Anyone want to discuss KJVO ?

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People see what they want to see for their own reasons. While I am not calling Christians atheists who don't believe in the KJB (King James Bible), one must realize the problem of when atheists see that there are errors in the Bible. That is a bad position to be in. It is merely a matter of disbelief in God's Word. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). There are many things that are hard to explain in the Bible. Jesus rose from the dead. God created the universe by speaking it into existence. Can we explain these things logically? No. But it is a part of the faith. We believe the Bible not because it is always logical and fits what we think should be true. But we believe the Bible because God desires faith from us to believe in it. So where a person sees error or impossibility in the Bible, they are not looking to simply trust what God's Word fully says and just believe what He says and seek to find the answer by asking God.

Have you asked God to explain to you what appears to be an error or contradiction in the King James Bible (KJV)? Most want to sort of follow the Lord, but they are not really seeking to be under a final Word of authority. Is this a big deal? I believe it can be in certain cases. I believe 1 Kings 13:11-24 should be a warning to all of us believers in the dangers of not trusting God's Holy Words over false words that are not really from God. I believe Modern Translations have placed words within our Bibles that can corrupt men's thinking if they whole heartedly believe the corrupted portions in their Bibles. For one, some Bibles imply that all future sin is forgiven a person (When this is not taught in the Bible - the KJB). I believe Modern Translations can hinder our growth. I believe Modern Translations can hinder our spiritual battle in standing up for the truth of His Word. But if taken too far, I am sure it can be a major problem in their walk (Whereby it can even damage their faith).

For what would it hurt a person to entirely trust in the King James Bible (even if you believed there are errors in it)? In what way do you believe it would effect their holy walk with the Lord? Does not God want us to have complete and utter faith in His Word? That is why these kinds of attacks that often involve insults, and no evidence involving Scripture are simply childish and or without any real substance or benefiit. Prove to me what would happen spiritually in a bad way if a person trusted a King James Bible. Yet, on the other hand, if a person trusted a Modern Translation 100%, they will not come to the conclusion of the Trinity because 1 John 5:7 is the one and only clear verse that teaches it. I have argued with Arians before who will say that 1 John 5:7 is not in the Bible. But if they were to believe the KJB, they would have to re-think their faith in what His Word says. So no. Nobody here has proven that the KJB has errors within it. What one sees is error where none exists. People can see problems in all kinds of things in life where there is no real problem or error.
 
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robycop3

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I believe that GOD overseen those who worked on the KJB because it was a type of translation that was unlike any other in human history. 47 translators worked on the KJB from the Antiochian line (and not the corrupt Alexandrian Egyptian line of manuscripts), and they all had to peer review one another's work. In fact, there were two opposing religious groups that worked on the KJB. They had to put aside their differences in order to work on this translation and it was checked over by the king, as well (Who was also very knowledgable of the Scriptures). The KJB was supposed to be the first Bible that was to be in the hands of the common man at the eve of the spread of printing technology to give it to the common folk. All the pieces fit together. God was giving the people the Word of God in history. But 400 years later, an attack came upon the Word of God. Two men who were known occultists had found two manuscripts. Westcott and Hort. One manuscript was locked away in a Catholic vault. The other was found in an Orthodox monastry. These manuscripts were Alexandrian (Egyptian) in origin. They were inferior in doctrine and accuracy and yet Westcott and Hort made these two manuscripts the basis for their Greek New Testament (upon which all Modern Translations are based upon today). Yes, Nestle, and Aland had later created a Greek text (upon which all Modern Translations are based upon, too), but they used Westcott and Hort's critical text as the basis for their translation. The point here is that we can see in history, an attack upon God's Word, and it is not good by any means. Even if you were not to buy into this historical narrative that can be verified yourself, you can simply just compare the doctrines side by side for the KJB vs. Modern Translations. The Trinity, the blood atonement, the deity of Christ, holy living are all attacked and or watered down with your Modern Translations (when compared to the KJB).
KJ didn't review the KJV.(NOT "KJB". You don't even know the name of your per version. Its makers named it the "Authorized VERSION of 1611.{AV 1611}) KJ merely gave the Anglican clergy the "go-ahead" to make a new Bible version, appointing Richard Bancroft, Archbishop of Canterbury, to oversee the project. Bancroft made a set of rules he believed KJ would like, & showed them to the king, who approved them. That's all KJ had to do with the project.

Proofreaders or not, they still made goofs, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4 & the addition of the words"and shalt be" in Rev. 16:5, not found in any known ms. of Revelation. (And we know which ones the AV makers used.)

And Tyndale made the 1st English Bible meant for the common man & clergy alike, saying his version would "make the boy who driveth the plough know of more Scripture than the priest himself.(Remember, Tyndale was a priest!)

