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Anti intellectualism directed against science.

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by sjastro, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. sjastro

    sjastro Newbie

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    I can't pass over the sheer irony of this statement.
    This thread is supposed to focus on the victims of anti-intellectualism not provide a platform for mouthing off anti-intellectual nonsense.
     
  2. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster Well-Known Member

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    I pity your editor.
     
  3. SelfSim

    SelfSim A non "-ist"

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    No .. its a testable hypothesis which is based on related empirically demonstrable physical principles ... The subject of an hypothesis is not necessarily objectively real until it gets tested (and provides consistently verifying evidence).

    We do .. (that underlined bit is just incorrect) ... (see my references instead of just repeating your claim).
    ETA: On Abiogenesis: check this one out: Spontaneous formation of autocatalytic sets with self-replicating inorganic metal oxide clusters:
    The work is incomplete .. no-one is looking for 'conveyor belts'.

    Those involved in Abiogenesis/Evolution research are aware of the limitations of the method they work with. There have been calls for 'new physics' to cater for the prediction difficulty arising from the models.
    Eg: Stuart Kauffman says:
    'Non-derivability' doesn't rule out that there will be 'a something' which can ultimately be tested (or is testable), someplace, sometime, in a very big universe. So Abiogenesis is still a testable hypothesis.

    Perhaps .. maybe he's just speaking to others who understand the deeper contexts behind that statement .. and you just don't(?)

    Modern-day cells are comprised of modern-day molecules whose sub units are comprised of chemicals which have been demonstrated as existing 3.5 billion years ago on Earth .. (and extrapolated as existing back to even earlier times in the universe's history).
    ..
    Meh .. maybe (like me) they're just not interested .. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Go ask an Atheist .. (I can only guess what they may say).
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  4. Estrid

    Estrid Well-Known Member

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    Ha. They make money on self published books, and have no
    reason to actually read what they are printing.
     
  5. Estrid

    Estrid Well-Known Member

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    Atheists threatened by science.
    How droll.
     
  6. SelfSim

    SelfSim A non "-ist"

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    Clarification/elaboration would be appreciated there ..

    ETA: Don't worry 'bout it if you were just commenting on MM's closing remark.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Then you must have written some peer reviewed papers on why this is false. Would you care to link any?

    When you start to use conspiracy theories to defend your beliefs it casts doubts on all of your claims.
     
  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    What "gaping hole in facts" do you think exist? Do you realize that to date there is only scientific evidence for abiogenesis and creationists cannot seem to find any evidence to the contrary. You may not understand this since most creationists do not understand the concept of evidence nor will they let themselves learn.

    Once again there is strong evidence for this. There is no evidence to the contrary.

    Sorry, no one has said that. No one has said that everything is explained by science. But to date the only answers have come from science. When you can find some reliable evidence for your beliefs then perhaps you can have your say.

    You would have to prove that Dawkins made the only one claim that was excessive. I doubt if he said that. Until you can support your case Dawkins' credibility trumps yours.
     
  9. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think we have aired this enough.

    I can only repeat: abiogenesis is mostly a void of ideas. Not mostly defined with gaps. It becomes a real hypothesis to me when an intermediate cell is postulated.

    I didn’t mean literal conveyor belt!

    I mean the simplest known cell is so big and complex , that if abiogenesis is real, there must be many intermediates along the pathway to it. And if there is sufficient probability/ energy gap etc of those stages occuring, there should be visible many of the intermediate stages of lower forms of cell happening as we speak. There are not. Not a one. That is not explained either. It is as I say a void. Not even one intermediate functioning cell is postulated let alone observed.

    Im not opposed to the possibility, but there’s no evidence. Just speculation.

     
  10. SelfSim

    SelfSim A non "-ist"

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    Well repeat away (no one is listening) .. Meanwhile Abiogenesis research peels each layer away and breaks down every physical barrier encountered.

    What on earth are you talking about? Protocells have been proposed as feasibly forming in clay minerals, or as simple lipid vesicles. Recently the lipids in the membranes of bacteria and archaeal cells have been shown to be to able coexist in a single common ancestor, which lived in either salt or non salt water.
    Functional molecules have also been shown as feasibly passing through these primodial lipid membranes and viable primordial compartments have also been demonstrated as separating the contents/reactions. Protocell division is even simpler.

