Antiochian, Holy Trinity, etc. - What's the Difference?

[crazylikeafox]

Trying to decide which of the three Orthodox churches in my area to visit first (I'll probably end up visiting all of them eventually), but just curious what the full names mean, and does it indicate a difference of any kind?

The churches in my area are:

Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox
St. Nicholas Orthodox
St. John Chrysostom Antiochian

 

[Knee V]

Trying to decide which of the three Orthodox churches in my area to visit first (I'll probably end up visiting all of them eventually), but just curious what the full names mean, and does it indicate a difference of any kind?

The churches in my area are:

Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox
St. Nicholas Orthodox
St. John Chrysostom Antiochian

In the lands that are more historically Orthodox, all the bishops gather in what is called a "synod". Bishops that are in an area where they are more or less culturally linked (e.g., the bishops in Russia) will be in one synod. Here in North America (as well as in Western Europe, Australia, etc), things aren't quite that cut and dry. Instead, the different synods will have bishops here, and those bishops are part of those synods. So Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church has a bishop who is part of a synod that originates in Greece. St John Chrysostom Antiochian Church has a bishop who is part of a synod that originates in the Middle East (Antioch).

There will be a little difference in "flavor" (the style of chanting will be different), but the Liturgy itself is the same.

As far as which one to attend first, that's really difficult to say. If you're looking to visit all three, my opinion is to draw from a hat and go to that one first, then visit the next two the following weeks.

 

[ArmyMatt]

they would all be good, but I would say check out the Antiochian one or especially if St Nicholas is in the OCA (Orthodox Church in America), because the OCA and the Antiochians are usually the most American.

but they all would prolly be good, so I'd say visit all three and talk to the priest afterwards.

 

[Etsi]

If you are more typical American, you may like the OCA ones. If you are more "out of the box" American culturally (aka TCK or other such) then you may appreciate the Greek one more. I'm a TCK and thus prefer the Greek Church.

 

[musicluvr83]

I'd check out all three of them for sure and definitely talk to the priests at each parish. Try to stay after the service for any fellowship that may be occurring too so you can meet the parishioners.

Oh...for the sake of "comprehension" (for lack of a better word), I'd say go to the Antiochian or OCA churches first before the Greek church. I have Greek background and can say from personal experience that Greek churches, though the services often are in English, usually have at least a small part in Greek. So, while beautiful, you won't be able to understand everything that's going on in the service (unless you know Greek of course ).

 

[Etsi]

I'd check out all three of them for sure and definitely talk to the priests at each parish. Try to stay after the service for any fellowship that may be occurring too so you can meet the parishioners.

Oh...for the sake of "comprehension" (for lack of a better word), I'd say go to the Antiochian or OCA churches first before the Greek church. I have Greek background and can say from personal experience that Greek churches, though the services often are in English, usually have at least a small part in Greek. So, while beautiful, you won't be able to understand everything that's going on in the service (unless you know Greek of course ).

Or follow along in the Liturgy book Which is what we do. We've come to memorize certain Greek responses and understand what they mean...language immersion My kids are taking Greek classes also and have plenty of older people that they can get to practice with. Definitely a plus side.

 

[musicluvr83]

Or follow along in the Liturgy book

Which is what we do. We've come to memorize certain Greek responses and understand what they mean...language immersion

My kids are taking Greek classes also and have plenty of older people that they can get to practice with.

Definitely a plus side.

Language can be a big barrier though. I spent a time "searching" and wound up in ROCOR for 2 years. I'm cradle Orthodox, know the services by heart and had taken Russian/Slavonic classes, but it was still tough trying to grasp everything.

So while I agree with you about following along (I actually took Greek classes too...my mom's side of the family is quiiiiite Greek, haha ) it can be hard...and harder for one who's inquiring about the Faith. See, my dad's a convert and he had trouble in the beginning. Following along in the Liturgy book when you don't have much of an idea of how the services flow 'cause you're still learning/inquiring can be rather hard/troublesome 'cause you're trying to learn & understand the service/theology/etc while also trying to grasp the meaning of the words. You also wind up missing parts of what's going on in the service 'cause you're trying to find where you are in the book. Which of course means you don't get as much out of the service. Hence why I kinda think it best, unless one knows Greek (or Russian if it's a Russian parish), to go to an English speaking parish (if it's available - which it is for crazylikeafox) until one has a better understanding of the Liturgical cycle.

 

[Etsi]

musiclvr83, I'm a convert with no Greek language background. My kids are lightyears ahead of me merely because of their youth. I really think it depends on the person and their background though That's why I stated what I did at first about "typical American" vs "non-typical American". Some individuals, language may be a larger barrier. For others, there are bigger issues at play.

For me, there are greater issues than language. I'm more fearful of a church that is made up of and full of converts than one that has cultural stability that is outside of the typical American paradigm. Also, as a TCK it's much easier to be an outsider then it's obvious one is an outsider than to be an outsider that everyone assumes should "fit" and wonders why you don't.



