• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Any moderate Anabaptists here?

Antje

Regular Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,026
79
Vancouver
✟24,068.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
I attend a Mennonite church (in the Mennonite Church Canada conference), so I thought I might find myself a nice CF home here in the Anabaptist forums. However, I am finding that many of you are WAYYY more fundamentalist and conservative than I am accustomed to!

Are there any Anabaptists or Mennonites here who are more moderate or even liberal in their theology? I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything (Haha! Now that would be very un-Anabaptist of me!), I'm just wondering if there are any other Anabaptist CFers out there from a line of theology/practice that is more familiar to me.:wave:
 

MrJim

Legend 3/17/05
Mar 17, 2005
16,491
1,369
FEMA Region III
✟50,122.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Most of the ones I ever knew that fit that category have moved on from CF~you might check in WWMC, the liberal christian forum here and see if anyone hangs out there...

I used to be in what is now MennoniteUSA (the old "Mennonite Church" denom)~did they have the old MC/GCMC (General Conference Mennonite Church) groups up there? I think our conference had a missionary or plant or something in the Thunder Bay area.
 
Upvote 0

WayneinMaine

Regular Member
Dec 9, 2006
351
40
Maine
Visit site
✟18,764.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
I attend a Mennonite church (in the Mennonite Church Canada conference), so I thought I might find myself a nice CF home here in the Anabaptist forums. However, I am finding that many of you are WAYYY more fundamentalist and conservative than I am accustomed to!

Are there any Anabaptists or Mennonites here who are more moderate or even liberal in their theology? I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything (Haha! Now that would be very un-Anabaptist of me!), I'm just wondering if there are any other Anabaptist CFers out there from a line of theology/practice that is more familiar to me.


Well.

There really have not been many, or any posts relevant to Anabaptism for a very, very long time. Part of the difficulty is that this group was never well defined but merely labeled "Anabaptist" as a place for non-Baptists who were creating a stir on another forum regarding peace issues. There has been a lot of reluctance to even restrict the group to Anabaptism (Quakers, Messianics and "Trail of Blood" Ana-Baptists are not Anabaptists as commonly understood: Mennonite, Amish Hutterite and Brethren. The character of this group is such that I know many Mennonites who simply don't bother with CF because there really is not a place for Mennonites, Amish, Hutterites and Brethren on it.

For myself personally I'm an Anabaptist in the sense defined by Harold Bender's "Anabaptist Vision" or in the sense of Anabaptism being "the third way" of the Reformation. I may be easily taken as conservative, but I'm not fundamentalist or even Evangelical Protestant, but committed to the spirituality embraced by the Anabaptists of the 16th century.

I would love to see this discussion group focused on and actually discussing Anabaptism. Maybe you could tell us what "Anabpatism" means to you. It might even help focus the group.
 
Upvote 0

Antje

Regular Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,026
79
Vancouver
✟24,068.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
MrJim: Yes, Canada had the same MC and GC groups that you had in the States. My family has deep roots in the Evangelical Mennonite Conference (EMC or "Kleine Gemeinde"), but when we moved to Toronto in 1993, there were no EMC churches, so we started attending a GC church (now MC Canada). I have stuck with that denomination since then, except for a 2-year hiatus at an Anglican church.

I would say that I agree with Harold Bender's "Anabaptist Vision." If I ever try and describe my beliefs to a non-Mennonite, I usually include things like adult baptism, peace and nonviolence, separation of church and state, and a desire to follow Jesus in all things.

It's more the following topics that make me feel not at home here: male/female roles in church or family, head coverings, literalistic/fundamentalist interpretations of scripture, and an intense interest in the "end times."

I'm not saying that those things don't fit with Anabaptism, I'm just saying it's those things that make me feel like maybe this is a very different group of Anabaptists than what I'm used to.
 
Upvote 0

WayneinMaine

Regular Member
Dec 9, 2006
351
40
Maine
Visit site
✟18,764.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
MrJim: Yes, Canada had the same MC and GC groups that you had in the States. My family has deep roots in the Evangelical Mennonite Conference (EMC or "Kleine Gemeinde"), but when we moved to Toronto in 1993, there were no EMC churches, so we started attending a GC church (now MC Canada). I have stuck with that denomination since then, except for a 2-year hiatus at an Anglican church.

I would say that I agree with Harold Bender's "Anabaptist Vision." If I ever try and describe my beliefs to a non-Mennonite, I usually include things like adult baptism, peace and nonviolence, separation of church and state, and a desire to follow Jesus in all things.

It's more the following topics that make me feel not at home here: male/female roles in church or family, head coverings, literalistic/fundamentalist interpretations of scripture, and an intense interest in the "end times."

I'm not saying that those things don't fit with Anabaptism, I'm just saying it's those things that make me feel like maybe this is a very different group of Anabaptists than what I'm used to.

I thought the KGs were pretty conservative.

