Anti intellectualism directed against science.

[SelfSim]

But humans, whether science-oriented or not, do not always exhibit objectivity.

Of course! That just means that when objectivity is not evident, that person is not thinking scientifically .. even if they are professional scientists.
This seems to be exploited by anti-intellectuals as a weakness exhibited by scientists, but all that is evident when it happens, is an acknowlegment of reality, (which brings the conversation back to scientific objectivity for those who understand the concept).

 

[Albion]

Of course! That just means that when objectivity is not evident, that person is not thinking scientifically .. even if they are professional scientists.
This seems to be exploited by anti-intellectuals....

Wait a minute! You don't see anything contradictory in what you've just written there?

 

[durangodawood]

I find scientists to be intellectually conservative on average. They are slow to change their thinking on a professional topic and require a lot of persuading. This is a good trait, on balance, I think.

 

[timothyu]

Of the Australian climate scientists subjected to death threats, her crime was to suggest we can reduce our carbon footprint by planting trees.

Perhaps she had neglected to say support the economy when planting one. Making a profit has become a major part of saving the world.

 

[sjastro]

Perhaps she had neglected to say support the economy when planting one. Making a profit has become a major part of saving the world.

There is absolutely no justification for this type of behaviour.
As well as death threats female climate scientists are threatened with rape.

All researchers face the risk of being criticized when speaking publicly about their findings. But women in the field describe being attacked based on their gender. They’ve endured insults, sexual taunts and degrading comments about their professional acumen. Most of their harassers use social media, email and the phone for their attacks. But there’s a fear that it could become physical. Threats of death, rape and other forms of violence have left a number of researchers feeling concerned for their safety. They worry about opening envelopes with handwritten addresses and answering phone calls from unfamiliar numbers. Anonymous emails that try to entice a response cause agitation.

“We get this additional layer of hate mail, and people, I think, find it easier to put us down because we are women, or feel like they have more right in telling us what is right or wrong despite our expertise, which is always frustrating,” said Andrea Dutton, a geologist at the University of Florida and an expert on sea-level rise.

It shows the true motivation of these perpetrators as being cowardly misogynistic low life rather than caring for the economy or issues about profit taking.

 

[sjastro]

Why is expressing an opinion which has no facts backing it, so important?

Worse still, is expressing it, knowing it has no facts backing it!?

Undermining the system of looking for the facts then becomes the weapon of choice.

Forum rules prevent me from naming names but we are both aware of one particular individual who excels at anti rationalism by denying the existence of the facts when presented.
One could be tempted to ask him why?

The Tbolts site is a goldmine for this type of behaviour which also falls back on scientist bashing as a default setting.
It shows the non too subtle connection between anti-rationalism and anti-intellectualism.

 

[SelfSim]

Wait a minute! You don't see anything contradictory in what you've just written there?

No ..
Please elaborate(?)

 

[SelfSim]

.. It shows the non too subtle connection between anti-rationalism and anti-intellectualism.

Alice Roberts/Andrew Copson (of Humanists_UK) recently published their 'The Little Book of Humansim'. Its basically a book of quotes about wisdom, really.

So out of trying to inject some more pro-active thinking which (I think) captures what I think Intellectualism (and Rationalism) are aiming at, I'll attach a screen capture from one of the pages.

I guess this is what anti-Intellectualism and anti-Rationalism oppose .. (Goodness knows why though?)

 

[sjastro]

Science illiteracy and anti-intellectualism go hand in hand.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson gives an impassioned view on the subject.

 

[SelfSim]

Science illiteracy and anti-intellectualism go hand in hand.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson gives an impassioned view on the subject.

I'm not a big fan of deGrasse Tyson, although I'll admit his 'style' resonates with many in the US.

2:43 mark:
'This is science! Its not something to toy with!
Its not something to say I choose not to believe E=mc^2!
You don't have that option!'

But there is another option, Neil:
'It doesn't matter what you or I believe!
It doesn't change the science!'

 

[sjastro]

I'm not a big fan of deGrasse Tyson, although I'll admit his 'style' resonates with many in the US.

2:43 mark:
'This is science! Its not something to toy with!
Its not something to say I choose not to believe E=mc^2!
You don't have that option!'