Westcott & Hort were NOT occultists. Please Google their names & read their own words in full, not just modified snippets of them butchered & altered by KJVOs.

And almost all MVs are made from an eclectic mix of over 5K mss. & parts of mss. The AV makers used only 20 mss.

You have no proof the "Alex" mss are inferior. Most are older than the "Byz" mss. the AV men used; they didn't know of mosta the "Alex" ones.They would certainly have used them, too, had they known of them.

The NKJV is a revision of the KJV, largely re-translated from the same mss. the AV men used, with most of the KJV's goofs & booboos eliminated.

The KJVO myth remains phony as a Ford Corvette !
 
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robycop3

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People see what they want to see for their own reasons. While I am not calling Christians atheists who don't believe in the KJB (King James Bible), one must realize the problem of when atheists see that there are errors in the Bible. That is a bad position to be in. It is merely a matter of disbelief in God's Word. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). There are many things that are hard to explain in the Bible. Jesus rose from the dead. God created the universe by speaking it into existence. Can we explain these things logically? No. But it is a part of the faith. We believe the Bible not because it is always logical and fits what we think should be true. But we believe the Bible because God desires faith from us to believe in it. So where a person sees error or impossibility in the Bible, they are not looking to simply trust what God's Word fully says and just believe what He says and seek to find the answer by asking God.

Have you asked God to explain to you what appears to be an error or contradiction in the King James Bible (KJV)? Most want to sort of follow the Lord, but they are not really seeking to be under a final Word of authority. Is this a big deal? I believe it can be in certain cases. I believe 1 Kings 13:11-24 should be a warning to all of us believers in the dangers of not trusting God's Holy Words over false words that are not really from God. I believe Modern Translations have placed words within our Bibles that can corrupt men's thinking if they whole heartedly believe the corrupted portions in their Bibles. For one, some Bibles imply that all future sin is forgiven a person (When this is not taught in the Bible - the KJB). I believe Modern Translations can hinder our growth. I believe Modern Translations can hinder our spiritual battle in standing up for the truth of His Word. But if taken too far, I am sure it can be a major problem in their walk (Whereby it can even damage their faith).

For what would it hurt a person to entirely trust in the King James Bible (even if you believed there are errors in it)? In what way do you believe it would effect their holy walk with the Lord? Does not God want us to have complete and utter faith in His Word? That is why these kinds of attacks that often involve insults, and no evidence involving Scripture are simply childish and or without any real substance or benefiit. Prove to me what would happen spiritually in a bad way if a person trusted a King James Bible. Yet, on the other hand, if a person trusted a Modern Translation 100%, they will not come to the conclusion of the Trinity because 1 John 5:7 is the one and only clear verse that teaches it. I have argued with Arians before who will say that 1 John 5:7 is not in the Bible. But if they were to believe the KJB, they would have to re-think their faith in what His Word says. So no. Nobody here has proven that the KJB has errors within it. What one sees is error where none exists. People can see problems in all kinds of things in life where there is no real problem or error.

You're trying to LIMIT GOD ! You keep TELLING THE LIE that the KJV is "it". You act as if God can't keep His word in current language, forgetting that it's God who causes/allows the changes in languages.

Your KJV was made for the British of 400 years ago. The language has changed vastly in those 400 years, with American, Canadian, Australian, & other national varieties popping up. The English of the KJV has been left behind in all of them. It's a "Model T" version.

The KJVO myth is entirely a product of MAN. There's not one quark of Scripture that supports it or even hints of it, even in the KJV itself. Without Scriptural support, it CANNOT be true ! You've been told that fact repeatedly, but you still continue to TELL THE LIE of KJVO. Have you forgotten what GOD said about all liars? If you hadn't been shown the TRUTH about the KJVO myth, you would be guiltless, but I, & others hare have told you the fact that no doctrine of faith/worship can be true if it's not derived from Scripture. And again, the KJVO myth is wholly MAN-MADE ! Thus, it's FALSE !
 
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robycop3

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Then why did you say “no” earlier when I said “It still shows one of the most well known teachers of the Trinity was from Alexandria which supports the idea that it’s the Holy Spirit and not a specific manuscript that truly teaches us all things.”?

The well-known teacher Apollos was from Alexandria. He had to be shown the Gospel, but he readily believed it & taught it from then on.
 
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robycop3

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No, you didn't know because I had to clarify to you that I was speaking that Egypt was PREDOMINANTLY mentioned as being negative. So your point about the positive mention of Egypt is not relevant to what I said, friend. If the Israelites were told not to buy a horse from Egypt, then why do people think it is okay to get a Bible from that location? That is what many like yourself are unable to currently see.



