Any Question ?

[Raja]

Maybe I am misunderstanding this, so please Raja, explain.

by the way I like your name alot

They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such time and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness.
2:222

this verse is very simple and profound at the same time . it tells Muslims about the special regular case which every woman have to go through . the period of menstruation . but the meaning here needs some explanation :

here Allah Has told us that this special case which comes to woman needs special treatment . first during this period husbands should abstain from making love ( sexual relation only ) with their wives until this period finished and woman get cleaned .

the recent medical researches has proved that making sexual relation with woman who is under this special situation causes many diseases for both man and woman !

second , woman in this special period suffers from inner tumults so she needs special treatment . Islam orders men to be very kind and delicate during this period . this verse does not mean that in during the menstrual time we should treat women like discarded person nor to should neglect them or even show any kind of contempt towards them.

On the contrary , we must try to soothe them during this crucial period , the only thing we should not do is " lovemaking " . thus a man should be very kind with her wife during this period , he may speak words of love to her , kiss her , flirt with her , chip her etc


The second part of this verse talks about another crucial matter related with the special relation between a husband and his wife . that after this period is finished , a man can make love with his wife as much as he wants . but he must be aware of one thing , that never lie with her in her " rear part " . I am sorry for saying that but there is no shyness in learning . because " posterior lovemaking " causes many diseases as many medical researches say . it is something which , any healthy and normal person, should loathes it .

The conclusion of this verse emphasizes on the importance of " cleanliness " for Muslim man . Allah State those who love to be cleaned with those who turn unto him . in fact " cleanliness " is a very very important notion in Islam and talking about it requires plenty of time .

I hope I could explain the verse good

Raja



​

 

[Raja]

AlanGurvey





How absurd.
But you made an excellent point for Christianity.
Because Muhammed had no witnesses, no credentials, no credibility is the precise reason Islam is what it is....without purpose.
because they believe as you, that proof means nothing.

I can hardly believe you think that documentation and witnesses are not relevant.

Who tell you that Islam is without purpose ?

And how this could be while this religion has more than billion people ?

If it is without purpose as you said , how – some centuries ago – this religion has spread in most of the terrestrial globe ?

Don’t let hatred or bigotry lead you to make unfair judgment my friend .

And tell me please , what do you mean by witnesses , credentials ..etc ??

Lol does this mean any prophet before he start his mission should bring some formal papers with him , and maybe this papers should be stamped by God or by the angel who responsible about " Human Resources " !!

When Mohammad started his message as a noble prophet he faced many troubles and problems , many people did not believe him or follow him immediately , rather they abused him and made him suffers a lot .

But because he had no doubt in his truthfulness as a messenger who is sent by God . he withstand and insist to stay the course and convey his noble message to all people . His Lord supported him by many miracles , the greatest among them was the Holly Quran ( we should remember that Mohammad was illiterate person ) .

And because he was a true and honest prophet , he could success and thousands and thousands of people embraced Islam , and this process continues up till now .

After all this , a speech like what you have said seem to be nonsense and I am sorry for saying that but you have to be rational and neutral before you make judgments .

Raja ​

 

[Raja]

Greetings;
can you defend Mohammed against the fact that he had sexual relations w/a 9 year old girl, Aisha{his youngest bride}, and desired her when she was much younger, when he himself wa sin his 50's?


Thank you.

In Reason:
The very irreverand Bill

This issue most often is aroused and many non-Muslims thinks it is a weak spot on Moahmmad's life !

we have argued about this point before in this forum , but it is ok to repeat argument about it again because refuting of this issue is very easy .

I will answer you from three perspectives :

1- western or non-arabian people should know first the geographical nature of Arab world specially that part of the Arabian peninsula at that time ( time of Mohammad ) .
the rate of growth of that area is very rapid because of the nature of the land and climate there . thus when we speak about a 9 years old girl this does not mean a baby-girl as you may imagine !
a 9 years old girl at that time may equal a 16 or even a 17 years old girl at our time .

2- if you aim to mention this point to show that Mohammad may had some odd or abnormal desires , let me tell that this is not true simply because if we check his biography ( specially this which related with marriage and wives ) we will notice many wonderful points which , on the contrary , prove that he was never be an odd or randy person as some anti-Muslims like to conceive .
let me tell you a little about that : first we know that Mohammad married to Khadigah , a woman older than him by 15 years ! he was at 25 of age and she was at 40 !they lived together and he never marry again during their life ( despite that was a common matter at that time) and after 20 years Khadigah died , Mohammad now is 45 of his age. Let us assume , if he is a randy frequently marrying person , why he did not achieve his desires when he was young ? I think it is more suitable and comfortable to do that when the one is still young !
Nevertheless he did not marry immediately after Khadigah' death and for the last moment of his life he still faithful for her reminiscences .
His second marriage was from a woman elder than him by about 5 years ! that's means this woman was at 55 or more and he was at about 50 ! I have to tell you that marriage in arab life is considered a very vital and vivid matter which has versatile sides , it is not only a matter of having sex ! thus , marriage may approaches the spaces between two different tribes or societies . it enhances the relationship among people , ,sometimes it may stop war etc

So all marriage is done by Mohammad was to serve a great and noble purpose and not for " libido " !