In any case, we have to acknowledge a wide diversity among the groups descended from the Anabaptists, some have retained more of the original concepts and spirituality of their founders and some have assimilated to the point of having little relationship to the orignial Anabaptist. I think the very visible witness of conservative Mennonites and Amish and their "twin distinctives" of non-conformity and non-resistance draws a lot of focus on those aspects.

I personally think it's great to interract with other Anabaptists (conservative, liberal, Old Order, neo-Anabaptist) on the basis of our shared values, and yes, that may bring some clashes of views regarding things like head covering, but the values and concepts behind such distinctive practices are worthy of consideration. Why, for example, have Mennonite churches changed? Are they drawing closer to the Anabaptist Vision or are they (and I include Conservative Mennonites as well) being assimilated into Protestantism? I think exploring this requires the participation of all sorts of Anabapatists.
 
Upvote 0

Antje

Regular Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,026
79
Vancouver
✟24,068.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Yeah, the Kleine Gemeinde is reasonably conservative, but I haven't attended their churches since I was 7 years old.

I'm all for diversity and conversation too, I'm not saying I have a beef with "conservatives" here, I was just feeling like I wasn't seeing anyone at all in the Anabaptist forums who sounded like me :).

Here's an interesting thought to throw out there: It is my feeling that some of the mainline-conservative Mennonite churches (MB's and EMC's in my experience) are becoming more and more like mainline-protestant churches and losing some of their Anabaptist distinctives, such as a peace and nonviolence stance. More so the MB's than the EMC's (in my experience). Some of the MB churches I attend seem no different than any mainline non-denominational church. However, the MC's (one of the more liberal Anabaptist groups I can think of) seem to be clinging very tightly to their peace and nonviolence stance, and other Anabaptist distinctives.
 
Upvote 0

WayneinMaine

Regular Member
Dec 9, 2006
351
40
Maine
Visit site
✟18,764.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
I'm all for diversity and conversation too, I'm not saying I have a beef with "conservatives" here, I was just feeling like I wasn't seeing anyone at all in the Anabaptist forums who sounded like me :).

Ditto, but perhaps for different reasons.

Here's an interesting thought to throw out there: It is my feeling that some of the mainline-conservative Mennonite churches (MB's and EMC's in my experience) are becoming more and more like mainline-protestant churches and losing some of their Anabaptist distinctives, such as a peace and nonviolence stance. More so the MB's than the EMC's (in my experience). Some of the MB churches I attend seem no different than any mainline non-denominational church. However, the MC's (one of the more liberal Anabaptist groups I can think of) seem to be clinging very tightly to their peace and nonviolence stance, and other Anabaptist distinctives.

I have not had any personal interractions with MB's, but they adopted Evangelicalism a long time ago so they are following their natural course. There are other conferences in the Mennonite church (CMC for example) following teir lead.

The MC's have been shedding conservatives for years. I think they have reduced the "Anabpatist Message" to the "Peace Witness", but in this I believe they share alot with left leaning main line churches and less with primative Anabpatists. It is on pacifism that they have jumped the trackt to Protestantism.

For a number of reasons and through many different channels I have been working over the quest for the central tenets of Anabpatism out of which Mennonitism grew and which lead inevitably to the beliefs and practices that Mennonites are known for: primarily non-resistance and non-conformity. A lot of Mennonites, Conservative, liberal and moderate, have been drawn away from their roots and drawwn into various Protestant strains and factions. There really is not, in any strain of Protestantitm: Fundamentalism, Evangelicalism, Main Line Liberalism, Pentecostalism, Revivalism, etc. anything that naturally gives rise to the characteristic practices of the early Anabaptists and later, the Mennonites, Amish and Hutterites. And that being the case, there is nothing in those strains of Protestantism to sustain non-resistance, simple lifestyle, humility, separation from the world, anti-materialism and such as the Anabaptists were known for.

Having come from Catholicism and then Evangelical Protestantism I personally have had to plant myself in the hermeneutic and practical theology of Anabaptism in order to sustain a "faith" that believes that Jesus meant what He said and that He expects us to do what he taught us to do. A lot of Mennonites have inadvertently cut themselvs off from their roots.
 
Upvote 0

Paul1965

Liberal Fundamentalist
Jul 15, 2009
90
6
Ohio
✟22,740.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am interested in Anabaptists. I was baptized as an infant(from what they tell me), but when I was 30, I accepted Christ and was baptized as an adult believer. Does that make me Anabaptist? My family and I spent 3 days in Holmes County, Ohio a few weeks ago, right in the heart of Amish country. I really enjoyed and gained a deeper respect for the Amish faith. Also, I learned more about the Mennonite faith since then. I am part of the Church of God (Anderson) movement whose roots, I have read, were also influence by Anabaptists. A person may claim to be liberal or conservative, but I believe we should want to align ourselves with Christ and his teachings. Maybe what your looking for is right in front of you!
 