I am sure dictionaries may have some inaccuracies in them, but that does not mean that we should throw them out. I look at Modern Translations like I am panning through dirt to get to the gold that is found in the KJB. There are certain truths that do line up. I am not denying that. But I reject anything that is tainted in Modern Bibles because the KJB is my final Word of authority. The OAO (Original Autograph Only) Proponent's final Word of authority is a little more muddy and or hard to pin down because it is written in a completely foreign dead language (Whereby if this language was read to an English speaking classroom, they would have no clue as to what was being spoken).



Please. Take a step back a moment, brother. Think as if you were in the shoes of the enemy for a moment. Would it not be in the best interest of the devil to subtly get people to doubt God's Word? See, by your not believing Psalms 12:6-7, the enemy has everything to gain. For if there is no perfect Bible in existence today, then my hands are clean because it would be nearly impossible to figure out what God's will is for my life trying to figure out dead languages. Do you really believe God calls every Christian believer to become a Hebrew and Greek expert? Does God's Word teach or allude to this? I don't see such a teaching in His Word.

See, my friend: What you will not find in your Bible is a defense for the OAO (Original Autograph Only) Position, or the All Bibles Has Errors View. If that is what you believe, you need to defend this view from Scripture. But in all my many years in debating this issue, no attempt like this has ever been made (Which should show the biblical bankruptcy of your position). Your position is saying there is no attack on God's Word. But I see it every day. Self proclaiming Bible believing Christians are attacking the very authority they are supposed to be standing upon.

Psalm 12:6-7 is about the PEOPLE mentioned earlier in that psalm. The AV makers knew that! They placed a footnote in the AV 1611 for the 2nd them in V7. It reads, "Heb. him, I. euery one of them.". The literal hebrew is "him", but the AV men subbed the impersonal pronoun "them" cuz they knew the context was about people, plural. That false idea that it's about God's words comes from a CULT OFFICIAL'S book, Our Authorized Bible Vindicated (1930) by 7TH DAY ADVENTIST official Dr. Ben Wilkinson, which is the "foundation stone" of the current KJVO myth.

The fact that the KJV has goofs & booboos is easily proven. You can't get past the two I posted earlier. And there are many more, such as "Thou shalt not KILL" in Ex. 20:13. The very next chapter calls for the death penalty for certain crimes/sins.

"The KJVO myth-Phony as a Ford Corvette!"
 
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To all:

Is the KJV wrong for rendering "Pascha" as the English word "Easter" in Acts of the Apostles 12:4?

No. Although "Pascha" was originally a Hebrew word ("פּסח (pesach)"), Greek, being the language of a predominantly Christian nation, had appropriated the Jewish word and gave it the Christian meaning of "Easter". That is why in modern Greek, the primary meaning of "Πάσχα" is Easter and Passover is actually the secondary meaning when "Πάσχα" is qualified as the "εβραϊκό Πάσχα (Hebrew Pascha)" or the "Πάσχα των ιουδαίων (Pascha of the Jews)". Many other languages of Christendom are like modern Greek in making Easter the primary meaning of the transliteration of "Pascha":

VEvybs_Q_d.jpg

See the entire article here:
“Easter” or “Passover” in Acts 12:4? - King James Version Today
 
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robycop3

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Yes, BH, you wanna leave because you & your false KJVO myth are getting clobbered here. You cannot defend it; you cannot disprove the goofs & booboos in the KJV; you insist that English speakers use an outdated, archaic, mistake-filled Bible version that's not even in their current language. That's like telling King James to use Wycliffe's version!
 
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robycop3

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To all:

Is the KJV wrong for rendering "Pascha" as the English word "Easter" in Acts of the Apostles 12:4?

No. Although "Pascha" was originally a Hebrew word ("פּסח (pesach)"), Greek, being the language of a predominantly Christian nation, had appropriated the Jewish word and gave it the Christian meaning of "Easter". That is why in modern Greek, the primary meaning of "Πάσχα" is Easter and Passover is actually the secondary meaning when "Πάσχα" is qualified as the "εβραϊκό Πάσχα (Hebrew Pascha)" or the "Πάσχα των ιουδαίων (Pascha of the Jews)". Many other languages of Christendom are like modern Greek in making Easter the primary meaning of the transliteration of "Pascha":

VEvybs_Q_d.jpg

See the entire article here:
“Easter” or “Passover” in Acts 12:4? - King James Version Today
Sir, I am well aware that "pascha NOW means either Easter or passover in MODERN Greek. But in LUKE'S time, it meant only passover. EASTER DIDN'T EXIST when Luke wrote "Acts", & Verse 3 clearly proves PASSOVER was then ongoing. Luke could NOT have been writing about something that DIDN'T YET EXIST !
And besides, even if it HAD then existed, neither Herod nor the Jews he was trying to please woulda left off dealing with Peter to have observed it !
 
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To all:

Psalms 12:7 is misconstrued sometimes by certain die hard Anti-King-James proponents, but the context is both Psalms 12:4 and Psalms 12:6.

“Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?” (Psalms 12:4) (KJB).

Psalms 12:6 KJB
“The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.”

If you were to look at Modern Translations, it says the same thing.

So this is the context of Psalms 12:7 in the King James Bible that refers to the words of the Lord that will be preserved for all generations perfectly.

In fact, why would one want to argue against a perfect Word of God for all generations?

Would it not be bad to have a Bible that is full of errors and is not perfect?
 
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To all:

Words can change with the passage of time. It does not mean that a more recent word is a mistake in a later translation. Again, people see errors in God’s Word where none exists. The fact that the word “Easter” is translated to “Pascha” in another language shows that Easter is not an error in the KJB (despite those who clearly do not want to see the obvious).
 
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robycop3

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To all:

Psalms 12:7 is misconstrued sometimes by certain die hard Anti-King-James proponents, but the context is both Psalms 12:4 and Psalms 12:6.

“Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?” (Psalms 12:4) (KJB).

Psalms 12:6 KJB
“The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.”

If you were to look at Modern Translations, it says the same thing.

So this is the context of Psalms 12:7 in the King James Bible that refers to the words of the Lord that will be preserved for all generations perfectly.

In fact, why would one want to argue against a perfect Word of God for all generations?

Would it not be bad to have a Bible that is full of errors and is not perfect?

Did you deliberately ignore the context, and the marginal note I pointed out in the AV 1611 ?

Remember, the Psalms are SONGS. And Dave used "artist's license" in writing them, to make them fit with certain melodies then in use. Thus, H could leave off singing about the people of that psalm, & add some words praising God & His words.

OK, for the sake of discussion, let's say Ps. 12 IS about God's words. WHERE DOES HE MENTION OR EVEN HINT AT THE KJV IN IT ??????????????????????????????????????

Where does it mention Bible translations, PERIOD ??

You've fallen for that false notion in 7th day adventist Dr. W's book, which modern KJVO authors use as the source for their trash.
 
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robycop3

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Words can change with the passage of time. It does not mean that a more recent word is a mistake in a later translation. Again, people see errors in God’s Word where none exists. The fact that the word “Easter” is translated to “Pascha” in another language shows that Easter is not an error in the KJB (despite those who clearly do not want to see the obvious).

Sir, for the umpteenth time,EASTER DIDN'T EXIST when Luke wrote "Acts "! The translation is supposed to reflect LUKE'S written thoughts, & clearly, he was referring to PASSOVER,as Acts 12:3 proves. And the AV makers clearly knew Easter from passover, as they added an "Easter-Finder" to the AV 1611, considering Easter & Christmas to be the 2 holiest days of the year.

In the time the KJV was made, Easter & passover were not called each other's names any more. Easter was clearly the observance of Jesus' resurrection.

"Easter" is a goof in the KJV.
 
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Some just want to argue in circles when there is no contradiction. I will not address them directly because no matter what one says, it’s never good enough or helpful for them to see the forest from the trees.

All I can do is show the truth to others and pray for them.
 
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robycop3

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Some just want to argue in circles when there is no contradiction. I will let them be because no matter what one says, it’s never good enough or helpful for them to see the forest from the trees.

All I can do is pray for them.

Well, you could stop TELLING THE LIE that the KJVO myth is true; clearly, it's NOT !

And I haven't talked in circles. You can't counter or disprove a thing I've said; same for things others have said against the KJVO myth here.

You're trying to get past that big ole bear called THE TRUTH !
 
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Fundamentalists who are promoting modern textual criticism and who are particularly vicious toward the defense of the King James Bible, such as Bob Ross, Gary Hudson, Doug Kutilek, and the editor of From the Mind of God to the Mind of Man, are making the ridiculous and blundering accusation that the defense of the King James Bible can be traced to Benjamin Wilkinson, a Seventh-day Adventist.

The defense of the King James Bible pre-dated Benjamin Wilkinson.

John Jebb (1775-1833)

a. Jebb, bishop of Limerick, stated: “Let individuals give new versions ... but in days of epidemic quackery, let our authorized version be kept inviolate, and guarded as the apple of our eye” (John Jebb, 1829, Life of John Jebb, ii, p. 454; cited by Samuel Hemphill, A History of the Revised Version of the New Testament, pp. 21, 22).

b. Dr. Jebb continued to oppose the revision of the Authorized Bible. During the discussion which surrounded the proposal for revision in May 1870, in the Lower House of the Province of Canterbury, Jebb gave his opinion that it was “a fatal thing that a version, of which we have been now in possession for more than 250 years, should be subject to the criticism of this very hasty and not very orthodox age” (John Stoughton, Our English Bible, p. 288).