    And as I provided in the last link in my last post, autocatalytic sets, based on simple inorganic salts, can spontaneously emerge, which are then capable of collective self-replication, independently of modern-day biological molecules. These can transit protocell membranes and reside in the compartments awaiting replication and protocell division.

    Direct evidence of 3.5 billion year old primitive, 'fuelled acetoclastic methanogenesis and organic sulfides such as methanethiol and (methylsulfanyl) methane, possibly having served as substrates for fermenting methanogenic bacteria', have been discovered and measured around stomatolite formations on the coastline of Western Australia.

    Its a real hypothesis and its steaming ahead .. better catch up with it, before it consumes your belief-based worldview on OOL!
    Well frankly this comes as surprise, given your unresponsiveness to any/all reports of objective laboratory test result progress placed before your evolved eyes!

    Huh? Abiogenesis refers to what was happening >3.8 billion years ago .. on Earth, y'know!?
     
  11. Estrid

    Estrid Well-Known Member

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    MMCR
     
  12. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    One person clearly is! :)
     
  13. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster Well-Known Member

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    Tell us something we didn't already know.
     
  14. Jesusfann777888

    Jesusfann777888 Member

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    Dude you lie about singularities without an origin that began that are fallaciously responsible for the existence of prebiotic conditions and then go on to lie about they constitute biological outcomes. 0 reality.thats called imagination not theory.
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    What? Why move the topic to the Big Bang. We were not discussing the beginning of the universe.

    Let's concentrate on one subject at a time. But I am so glad that you accept the fact of evolution.
     
  16. sjastro

    sjastro Newbie

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    Here is a more detailed version of gravitational wave theory which explains some of the concepts described.
     
  17. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In fairness I did. I pointed at the forensic evidence of so called Eucharistic miracles in which human heart cells appeared intermingled with bread,in Eucharistic context , so not a product of evolution.

    I could have cited many other phenomena that seem to stand forensic scrutiny. Not one of you looked at the evidence in as far as I can tell.
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Mike, it is your job to provide the evidence. Your claims, your burden of proof.
     
  19. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster Well-Known Member

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    And not one of them has anything to do with any of the threads you keep trying to inject them into. No one cares.
     
  20. stevevw

    stevevw inquisitive

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    This is happening across a range of issues like with gender ideology for example. Basically I think we have moved into or have been in a new mode of thinking (post modernism). Here’s is the definition of post modernism and this seems to fit what we are seeing in recent times.

    Postmodernism is generally defined by an attitude of skepticism, irony, or rejection toward what it describes as the grand narratives and ideologies associated with modernism, often criticizing Enlightenment rationality and focusing on the role of ideology in maintaining political or economic power. Postmodern thinkers frequently describe knowledge claims and value systems as contingent or socially-conditioned, framing them as products of political, historical, or cultural discourses and hierarchies. Common targets of postmodern criticism include universalist ideas of objective reality, morality, truth, human nature, reason, science, language, and social progress. Accordingly, postmodern thought is broadly characterized by tendencies to self-consciousness, self-referentiality, epistemological and moral relativism, pluralism, and irreverence.
    Postmodernism - Wikipedia

    For me what stands out in this definition is obviously the general skepticism towards just about everything including objective reality, human nature and science but it seems to be more about self-consciousness, self-referentiality. Self consciousness is a heightened awareness of self, a preoccupation with self ideas and reality and theres is only self truth rather than any real truth. Self-referentiality is about how the subject sees things rather than how reality is measured outside the subject objectively.

    As we have seen in modern times some people are placing more importance on how the individual or group sees things. Reality is slanted towards the subjective rather than the objective. Personal experience and emotions are regarded as the true measure of what is happening. That is why some become outraged about certain issues or when confronted with objective reality. They disregard the science and replace it with subjective ideologies. I think this is why we see so much fake news.

    It can be difficult to counter this as it appeals to personal emotion and rights which are hard to dispute with facts. Reason and facts are seen as scare mongering and personal attacks. Science is made out to be one possible perspective that is not necessarily true and in fact oppressive. But as Shapiro says facts don't have feelings.

    Politically the left are more slanted towards disregarding the science and often forcus more on personal rights and ideologies regardless of the facts which seems like a paradox as you would think the right would be denying the science based on religious beliefs. But leftis ideologies that are against any talk of scientific facts about genetics and intelligence or gender differences a taboo. It can ever get to the point of violence to stop the truth and scientific facts from coming out. People have been sacked and threatened just for even mentioning a taboo topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
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