Otherwise how you can explain that most of his wives were very old women , widows , except Aisha ?

3- now let us consider his marriage to Aisha ,in fact this thing was a very great issue if you try to look at it from another perspective .
there were many great aims behind this marriage . first of all it a was a faithful touch from Moahmmad to his faithful and honest friend Abo Baker ( the father of Aisha ) . every tribe and family have a great desire to ally prophet Mohammad ,it is a great honor for any family so this made Abo Baker very happy and proud ( we have to remember that Abo Baker was the first person who believe in Mohammad's message and he became his helper and backer and for that he suffers a lot ) .
secondly , this marriage serves Islam maybe as never any thing else has done ! and this marriage is a strong confirmation on the importance of Woman's role and state in Islam !
woman is represent a considerable section of Muslim society and this section should be tended very carefully . Aisha became a very important resource and reference for Muslims after the death of prophet Mohammad . she himself and alone narrated more than 1500 Hadith from Prophet Mohammad . of course her young age allowed her to achieve that and help her to keep many things from prophet Mohammad and then tell others and became as a judge in many controversial issues ( specially those who related with woman stuff !)

anti-Muslims used to accuse us always that we abuse woman and neglect them , but this confound such allegations .

when you imagine that – at that time – after the death of Prophet Mohammad – a great fellows of prophet Mohammad came to Aisha ( a woman of 20 or more ) to ask her about vital issues , what was the opinion of prophet Mohammad in this or that , what he used to do in such cases .. etc . Is this a picture of abusing women or scorning them?

And we know that prophet Mohammad used to consult his wives in many issues specially those which related to women's stuff . to make the formula complete , the section of young women should enter and participate , this section was represented by Aisha !

Do not look at this marriage as something for libido or abnormal appetite form an odd person ! this assumption does not match or fit with many points .

Finally , let us consider a very important issue related with this matter and refute any false allegations easily :

If his marriage from Aisha was something odd or monstrous , why all his enemies at that time never mention to this ??

You know good that prophet Mohammad had many enemies even after the message of Islam is settled in Arabic peninsula . this makes us wonder why any of those enemy think to use this as a weak spot against Mohammad and say that he is an odd man because he got married to a 9 years old girl ??

Read all the biographic books , and you will find many accusations or bad speech about Mohammad by his enemies , even the point of his multi-marriage by about 9 women , but you will never find any word about the matter of Aisha as a monstrous act to marry a 9 years old girl !!

This will lead us to understand that this thing was never seem to be monstrous at that time , rather it was something normal , otherwise this would be a great opportunity to attack Mohammad and throw off his personality as a great prophet . His enemies would not mis good chance like this !

I am sorry for make it so long , but I wanted to finish this matter because I noticed that it repeated many times . and believe me I had to shorten my replay because argument in such matter requires much speech but I think this will be enough and satisfied .

This is for that point and InshaAllah I will come back to replay on the other points . just let me tell you , in brief , that you bear many wrong ideas and beliefs about Islam ! but I am really glad that you " ask " so I can make the matter very clear .

Each point you made requires long time and speech to go through , in fact you just mentioned the same familiar issues that we used to hear from western different media , and from anti- Muslims allover the world . regrettably , there is a big misunderstanding for Islam and its principles and history . I am not saying that this is due anti-Muslims or others , the main reason behind this misunderstanding is Muslims themselves because they did not pay much attention to convey the real and the honor picture of Islam to others .

I wish that Allah will help me to participate a little in this and convey even a part of the honor and great picture of Islam .
Again let me thank you for these vital points you made because I think it is time to clarify many things .

Regards

Raja







​

 

[Raja]

Greetings;
can you defend Mohammed against the fact that he had sexual relations w/a 9 year old girl, Aisha{his youngest bride}, and desired her when she was much younger, when he himself wa sin his 50's?

Can you defend Mohammeds calling other beliefs by very insulting names? Can you defend him and the Quran against the implication that if Islam becomes the promient belief somewhere that the followers of Islam and the theocratic rulers must kill the apostates, treat Jews and Christians as second class citizens{at best} and treat them as criminals or worse if they refuse to submit to the rule of Islam and its's followers, treat the Pagans{people of all other beliefs, including faiths such as Buddhism and other non-pagan religions} and Infidels{faithless} worse than even the Christians and Jews get treated. Can you defend your faith gets the insults and prejudices,intolerance and ignorance it displays towards others by the commands of Allah and Mohammed, and why it demands special treatment and special privelage by the non-believing world?