Henry John Todd (1765-1845)

a. Henry Todd was chaplain to the king of England and keeper of the Archbishop of Canterbury’s records at Lambeth Palace. In 1819 Todd published A Vindication of Our Authorized Translation and Translators of the Bible. This work was occasioned by the clamor of some who wanted to correct the Received Greek New Testament and the King James Bible on the basis of modern textual criticism. This clamoring gradually increased among a relatively small segment of influential scholars through the 19th century and resulted, ultimately, in the Westcott-Hort Greek New Testament and the English Revised Version of 1881.

b. Todd understood that modern textual criticism was intimately associated with theological heresy. I searched for Todd’s treatise for five years before locating it in the British Library and having a copy made for my personal library. Consider the following important excerpt: “For when WE SEE MEN OF THE MOST LATITUDINARIAN PRINCIPLES UNIFORMLY PRESSING FORWARD THIS DANGEROUS PROPOSAL; when we see the most unbounded panegyrics [praise] bestowed on THOSE, WHO HAVE CONVERTED THE MOSAIC HISTORY INTO ALLEGORY, AND THE NEW TESTAMENT INTO SOCINIANISM; when we see these attempts studiously fostered, and applauded, by the advocates for this projected [Bible] revision; WE MUST CONJECTURE, THAT SOMETHING MORE IS MEANT THAN A CORRECTION OF MISTAKES, OR AN IMPROVEMENT OF DICTION. Those doctrines, the demolition of which we know to be, in late instances, the grand object of such innovators when they propose alterations in articles of faith, or correction of liturgical forms, are surely in still greater danger when attempted, by the same men, under the distant approaches of a revision of our English Bible (Todd, A Vindication of Our Authorized Translation and Translators of the Bible, 1819, pp. 79, 80).

c. Todd represented the view of many 19th century men who understood that the critical Greek New Testament was a doctrinal issue.

John Dowling (1807-78)

a. Dowling, who pastored Baptist churches in Rhode Island (Providence) and New York (Broadway Baptist Church, New York City), was the author of the influential History of Romanism.

b. In 1843 Dowling published a defense of the KJV in “The Burning of the Bibles, Defence of the Protestant Version of the Scriptures Against the Attacks of Popish Apologists for the Champlain Bible Burners (Philadelphia: Nathan Moore, 1843). This was occasioned by the burning of hundreds of King James Bibles by Jesuit priests in Carbo, New York (near Champlain) in October 1842 and a subsequent newspaper article by a Roman Catholic priest named John Corry in which the accuracy and authority of the King James Bible was attacked. Dowling made the following defense of the KJV: “The Bible which Protestants now use, was translated by order of King James. It was published in A.D. 1611. It is perhaps, the most accurate that has been made, in any language. It is the joint labour of forty seven of the most learned oriental scholars in Europe; men of pure piety and christian honour. They were divided into six companies: each man had his share assigned to him: each company examined each translation made by individuals: each part of the translated Bible was examined, at least, fourteen times: and, was finally, adopted by the companies in full assembly. ... In this, have the defects, and errors of preceding translations, been carefully corrected” (Dowling, pp. 10, 11).

c. Dowling quoted from seven authorities in praise of the King James Bible, such as John Selden, who said, “The English translation of the Bible is the best translation in the world,” and J.W. Whitaker, who said, “It may be compared with any translation in the world without fear of inferiority; it has not shrunk from the most vigorous examination; it challenges investigation, and in spite of numerous attempts to supersede it, it has hitherto remained unrivalled in the affection of the country.” Dowling gave his own opinion that “as a whole, I have never yet seen a version which I would be willing to substitute for that as the commonly received version of the mass of the people” (p. 62).

d. In 1850 John Dowling published The Old-Fashioned Bible, or Ten Reasons against the Proposed Baptist Version of the New Testament(New York: Edward H. Fletcher, 1850). It was an edited version of a message he had delivered at Hope Chapel, Broadway, March 31, 1850, and again at First Baptist Church, Brooklyn, pastored by J. L. Hodge. Dowling used the strongest terminology to describe his concern over the new version of the English Bible that had been published by the American and Foreign Bible Society and he exalted the King James Bible in the highest manner: “The fact is that the common version which it is proposed to amend, is, taken as a whole, a wonderful translation, and although it may be conceded that it is not perfect--for what human performance is so?--yet it is exceedingly doubtful, whether a translation has ever been made from any ancient book, Greek, Latin, or Oriental--which in point of faithfulness to its original can be compared with this, or which has fewer errors in proportion to the entire amount of its contents. ... TO ATTEMPT TO SUPPLANT IT BY A ‘NEW VERSION,’ OR TO INTRODUCE ANY MATERIAL ALTERATIONS, WOULD BE LIKE ‘GILDING REFINED GOLD’... It is sufficient to say that the hundred thousand of New York Baptists, and the million of American Baptists, have been made so chiefly by means of the good old English Bible. ... In conclusion, then, I say, brethren, sisters and fathers, cling to your old-fashioned Bible!” (The Old-Fashioned Bible, or Ten Reasons against the Proposed Baptist Version of the New Testament, 1850, pp. 11, 12, 13, 27, 36).