But there is another option, Neil:
'It doesn't matter what you or I believe!
It doesn't change the science!'

If we are going to be critical about Neil deGrasse Tyson, the word truth comes up frequently.
For example Big Bang cosmology while being a branch of physics is also taught in applied mathematics with the emphasis on it being a model.

The goal is to learn HOW it all works, rather than the why........using observations of the constituents of the Universe, such as atoms, stars, galaxies, and ultimately life.
Science produces models that describe the universe, not “the truth”!
Modern cosmology now interfaces closely with high energy physics.
Various holy grails of particle physics, such as grand unification, supersymmetry, etc are relevant. (Even string theory....).

(I like the backhander given to string theory).

Maybe physicists have a different perspective particularly when observational and experimental evidence supports a model in which case the term truth has greater relevance.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The astrophysicist Brian Koberlein was part of a TEDx talk on science education brought up in this thread.

In a conversation with Brian not only is how science taught an issue but science itself is under attack motivated by anti-intellectualism.

It's a sad state of affairs when climate scientists are subjected to death threats or a scientist is threatened by stating the Earth is round.

The problem with that way of teaching is that it's way more difficult than giving lectures. What they missed in that video is that we also need the curriculum to develop at least minimal teaching skills of that kind at all levels, not just for vocational teachers, but also for science specialists at college and university level, and beyond.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Scientists are 100% guilty of ridiculing people who question them.
They do this to the point of receiving threats from people they have ridiculed.

'Whataboutism' isn't an argument. It's a common human failing to ridicule what seems ridiculous, but it doesn't justify threats of violence.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Do you consider social scientists real scientists?

Yes, if they're doing 'real' science, i.e. not pseudoscience; the same applies to all fields of science.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Sorta true, but with time we should be able to understand the important stuff. If so we need not be too concerned about what we don't know.

It's important that we know enough to understand what is important and what isn't.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Alice Roberts/Andrew Copson (of Humanists_UK) recently published their 'The Little Book of Humansim'. Its basically a book of quotes about wisdom, really.

So out of trying to inject some more pro-active thinking which (I think) captures what I think Intellectualism (and Rationalism) are aiming at, I'll attach a screen capture from one of the pages.

I guess this is what anti-Intellectualism and anti-Rationalism oppose .. (Goodness knows why though?)

View attachment 295201

I would add, 'To celebrate difference'.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I can't help feel that the age-old quest of spending one's time on Earth attempting to accumulate wisdom, has simply fallen by the wayside(?)

I thought the age old quest was just "filling your belly".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's important that we know enough to understand what is important and what isn't.

We know what is important, but sadly our nature prevents us from achieving it.

Freedom from fear.
Freedom from want.

It then becomes very important that we understand (and manage) our nature.

 

[sjastro]

The problem with that way of teaching is that it's way more difficult than giving lectures. What they missed in that video is that we also need the curriculum to develop at least minimal teaching skills of that kind at all levels, not just for vocational teachers, but also for science specialists at college and university level, and beyond.

Are teachers taught to make subjects interesting or this an innate ability that varies from teacher to teacher?
I thought the video was more based on improvisation rather than a particular skill that can be taught.
Pupils also react differently, I know of one particular female from my undergraduate days who always excelled at physical chemistry because she found her lecturer "devastatingly sexy".

If I had Amy Mainzer as a lecturer, I think I'd be more distracted than focused.

​

Amy Mainzer is an American astronomer, specializing in astrophysical instrumentation and infrared astronomy. She holds a Bachelors degree with honors in Phyisics, and Masters and Ph.D degrees in Astronomy. Dr. Mainzer is a research scientist working on different projects at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, including the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE), the Near Earth Object Camera (NEOCam), and NEOWISE mission to study asteroids and comets using the reactivated WISE satellite. She previously worked for Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Center on the Spitzer Space Telescope.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Are teachers taught to make subjects interesting or this an innate ability that varies from teacher to teacher?
I thought the video was more based on improvisation rather than a particular skill that can be taught.

I think that great teachers are not taught to be great, but that people who teach can be taught to be better educators by adopting a more inclusive and interactive style, as in that video.