among with~the on-heavenly [beings].

we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers and the rulers of darkness
of this age and against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places?

All of this, of course, does not directly relate to what you were specifically using this verse to talk about ... but having a translation, that makes a closer attempt at showing the reader more clearly what the underlying Greek has to say ... well, sometimes this can be very rewarding.