The Trinitarian Bible Society of England (TBS)

a. The TBS was formed in 1831 from a conflict within the British and Foreign Bible Society (BFBS) over the doctrine of the Trinity and the deity of Jesus Christ.

b. With the publication of the English Revised Version New Testament and the Westcott-Hort Greek text of 1881, the TBS began to take an active position on texts and versions. A number of articles were published in the TBS Quarterly Record at the turn of the century critiquing the ERV and supporting the Received Text. Some of these drew heavily upon John Burgon’s The Revision Revised, as well as the research of F.C. Cook and Frederic Scrivener. The Trinitarian Bible Society has continued to stand for the Received Text and the King James Bible. Their published writings have promoted all of the major points commonly given in defense of the KJV. Consider some examples:

(1) In 1904 the British & Foreign Bible Society issued an edition of the critical Greek text prepared by Eberhard Nestle and based upon the work of Tischendorf, Westcott and Hort, and Weiss. That same year the Annual Report of the Trinitarian Bible Society made this plain statement in contradiction to the confusion being promoted by their liberal counterparts: “There is a great shaking going on all around us; the foundations are being displaced; ancient landmarks are being removed; institutions are being assailed; confusion is written on all things ecclesiastical and political. There is only one thing that can sustain us in times like these, and that is living faith in the living God. It is the design of the enemy to quench the lamp of Inspiration, to get rid of the supernatural and miraculous in the Word of God; to break down its authority and integrity by minimising differences of translations; for, IF THE BIBLE IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD, BUT ONLY ‘CONTAINS’ IT, THEN ONE VERSION CAN CONTAIN IT, OR AS MUCH OF IT, AS ANOTHER. IF THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ‘THE BIBLE,’ THEN “A BIBLE’ OR ANY BIBLE WILL DO. The enemy cares not by what agency he gains his great end of making the Word of God of none effect. The enemy will use any instrument to accomplish his purposes; and the greater and the better the agent, the more effectually will he obtain his ends” (Holding Fast the Faithful Word, p. 15).

(2) “The architects and advocates of the modern English translations of the Holy Scriptures often assure us that their numerous alterations, omissions and additions do not affect any vital doctrine. While this may be true of hundreds of minute variations there is nevertheless a substantial number of important doctrinal passages which the modern versions present in an altered and invariably weakened form” (God Was Manifest in the Flesh, TBS Article No. 10).

(3) “For too long the ‘science’ of Textual Criticism has been in bondage to the authority of a small class of ancient manuscripts, with the Sinai and Vatican copies at their head, which are in thousands of instances at variance with the Greek Text preserved in the great majority of the documents now available for ascertaining the true text. ... The result has been that even in the ‘evangelical’ seminaries generations of theological students have been encouraged to accept without question theories which involve the rejection of the historical text and the adoption of an abbreviated and defective text cast in the mold of the Vatican and Sinai copies” (Many Things, TBS Article No. 33).

(4) “No evangelical Christian, learned or unlearned, would wish to follow [modernistic] writers along the perilous paths of infidelity in which they strode with such presumption. There is another danger, no less serious, in that Textual Criticism, the evaluation of the actual manuscripts in the ancient languages, the preparation of printed editions of the Hebrew and Greek Text, and the modern translations now being made in English and many other languages, are very largely conducted under the direction or influence of scholars who by their adoption of these erroneous theories have betrayed the unreliability of their judgment in these vital matters. WE MUST NOT PERMIT OUR JUDGMENT TO BE OVERAWED BY GREAT NAMES IN THE REALM OF BIBLICAL ‘SCHOLARSHIP’ WHEN IT IS SO CLEARLY EVIDENT THAT THE DISTINGUISHED SCHOLARS OF THE PRESENT CENTURY ARE MERELY REPRODUCING THE CASE PRESENTED BY RATIONALISTS DURING THE LAST TWO HUNDRED YEARS. Nor should we fail to recognise that scholarship of this kind has degenerated into a skeptical crusade against the Bible, tending to lower it to the level of an ordinary book of merely human composition” (If the Foundations Be Destroyed, TBS Article No. 14).

