any changes?

[tturt]

Wondering if you as a believer are being used as a seer? (God just uses this as a major way of communicating with some). Have there been recent changes in what you're seeing?

 

[mourningdove~]

Wondering if you as a believer are being used as a seer? (God just uses this as a major way of communicating with some). Have there been recent changes in what you're seeing?

Very good question, though I don't know that there's enough traffic here in this forum to get many responses.
I hope that you will get some.


We are watching the news, following world events, and it just naturally appears to me (and so many others, it seems), that we may be nearing the tribulation period. There are many churches in my U.S. location, but when I research their sermons online, I do not find sermons or topics discussing what is currently happening in the U.S./world ... except occasionally at a Baptist church, where the rapture is discussed. But that particular church is very cessationist. We do have AOG churches in the area, but none of them seem to be operating in the gifts any longer, at least not openly in their services.

It seems to me that some cessationist churches ... locally and on tv/online ... are pretty in tune with prophetic end times prophecy and are working now to prepare believers for things anticipated to come, but what about the charismatic/Spirit-filled churches? What are Christians who move in the spiritual gifts seeing?

(... I'd like to hear from them, too.)

 

[Aaron112]

There is no limit to the reading of books/ watching videos/ forums.

It is not only wearisome, and mostly leading on the way to destruction ,
but
few ever get on the one truth.

 

[ARBITER01]

1Sa 9:9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to inquire of God, thus he said, Come and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)

 

[mourningdove~]

1Sa 9:9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to inquire of God, thus he said, Come and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)

So you are saying it is incorrect to use the word seer?

Not that it matters much to me, but there are folks that claim to be one (seer).

 

[ARBITER01]

So you are saying it is incorrect to use the word seer?

Not that it matters much to me, but there are folks that claim to be one (seer).

Yea,.....

Prophets normally have the revelation gifts operating strongly in their lives, hence why they were called seers, because they were seeing bits and pieces of the future from GOD, through dreams, visions, and such.

It's not a separate sort of ministry/office with GOD though.

 

[Richard T]

In the New Testament everyone is a "seer" to an extent.
John 16:13 (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Of course some are more gifted with word of wisdom and faith for words of all kinds of different events. None however reach the level of Samuel or any OT prophet. Why? Because prophecies in the church age are subject to the other prophets, and they can be wrong. In the OT if they were wrong they were stoned. Also the reach of Samuel was nationwide. Even with youtube it is rare that a single prophecy given exceeds 1 million views. (most are not near that) So God's power rests on more people, plus we do have a complete bible and picture this side of the resurrection.

It still is a great question though, what are people hearing from God? I read Elijah's list which is a fair place to look for charismatic prophecies. (many there may have varying end times beliefs) lately I see they list "Breaker" "New thing" "Fast changes" but nothing super specific of what I have been sampling. One did speak to me a few months back that there was going to be a marriage revival. God's way for marriage is going to be coming back to many.

I do have thoughts of better church services = I'm expecting churches to be more Spirit led with power diffused to all seeking believers. Pastors will yield the pulpit more, believers will be more engaged and better discernment will return.

1 Corinthians 14:26 (KJV)
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

This was confirmed twice to me. First, about three years ago, I heard an older Hagin tape where he talked about the Holy Spirit having a purpose in every church service and leaders have to follow what the Holy Spirit is asking. Yes, there can be psalms sung spontaneously. Yes, there needs to be time for prophecy and AN EXPECTATION that any believer may be called upon by the Lord to give something. The second confirmation comes from Troy Black who actually had God talking to him about Hagin.

Black talks mostly about the word of faith stuff but part of that is a Pentecostal ability to be spontaneous. I do not know Troy Black hradly at all but he seems reasonable from what I have listened to. Currently, we are seeing some spontaneous stuff outside the church, in people being compelled by the Spirit to be baptized right on the spot. Salvations, healings, gifts of all kinds will be operating from many, not a few both in and outside the church. I think this too is going to occur more and more in all kinds of churches not just charismatic ones.

Anyway, hope others share what the Lord has given them directly or through others.