Upvote 0

childofdust

Newbie
May 18, 2010
1,041
92
✟2,177.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Private
After searching around a bit and taking what I found into the context of what WiM was saying, here are my thoughts...

It seems that "mainline Protestantism" is a term going back 30, 40, or 50 years that was used to describe some specific Protestant denominations and Roman Catholics who thought of blurring the boundaries between themselves--step across the aisle so to speak--and embrace a kind of multi-traditional ecumenicism. This didn't work, however, because instead of churches becoming more "diverse" in terms of their traditions and boundary markers, they became more "restrictive" and "self-defined." Most Christians didn't want to give up or blurr the things that made them distinct and special, so their reaction was in the opposite direction, to leave those kind of churches and go places that better defined their particularities against others instead of, what seemed to them, giving up their important distinctions. Vatican II was the Catholic response in the opposite direction, pretty much destroying the possibility for ecumencism between a Catholic and a Protestant.

So this would seem to be something that WiM means when he refers to a "moderate" Anabaptist... An Anabaptist who is okay with giving up or blurring some of the boundary markers between themselves as Anabaptists and others in order to engage in a more cross-tradition ecumenicism. And when one looks at the early Anabaptists, one can indeed see that such a thing would be a radical departure. Early Anabaptists saw what distinguished them from other Christian traditions as not insignificant or not something that could be blurred (like maybe it's okay to sometimes use the sword for defense or maybe if you're Lutheran you can slaughter people if they're being really, really naughty), but rather, Anapbatists saw their distinctive qualities as definitive of the reborn, penitent, and obedient Christian who would be saved from the final day of YHWH's judgment and wrath.

I am certainly not "moderate" in that way. I have no desire to become ecumenical. I truly believe Anabaptism has got it right in a definitive way that the rest do not and, like the early Anabaptists, I see those who would differ from us in our distinctives to be headed down the path that leads to oblivion.

I would say that I am moderate in that my Anabaptism, although it takes the early Anabaptists as its basis and foundation, has expanded out from there in ways that early Anabaptism could not (not that it would not). For instance, few early Anabaptists were learned and scholarly. They did not have the time, resources, or safe havens that other Christians enjoyed to pursue an understanding of scripture. But their godless enemies did. The centers of intellectualism did not promote Anabaptism, but produced its sophisticated theological arguments and works against it. Anabaptists therefore naturally associated scholarly knowledge and learning with blindness and corruption. If Biblical truth could be known through learned study, then certainly the learned would not be writing false teaching and supporting the abolishment of what Anabaptists considered divine truth. For the early Anabaptists then, Biblical knowledge was something that came by realism and revelation. All they needed to do to know the truth was to open up the scriptures and read it (realism) and the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth (revelation). Menno Simon, for instance, writes in many places of the "plain" meaning of scripture. There is, for the early Anabaptists, nothing really to study or figure out because it's all plainly in view.

I have advanced beyond this limited view of scripture not because I am veering away from Anabaptism, but because the faults of early Anabaptistm's original perspective have now themselves become "plain." Scholarship, reason, intellectualism, and learning are not inherently against or blind from truth. Modern science only exists because people believed that a reasonable and intelligent Creator had given them their reason and intellect in order to understand real truth about the world and themselves in it. It just so happened that when the unlearned, early Anabaptists appeared on the scene, learning and intellectualism was turned against them and against divine truth.

The scriptures are written according to the perspectives and worldviews of its authors, which we do not share. To best understand scripture, therefore, means we must understand the ancient context out of which the scriptures came. We cannot simply read them from within to our culture and context and know what they are saying. What is plain to a 1st Century Palestinian Jew cannot be plain to a 16th Century Dutch gentile. Fortunately, the early Anabaptists had the Holy Spirit to help make up for their deficiencies, but that doesn't mean if, given the historical opportunity, the early Anabaptists shouldn't or wouldn't have tried to fix their deficiencies.

Or, again, I would say I'm moderate in that I support the full and equal participation of women in the church body--yes, even as pastors...or because I reject Trinitarianism and the Hypostatic Union. All that is not because I am leaning away from Anabaptism toward something else, but, again, because I have been able to reach a place that early Anabaptism could not (not that it would not).
 
Upvote 0
A

AForestOfStars

Guest
I haven't been "officially baptized" into a Mennonite "church", although I have been baptized in water and the Spirit. I do consider my beliefs to be very in line with Moderate Mennonite, although I am a bit more conservative (I try wearing more modest clothes, plainer things, a bit more frugal of a life, and I believe in the headcovering according to 1st Corinthians 11. After MUCH research, into the Greek, etc, on the latter passage of 1st Corinthians, I came to the conclusion that headcovering is still for today).

But like you I am not here to pick a fight. I do not consider myself as better than anyone, nor as "holier than thou" simply because I may be a bit more old-fashioned in appearance and living. :) I'm Moderate Mennonite but leaning more towards Conservative Mennonite. So in between ;)
 
Upvote 0