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Would anyone dare to say that one is saved by faith plus works. Not on your life would any vile and filthy sinner utter such a heresy.
There is no mention of Gods 4th commandment in these scriptures. What sabbaths do you think these scriptures in Colossians 2 are talking about? Did you know that under the ceremonial MOSAIC laws there are many kinds of annual sabbaths in the old testament that can fall on any day of the week?
So is it.......
1. The sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54
Can you show me where Colossians 2 is talking about God's 10 commandments?
Yep no where. Happy to show where Paul is quoting from in the Old testament if your interested, just let me know.
If you read James carefully it actually says.Yes, the bible actually says it.
Faith Without Works Is dead
You were commanded to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Show me that command in the Torah.
Jesus said not to divorce except for immorality. Show me that commandment in the Torah.
Actually no Paul is saying no such thing. Colossians 2:16-17 is not in reference to God's 4th commandment. Colossians 2 in fact is not talking about any of God's 10 commandments or God's 4th commandment which is one of the ten commandments. It is talking about the annual shadow sabbaths in the feast days from the old covenant that were shadows of things to come.
There is also no mention of God's 4th commandment Sabbath in HEBREWS 14 which is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days, and judging others not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination with God.
Happy to discuss the scripture details if your interested.
Nevertheless, grace precedes any faith or works.
The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.
The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them.
When the New Testament mentions Gods commandments, as in keeping Gods commandments, it’s NOT the Decalogue that is meant, but the TWO commands:
The scripture makes it clear, that love fulfills the law of God.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe FULFILLING OF THE LAW.
And this:
Mat 22:36 Master, which isthe great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second islike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these TWO commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.
One big difference between the old ten, and the two love commands, is that the two love commands far exceed how well you treat your neighbor.
If you love him as yourself, you’ll do many more acts of kindness for him than the Decalogue requires.
Some fallacious arguments: if the Ten Commandments are not in effect, that means we can lie, steal, kill, worship idols, etc.
On the contrary, it should be obvious, that if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t do him any harm: you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his wife or goods, bear false witness against him, etc,
And if you love God with all your heart, you
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And the two verses taken together mean: Jesus nailed the law of Moses to His cross, THEREFORE let no man judge you for not keeping the sabbath days that Jesus took out of our way.
Yes, the bible actually says it.
Faith Without Works Is dead
Is there any evidence in the Bible indicating that evangelized Gentiles are expected to keep the Sabbath? If not, is there any scriptural evidence against it? Or are the Scriptures rather silent in this regard?
We know now by reading deeper and not by not surface reading the scriptures and by adding the context back that Colossians 2:16-17 is not even talking about God's 4th commandment but the shadow annual sabbaths in the annual feast days of the old covenant that can fall on any day of the week (scripture support here and here linked) not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 in the new covenant.This is what we have heard from apostle Paul: Therefore LET NO ONE PASS JUDGMENT ON YOU IN QUESTIONS OF food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or A SABBATH. -Colossians 2:16
Indeed, no more annual sabbaths in the feast days.according to what apostle Paul have spoken, we Gentiles do not let anyone judge us with regard to a Sabbath day !
Indeed, have considered this one well. The Aramaic actually reads like this...Also, consider this, that we have heard : So then, THERE REMAINS A SABBATH REST for the people of God, -Hebrews 4:9 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. -Hebrews 4:10 Let us therefore strive to enter THAT REST, so that NO ONE may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11
When our Lord Jesus Christ came and preached peace to us, Gentiles who were far off and peace to the Jews who were near. For through Christ, we both Jews and Gentiles have access in one Spirit to the Father. We both have brought near by the blood of Christ.And we Gentiles are no longer strangers and aliens, but we are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God; Therefore, we both Jews and Gentiles are God’s people built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone. Therefore, we both Jews and Gentiles who are God’s people are called to strive to enter a Sabbath Rest !That Sabbath Rest is God’s rest or also called the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Good points that you made.
How about what is spoken in Hebrew 4:11
Let us therefore strive to enter THAT REST, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11
Could you elaborate what you understand ?
Right the two great commands are found in the book of the law, yet Jesus gave us a command far greater that the two, we are to love others as Jesus loves us. He loves us so much that He gave His life on the Cross to redeem us. Jn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.Yeshua did not give 2 new commandments...love God and your neighbor are both in the Torah...in Deuteronomy and in Leviticus...
To whom was the writer of Hebrews referring? Were they Sabbath keepers? Why would the writer even have to preach to the choir since they were already observant? Why would the writer say that they had never entered the Rest God had for them, verse 6?Hi SANTOSO, yes no problem. I believe Hebrews 4:11 is a continuation of the contexts of Hebrews 4:1-9. The "THAT REST" is the same as the "MY REST" that those who did not believe the gospel could not enter into. The "MY REST" is "GOD'S REST" and this is already identified in the Hebrews 4:1-5 as the "seventh day Sabbath" of creation where God rested from his work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 and blessed the "seventh day" of the week and made it a "Holy day" of rest for mankind *Mark 2:27.
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.
[10], For he that is entered into HIS REST (see Hebrews 4:1-5 showing God's rest is the "seventh day Sabbath), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH and the rest of believing and following God's Word] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].
God bless.
Was James referring to the works of the Law or the works meaning good deeds? Was James disputing Paul? If so who do we believe?Yes, the bible actually says it.
Faith Without Works Is dead
Hi SANTOSO, yes no problem. I believe Hebrews 4:11 is a continuation of the contexts of Hebrews 4:1-9. The "THAT REST" is the same as the "MY REST" that those who did not believe the gospel could not enter into. The "MY REST" is "GOD'S REST" and this is already identified in the Hebrews 4:1-5 as the "seventh day Sabbath" of creation where God rested from his work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 and blessed the "seventh day" of the week and made it a "Holy day" of rest for mankind *Mark 2:27.
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.
[10], For he that is entered into HIS REST (see Hebrews 4:1-5 showing God's rest is the "seventh day Sabbath), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH and the rest of believing and following God's Word] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].
God bless.
If you're using this philosophy than why is it the only commandment you decided you don't want to keep is the one that starts with Remember. The only one that uses the word Holy and the only one God blessed? You talk about the love commandments which are important, so if you're using this same philosophy than this verse is very simple. How do you love God according to the Bible?Some fallacious arguments: if the Ten Commandments are not in effect, that means we can lie, steal, kill, worship idols, etc.
We are now under the two love commands, which fulfills ALL the law.
It should be obvious, that if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t do him any harm: you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his wife or goods, bear false witness against him, etc,
And if you love God with all your heart, you won’t take His name in vain, or worship idols.
Another fallacious argument: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.
Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.
If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday, he’d be preaching to empty seats.
What are "my commandments"? Why do you try to add to scripture something that is not there by indicating that "my commandments" is referring to the TEN commandments?If you're using this philosophy than why is it the only commandment you decided you don't want to keep was the one that starts with Remember. The only one that uses the word Holy and the only one God blessed? You talk about the love commandments which are important, so if you're using this same philosophy than this verse is very simple. How do you love God according to the Bible?
John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
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