What about this idea that Islam means peace, when it actually means "submission",and in the long run it means peace through submission to the religion of Islam, and when we bypass the few verses used by "moderate" muslims and supporters of Islam, the very few used OVER AND OVER again, and take the teachings of the Quran and Hadiths in further context, that there is actually much Intolerance,PREJudice,insults towards others beliefs,and even some more violent and hateful teachings.

Can you defend your aProphet against his more brutal and tyrannical side, his occasional theivery,violence,opression and persecution of others during his time.

Can you defend the moderate Muslims whom are not moderate even in the sense that Moderate Christians are moderate, only that they are NOT extremist types{but still equivelent to evangelical and fundamentalist christians-NOT Liberal/moderate christians}, and whom when terrorists and extemists do atrcoious things to themselves and others, that the Moderates speak only{most, not ALL the time}somewhat softer rebukes against their more extreme brethren, but when someone critisizes the faith or does something in the name of free speech such as those infamous{but not actually all that extreme; not nearly as extreme as the cartoons that Islamic publications in Islamic nations tend to do about others-=especially the Jews}Danish cartoons- the moderates become alarmist and whine for special treatment and get more angry at these harmless free speech actions than at their extremist terrorist brethren?

Can you explain why global religiously based terrorism against others is allmost specifically a Islamic thing, not christian or buddhist or Pagan or Satanist or Hindu,etc

Can you truly explain away the claims of many Ex-Islamics{many beeing themselves Arabaic, most actually} whom wer elonf time devotents of the faith; such as those behind
faithfreedom {dot} org
apostatesofislam {dot} com

Thank you.

In Reason:
The very irreverand Bill

Dear Bill

In fact you put many important questions , almost they cover the whole area about the doubts that we used to hear from anti-Islam all over the world .

I have the pleasure to answer all your question despite that will requires plenty of time – which I really lack nowadays – however, let me put one important condition before we go through this .

I want an avowal from you that what brought you here is just a pure desire of knowledge for knowledge' sake only . you come to know or learn some facts about Islam . Before God this will be a plea either against me or you . my duty is to clarify anything for you but I will do this just if you are honest with me and confess that you come to learn and know . Your time and mine is so valuable , I don’t want to waste time and in pure disputatious for disputatious only ! or to play the game of " catching errors " .

If you have an honest desire to learn it is my pleasure to give you all what I know . if you have another purpose I beg your pardon I can not go through this . Time is much valuable to waste it in blind argument . I come here just to clarify facts and to accomplish my duty as a Muslim . Not to argue with others or abuse any one .

Regards

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[LittleLambofJesus]

quote ronnee: 3.If Islam is from God, why is the Koran without chronolgy and without Muhammed's ancestry?

It doesn't need to, that he was a man, chosen by G-d to be a prophet is all that is needed.

But of course you are correct.

And we appreciate muhammad agreeing with at least a small part of our NT "Jesus" being born of a virgin and a great prophet like unto muhammad.

Gabriel was a busy "angel" indeed.

Luke 1:26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,

(Young) Mark 9:7 And there came a cloud overshadowing them, and there came a Voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is My Son--the Beloved, hear ye him!!!!;'

 

[Skillganon]

2:222 They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an sickness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness.

Maybe I am misunderstanding this, so please Raja, explain.

May I add one thing to brother Raja's reply. The word "sickness" is not a entirely a correct word. As sickness might imply an illness, however it should be noted that rather means something that hurt's or cause pain, discomfort, and it has been translated as such.

Correct me if I got it wrong brother Raja arabia.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

2:222 They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an sickness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness.

May I add one thing to brother Raja's reply. The word "sickness" is not a entirely a correct word. As sickness might imply an illness, however it should be noted that rather means something that hurt's or cause pain, discomfort, and it has been translated as such.

Correct me if I got it wrong brother Raja arabia.

In the Jewish Tanach God considered it" unclean".

Perhaps muhammad got that from some jewish writings.

Levi 15:19 ' If a woman has a discharge, [and] the discharge from her body is blood, she shall be set apart seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. 20 'Everything that she lies on during her impurity shall be unclean; also everything that she sits on shall be unclean. 21 'Whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 22 'And whoever touches anything that she sat on shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening.

 

[Raja]

May I add one thing to brother Raja's reply. The word "sickness" is not a entirely a correct word. As sickness might imply an illness, however it should be noted that rather means something that hurt's or cause pain, discomfort, and it has been translated as such.

Correct me if I got it wrong brother Raja arabia.

Yes my dear brother you are right . the word " sickness" is wrong here and this is one of the problems of translation .