Fundamentalist leader William Aberhart (1878-1943)

a. Aberhart was both a Christian leader and a greatly beloved political leader. He was Premier of Alberta from 1935-43. In the late 1920s, Aberhart separated from the Regular Baptists over issues such as Bible inspiration and the interpretation of prophecy. In 1924 he established the Calgary Prophetic Bible Institute. The first student enrolled in this Bible Institute was Ernest Charles Manning, who eventually became the premier of Alberta from 1943 until 1968. Aberhart also founded the 1,250-seat Bible Institute Baptist Church, which often featured the preaching of well-known fundamentalist leaders such as William B. Riley and Harry Rimmer.

b. Aberhart trained his people and his students to have confidence in the divine preservation of the Bible. He defended the King James Bible as the preserved Word of God.

c. A summary of Aberhart’s teaching was given to me personally by Pastor Mark Buch (1910-1995), who was educated by Aberhart in the 1930s. Buch was the founder and pastor of the People’s Fellowship Tabernacle in Vancouver, British Columbia. This church was a stronghold for biblical fundamentalism in western Canada from the time it was founded in 1939. Buch knew and preached with many of the well-known fundamentalist leaders of the last century, including J. Frank Norris, G. Beauchamp Vick, and Bob Jones Sr. Buch took the second year apologetics course Aberhart taught on the subject of inspiration and preservation at the Prophetic Bible Institute. Note how Pastor Buch described Aberhart’s position on Bible preservation: “Mr. Aberhart was one of the greatest Bible teachers in Canada. He was the first person I came in contact with WHO KNEW THE TRUE STORY OF THE DIVINE INSPIRATION AND PRESERVATION OF GOD’S HOLY WORD. He explained how it came down from the first apostolic faultless autograph, its safe keeping through the Byzantine church, the majority reformation copy by Erasmus of Rotterdam, William Tyndale’s translation, the Authorized committee of mental and spiritual giants, and the resultant glorious treasure—the Authorized Version” (Mark Buch, In Defence of the Authorized Version, People’s Fellowship Tabernacle, Vancouver, British Columbia, p. 25).

d. During my personal interviews with Pastor Buch, he gave me a copy of one of Aberhart’s booklets on the subject of Bible versions. It was titled The Latest of Modern Movements: Or What about the Revised Version of the Bible? Published in 1924 or 1925, it was printed and distributed by the thousands. In the title of his booklet, Aberhart was referring to the English Revised Version of 1885. He also mentioned Darby’s Version, Russell’s Diaglot, Moulton’s Bible, the American Revised Version, 20th Century in Modern Speech, Moffatt’s Translation, Goodspeed’s New Testament, and Kent’s Shorter Bible. HE WARNED THAT MODERN TEXTUAL CRITICISM AND THE MULTIPLICITY OF MODERN VERSIONS WAS WEAKENING THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE.

e. The position William Aberhart held on the Bible version issue in the 1920s is exactly the position that David Otis Fuller taught, and ABERHART WAS WRITING AND TEACHING THIS YEARS BEFORE THE PUBLICATION OF WILKINSON’S BOOK. In the course of my research, I looked into the sources of Aberhart’s position. One of his sources was the writings of John William Burgon, whose book Revision Revised was first published in 1883 and was reprinted many times. Mark Buch testified to me that Aberhard used Burgon’s material in his Bible institute classes.

Fundamentalist leader Philip Mauro (1859-1952)

a. Mauro was a famous patent lawyer who argued before the bar of the United States Supreme Court. He wrote the legal brief that was used by William Jennings Bryan at the famous “Scopes Trial” to defend the Tennessee law prohibiting the teaching of evolution in public schools. Converted in 1903, at age 45, Mauro became a bold witness for Jesus Christ. He testified of his faith to Thomas Edison, the famous inventor. Mauro was aboard the Carpathian when it rescued survivors from the ill-fated Titanic in 1912. He wrote many books on various themes, including The Truth about Evolution, The Progress of the Apostasy, The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation, The Wonders of Bible Chronology, and Speaking in Tongues. Mauro also wrote articles for The Fundamentals, the books that gave the fundamentalist movement its name in the 1920s.

b. Mauro’s position on the Bible version issue was no secret. In 1924 he published Which Version? Authorized or Revised? This was several years before the Adventist Benjamin Wilkinson published his book on this subject. Like Aberhart, Mauro leaned heavily upon the research of John Burgon. Note the following statement: “In view also of the leading part the English speaking peoples were to play in shaping the destinies of mankind, we are justified in believing that it was through a providential ordering that the preparation of that Version was not in anywise affected by higher critical theories in general, or specifically by the two ancient Codices [Vaticanus and Sinaiticus] we have been discussing” (Mauro, Which Version?).

Thus, it is obvious that the defense of the King James Bible did not begin with the Adventist Benjamin Wilkinson in the 1930s.

Source:
Was King
 
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robycop3

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Sir, please note that, in my mentions of Dr. W. as the writer of the 'foundation stone", I plainly atated, "THE CURRENT EDITION" of the KJVO myth.

KJVO actually started in 1612, as the Anglican Church touted it as the only "official" English version out there, & there was little argument, as at that time, it was the newest English version available. However, it was priced outta the range of the common man, so the Geneva & Bishop's versions continued to be the collon man's Bible version for awhile.