I also have to admit that I tire of the "too much Greek" vs "too much English" arguments. I don't ever hear Cherokee in church. To me, we are worshipping and that is a spiritual thing, not a lingual thing. But again, I've been around many cultures and languages where I was the one person that could not understand what was being said. Maybe I'm immune to the difference.

 

[musicluvr83]

Like you, I'm also immune. I've actually had little squabbles with family at times due to my immunity and not letting language bother me (a Greek going to ROCOR?!...need I say more, lol ). My dad on the other hand had a tough time with language...it didn't turn him away, but not having services in English was very hard for him. Hence why I figured crazylikeafox should know that "ethnic" parishes (i.e. Greek, Russian, etc) churches tend to use their language along with English just so she's not surprised when she walks into the Church and she might not hear English. To some peeps like you or I it may not matter, but to others like my Dad it may.

I totally hear you about a Church full of only converts; I've seen what can happen. But I've also seen what can happen in a church full of just cradle Orthodox (hence my aforementioned "searching" & winding up in ROCOR for 2 years...but the parish I was attending went into schism...so I went to the OCA - been there ever since). Guess my point here is that there's good/bad in both scenarios - discretion is just needed. Oh how I wish peeps would drop ethnic differences and blend all the beautiful traditions together. Many churches do already but it'd be awesome if all did! All in God's time!

 

[Etsi]

Like you, I'm also immune. I've actually had little squabbles with family at times due to my immunity and not letting language bother me (a Greek going to ROCOR?!...need I say more, lol ). My dad on the other hand had a tough time with language...it didn't turn him away, but not having services in English was very hard for him. Hence why I figured crazylikeafox should know that "ethnic" parishes (i.e. Greek, Russian, etc) churches tend to use their language along with English just so she's not surprised when she walks into the Church and she might not hear English. To some peeps like you or I it may not matter, but to others like my Dad it may.

I totally hear you about a Church full of only converts; I've seen what can happen. But I've also seen what can happen in a church full of just cradle Orthodox (hence my aforementioned "searching" & winding up in ROCOR for 2 years...but the parish I was attending went into schism...so I went to the OCA - been there ever since). Guess my point here is that there's good/bad in both scenarios - discretion is just needed. Oh how I wish peeps would drop ethnic differences and blend all the beautiful traditions together. Many churches do already but it'd be awesome if all did! All in God's time!

Gotcha, I think we're on the same page in many areas Since not knowing the OP's personal background, that is why I think they should understand the differences, both positive and negative (I'm sure our conversation helps clarify these things LOL!)

 

[musicluvr83]

Yes, indeed!

 

[Ranae of Cedar]

Trying to decide which of the three Orthodox churches in my area to visit first (I'll probably end up visiting all of them eventually), but just curious what the full names mean, and does it indicate a difference of any kind?

The churches in my area are:

Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox
St. Nicholas Orthodox
St. John Chrysostom Antiochian

Wow crazylikeafox, I thought you were from my area..LOL, at first glance I thought I had the same 3 churches in my area to chose from only I am in the state north of you! I have Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox, St. Nicholas Antiochian, and St John Chrysostom Russian Orthodox.

I plan on looking into each of them over time and tonight I am going to Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox my first visit! I am so excited.

 

[Knee V]

Wow crazylikeafox, I thought you were from my area..LOL, at first glance I thought I had the same 3 churches in my area to chose from only I am in the state north of you! I have Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox, St. Nicholas Antiochian, and St John Chrysostom Russian Orthodox.

I plan on looking into each of them over time and tonight I am going to Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox my first visit! I am so excited.

If you would, please indulge us and let us know how it goes.

 

[Ranae of Cedar]

If you would, please indulge us and let us know how it goes.

ok will do.. I will start my own post on this.

Ranae

 

[SpiritlMuse]

You have all gave me food for thought here. I will seek out an English speaking church when I go, until I get an idea as how things work.

 

[The Virginian]

Trying to decide which of the three Orthodox churches in my area to visit first (I'll probably end up visiting all of them eventually), but just curious what the full names mean, and does it indicate a difference of any kind?

The churches in my area are:

Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox
St. Nicholas Orthodox
St. John Chrysostom Antiochian

I've read some of the answers to your post, but not all. So forgiv me if what I say here is a duplication.

As my former priest said about the practice of picking a 'name saint': "The saint chooses you." The names of the various parishes are names of someone venerated as a "saint" by a particular jurisdiction (some saints are recognized by more than one jurisdiction), or the name of a biblical person or event (for example;the name of my first parish was Holy Transfiguration).

In the beginning there were five (5) principle Sees, or seats of authority for the Church. If in another country a priest from one of those Sees established a parish, they would belong to that See/jurisdiction, which usually fell along ethnic lines. This is why there's a jurisdiction/SEE for Serbs, Greeks, Antiochians, Russians,etc,.

The "patriarch" or the leader of a see, is usually elevated from the ranks of the archbishops, and is more a title as there is no rank/liturgical order, higher than an archbishop. Other differences will result from the colors used in the liturgical year, the presence of pews, while the Liturgy itself stays the same regardless of the ethnicity of the parish.

I hope this helps you.


the sinful and unworthy servant