It is something as you said that hurts or cause pain I know good what is the word in arabic but I can not convey its meaning by English !

thanks for the comment my brother

 

[Raja]

In the Jewish Tanach God considered it" unclean".

Perhaps muhammad got that from some jewish writings.

Levi 15:19 ' If a woman has a discharge, [and] the discharge from her body is blood, she shall be set apart seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. 20 'Everything that she lies on during her impurity shall be unclean; also everything that she sits on shall be unclean. 21 'Whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 22 'And whoever touches anything that she sat on shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening.

over and over we have to said that Mohammad was illiterate person !

and yes there are some similarities bewteen Quran and other heavenly scripture because ther source is One .

regards

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In the Jewish Tanach God considered it" unclean".

Perhaps muhammad got that from some jewish writings.

Levi 15:19 ' If a woman has a discharge, [and] the discharge from her body is blood, she shall be set apart seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. 20 'Everything that she lies on during her impurity shall be unclean; also everything that she sits on shall be unclean. 21 'Whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 22 'And whoever touches anything that she sat on shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening.

over and over we have to said that Mohammad was illiterate person !

and yes there are some similarities bewteen Quran and other heavenly scripture because ther source is One .

regards

Muahmmad could see, hear and speak couldn't he? Just as when we are born we are illiterate, but eventually we learn how to read and write, unless of course muhammad was born with a permanent brain defect that didn't allow him to read or write.

Exodus 24:8 And Moses took the blood, sprinkled [it] on the people, and said, "This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to all these words."

Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than [that of] Abel.

 

[seed757]

Muahmmad could see, hear and speak couldn't he? Just as when we are born we are illiterate, but eventually we learn how to read and write, unless of course muhammad was born with a permanent brain defect that didn't allow him to read or write.

Exodus 24:8 And Moses took the blood, sprinkled [it] on the people, and said, "This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to all these words."

Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than [that of] Abel.

There is one important fact that always seems to be missed when the discussion of Muhammad's(pbuh) illiteracy comes up.

That is that written scripture was not readily available back then as it is today with the advent of the printing press. Being that all scripture was hand written, only the rich and affluent had the ability to possess volumes of holy writ. Or if you were the leader of a religious community, the offerings of the people would be collected to pay for profesional scribes to make the scriptures for the use of the place of worship.

Now seeing that Muhammad(pbuh) could not read, nor was he a man of great wealth, the odds of him having access to a written copy of the bible seem very slim.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Muahmmad could see, hear and speak couldn't he? Just as when we are born we are illiterate, but eventually we learn how to read and write, unless of course muhammad was born with a permanent brain defect that didn't allow him to read or write.

Exodus 24:8 And Moses took the blood, sprinkled [it] on the people, and said, "This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to all these words."

Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than [that of] Abel.

There is one important fact that always seems to be missed when the discussion of Muhammad's(pbuh) illiteracy comes up.

That is that written scripture was not readily available back then as it is today with the advent of the printing press. Being that all scripture was hand written, only the rich and affluent had the ability to possess volumes of holy writ. Or if you were the leader of a religious community, the offerings of the people would be collected to pay for profesional scribes to make the scriptures for the use of the place of worship.

Now seeing that Muhammad(pbuh) could not read, nor was he a man of great wealth, the odds of him having access to a written copy of the bible seem very slim.

Are you saying no jews had access to the Scriptures that muhammad knew, even the OT? Or that no jews hadn't heard of Paul's and the other Apostle's teachings?

Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily [to find out] whether these things were so.

 

[seed757]

Are you saying no jews had access to the Scriptures, even the OT? Or they hadn't heard of Paul's and the other Apostle's teachings?

Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily [to find out] whether these things were so.

No. Not exactly.

It wasn't as if every Jew had a copy of the Tanakh laying around the livingroom somewhere. Only the rabbis and maybe scribes actually owned them.

If you wanted to see the Torah scroll...go to the synagogue. The same with the Christian scripture. Christians of the time may have remembered some of what they were taught, but for the most part in order to see a bible one had to go to church and ask the bishop. Unless of course you were luky enough to live near someone of means that owned their own personal copy. But that was extremely rare.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No. Not exactly.

It wasn't as if every Jew had a copy of the Tanakh laying around the livingroom somewhere. Only the rabbis and maybe scribes actually owned them.

If you wanted to see the Torah scroll...go to the synagogue. The same with the Christian scripture. Christians of the time may have remembered some of what they were taught, but for the most part in order to see a bible one had to go to church and ask the bishop. Unless of course you were luky enough to live near someone of means that owned their own personal copy. But that was extremely rare.

Yep. And it was the fact that not many had the Scriptures, even the common jews in Jesus's days for example.
Those that did have them used them as a Power Tool, as we can see in the early church crusades and the like.