 

[ARBITER01]

Of course some are more gifted with word of wisdom and faith for words of all kinds of different events. None however reach the level of Samuel or any OT prophet. Why? Because prophecies in the church age are subject to the other prophets, and they can be wrong.

Has GOD changed?

Does GOD operate the office of a prophet different now than He did in the OT?

The answer to both of these questions is no. The office is very rare nowadays, hence why you see so many people messing up,..... they are not the real thing.

And,.... it is quite easy to mix up prophesiers and prophets. Prophesying (whether the gift of prophesying or tongues with interpretation in the corporate setting) is to be judged in front of people, not prophets. Prophets don't answer to the body of Christ, they answer to GOD. They always have.

Again,.... the problem in the body of Christ is not prophets, it's people acting like prophets who are not the real thing. The office is rare because people can't wait on GOD and pay the price.

If we had an actual prophet in the body of Christ operating in the power of GOD,.... we would know it. There would be no question about it.

 

[tturt]

You'll need to start another thread to discuss changes in prophets now or not from the OT.

Since Jesus said He was The Way (John 14:6), one of first titles referring to believers was followers of The Way. Not a title typically used today and of course doesn't mean there aren't any. In reference to I Sam 9:9 The tterm prophet is primarily used now and doesn't mean there aren't any seers. Besides if someone says they want to go to a prophet for a word today, they are greatly criticized But I Sam 9:9 says "Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: ..."

Isa 30:10 says seers, See and prophets, prophesy. Just a different primary way of communicating. God uses/used seers to speak His Word "the Lord spake unto Gad, David's seer, saying, 10 Go and tell David, saying, Thus saith the Lord, I offer thee three things: choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee." ( I Chron 21:9-10).

 

[ARBITER01]

Since Jesus said He was The Way (John 14:6), one of first titles referring to believers was followers of The Way. Not a title typically used today and of course doesn't mean there aren't any. In reference to I Sam 9:9 The tterm prophet is primarily used now and doesn't mean there aren't any seers.

Is the Office/Ministry of Seer listed in 1 Corinthians?

 

[tturt]

And if I Cor 12 used the term seers, it would include prophets.

God uses different ways of communicating. If God eliminated seeing as a way of communicating, there wouldn't any Godly supernatural situations stated in the New Testament such as:
- 'And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. ..." (Acts 9:10)
- John wrote Rev including "And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the - horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone....." (Rev 9:17).
- Zacharias - "And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense." Luk 1

Anyway,, back to the actual topic of the OP. Have there been recent changes in what you're seeing?

 

[ARBITER01]

And if I Cor 12 used the term seers, it would include prophets.

But it doesn't does it??

You seem to have absorbed some wrong unbiblical information from someone. I suggest you learn to discipline yourself to what scripture actually says instead of what people say.

 

[Richard T]

Has GOD changed?

Does GOD operate the office of a prophet different now than He did in the OT?

The answer to both of these questions is no. The office is very rare nowadays, hence why you see so many people messing up,..... they are not the real thing.

And,.... it is quite easy to mix up prophesiers and prophets. Prophesying (whether the gift of prophesying or tongues with interpretation in the corporate setting) is to be judged in front of people, not prophets. Prophets don't answer to the body of Christ, they answer to GOD. They always have.

Again,.... the problem in the body of Christ is not prophets, it's people acting like prophets who are not the real thing. The office is rare because people can't wait on GOD and pay the price.

If we had an actual prophet in the body of Christ operating in the power of GOD,.... we would know it. There would be no question about it.

God does not change but man's relationship with him has changed. Im the OT the Holy came upon a man. In the NT it is within. In the OT the focus was Israel, in the NT the focus is the church.

Prophecy and words are pretty common but most are at the church or individual level. There are some words that are at the highest levels but you are right that there is so much false prophecy and self proclaimed "prophet" status that most believers don't rely on words. Perhaps that is a good thing since they have the Holy Spirit within and God can show them all the direction they need.

 

[bèlla]

Is the Office/Ministry of Seer listed in 1 Corinthians?