But now, in English-speaking countries, no one has any real authority to command people to use only one given version. Thus, the KJVO myth has reared its ugly head once more, & some people such as yourself have become in thrall to it.

It appears, Sir, that you've allowed the trash of Ruckman, Riplinger, Melton, Reagan, etc. to influence you to the point where you actually believe it. The TRUTH is, that, as God caused/allowed the English language to change, He has kept His word current in it, just as He did in the late 1500s-early 1600s by causing the Geneva, Bishop's, & KJ versions to be made.

Clearly, the KJV is now outdated. It's not in our English style, & much of it is not readily understood by today's English readers. This is not lost on GOD, so he's caused updated translations to be made.

You don't seem stupid, so I'm baffled as to why you try to LIMIT GOD to just one archaic, outdated English Bible translation, when that notion is clearly false.

Remember what God said about liars ? Well, sir, the KJVO myth you hawk is clearly a LIE. This has been PROVEN to you right here, in several ways. You have offered NOTHING to even begin to counter those points.

The KJVO myth was planted by Satan in the minds of unsaved men, to promote strife & dissension within and among Christian congregations. He's succeeded in that mission, as he's played upon mens' susceptibility to non-Scriptural doctrines of faith/worship. And YOU, Sir, seem to have bought into his lie lock, stock, & barrel !

"The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !"
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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For what would it hurt a person to entirely trust in the King James Bible (even if you believed there are errors in it)? In what way do you believe it would effect their holy walk with the Lord? Does not God want us to have complete and utter faith in His Word? That is why these kinds of attacks that often involve insults, and no evidence involving Scripture are simply childish and or without any real substance or benefiit. Prove to me what would happen spiritually in a bad way if a person trusted a King James Bible. Yet, on the other hand, if a person trusted a Modern Translation 100%, they will not come to the conclusion of the Trinity because 1 John 5:7 is the one and only clear verse that teaches it. I have argued with Arians before who will say that 1 John 5:7 is not in the Bible. But if they were to believe the KJB, they would have to re-think their faith in what His Word says. So no. Nobody here has proven that the KJB has errors within it. What one sees is error where none exists. People can see problems in all kinds of things in life where there is no real problem or error.
Because if I put my faith 100% in the men commissioned by King James to translate a Bible for official use in the Anglican Church I would not be placing my faith completely in God.

And if you encourage people to put faith in this single translation of scripture even if they believe it has errors, because you believe that God worked to inspire the men and that what we perceive as error is not, you’re almost making the argument the Catholic and Orthodox churches make against Protestantism in that you believe that a group of scholars would be infallibly divinely inspired to translate scripture yet you reject the idea that patriarchs with apostolic succession would be the same.

Because what was the Reformation predicated on more than believing the church was in error?
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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Basically your argument comes across like God inspired the Apostles, he inspired the translators of the King James translation, but then he left the rest of us to just “figure it out” by our own human understanding because you seem completely resistant to the idea that every believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise and that if there were any version of the Bible other than the King James translation used the entire church would descend into Arianism and apostasy.

If you can’t see how entirely hopeless that outlook is I don’t know how to convince you. You think that it will hurt your apologetics to not use one verse to prove the Trinity yet you’ll then turn around and say God doesn’t actually speak to us anymore so just “figure it out” from the KJV alone.

But our God is the God of the living, and we as believers should trust in His Power and His glory to bring about His kingdom, not our ability to “figure out” on our own how to apply scripture from one authorised version.
 
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robycop3

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Bible Highlighter, I know several people who PREFER the KJV because that's the version they were raised on, before newer ones came out, but who don't tell the KJVO lie. A famous one I listen to on the radio is the late Baptist pastor, Dr. J. Vernon Mc Gee.
He taught a year-long radio Bible class, covering EVERY verse in the KJV. When he came to Ex. 20:13, he said the CORRECT translation is "Thou shalt not MURDER". When he got to Acts 12:4, he explained that "Easter" is NOT correct; it should be "passover", and why. He also explained he was NOT KJVO, but he PREFERRED preaching/teaching from the KJV cuz that was the version he'd been raised on, & thru which he heard God's word & was saved.

If THAT was your stance, no prob, but telling people the KJV is the only valid English Bible version, & that it's perfect, is TELLING A LIE ! You've been shown irrefutable PROOF of those facts right here, so if you're still telling people the KJVO lie, you're risking God's wrath against LIARS!

If one accidentally tells something that's not true, that's not lying, but when one tells something that's been PROVEN false, that's deliberately LYING !
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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I think he genuinely believes that what he says is true but I also think Arius did as well.

And I genuinely don’t see the good in teaching the academic understanding of the Trinity while not at the same time teaching that the Holy Spirit is living and present in the church.
 
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