I don't think the term is appropriate for modern use given its association with clairvoyance. Webster's 1828 definition includes a prophet but the current one adds divination. I would opt for a different expression that conveyed the same without ambiguity. It isn't a word the majority use within Christian circles.

~bella

 

[ARBITER01]

I don't think the term is appropriate for modern use given its association with clairvoyance. Webster's 1828 definition includes a prophet but the current one adds divination. I would opt for a different expression that conveyed the same without ambiguity. It isn't a word the majority use within Christian circles.

~bella

I agree.

According to 1 Samuel 9:9, a Seer was nothing more than a prophet in the OT, so I don't know why people would use the word Seer for the office when the NT doesn't use it.

To me, it's just more of this runaway teaching in Christianity that is never discerned like it should be.

 

[ARBITER01]

God does not change but man's relationship with him has changed. Im the OT the Holy came upon a man. In the NT it is within. In the OT the focus was Israel, in the NT the focus is the church.

Man's relationship with GOD does not change the office or the anointing a person might receive from Him.

If GOD wants to raise up a prophet to write scripture, He can. If GOD wants to give out an anointing like Sampson had, He can, it just depends on what He wants to do and how much a person is willing to pay the price for it.

Man has become weak, not GOD.

 

[Richard T]

I don't think the term is appropriate for modern use given its association with clairvoyance. Webster's 1828 definition includes a prophet but the current one adds divination. I would opt for a different expression that conveyed the same without ambiguity. It isn't a word the majority use within Christian circles.

~bella

I agree seers is a more recent concept used by certain teacher's of prophets. There is no office of a seer, and while the word of wisdom is said to provide insight into the future, it certainly as the Holy Spirit wills.

Man's relationship with GOD does not change the office or the anointing a person might receive from Him.

If GOD wants to raise up a prophet to write scripture, He can. If GOD wants to give out an anointing like Sampson had, He can, it just depends on what He wants to do and how much a person is willing to pay the price for it.

Man has become weak, not GOD.

The cross changed the relationship. Sure there were offices and administrations in the OT, but they are somewhat different now. You are right God is the same though, and never weak. man became weak through Adam, some believers are weak, that is the same no matter the covenant.

Ephesians 4:8-12 (KJV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[ARBITER01]

The cross changed the relationship. Sure there were offices and administrations in the OT, but they are somewhat different now.

I'm sorry, but I'm not about to agree with any of that. There are quite a few people out there who do say such things, but I've always had a red flag raise up inside from The Holy Spirit.

 

[bèlla]

I agree seers is a more recent concept used by certain teacher's of prophets. There is no office of a seer, and while the word of wisdom is said to provide insight into the future, it certainly as the Holy Spirit wills.

I saw it on a book a few years ago and didn't understand it. I knew what they meant but it felt like a fancy way of saying something else which @ARBITER01 hinted at.

Beyond the above there's the realities of revealing what the Lord imparts. Is it for us alone or others? All ministry isn't overt and that isn't discussed enough.

~bella

 

[mourningdove~]

You'll need to start another thread to discuss changes in prophets now or not from the OT.

Since Jesus said He was The Way (John 14:6), one of first titles referring to believers was followers of The Way. Not a title typically used today and of course doesn't mean there aren't any. In reference to I Sam 9:9 The tterm prophet is primarily used now and doesn't mean there aren't any seers. Besides if someone says they want to go to a prophet for a word today, they are greatly criticized But I Sam 9:9 says "Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: ..."

Isa 30:10 says seers, See and prophets, prophesy. Just a different primary way of communicating. God uses/used seers to speak His Word "the Lord spake unto Gad, David's seer, saying, 10 Go and tell David, saying, Thus saith the Lord, I offer thee three things: choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee." ( I Chron 21:9-10).

I'm sorry I asked the question in this, your thread, about the use of the word seer.
I so didn't mean to take the thread off topic by doing so.
(Was just seeking clarification of the verse that Arbiter had posted.)
But I know you didn't mean for this to turn into a teaching thread, about prophets and seers.
My apologies, sister.