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Hi,
I'm an atheist and a genetic/microbiological scientist and because this is a Christian forum I've opened this thread so anyone who wishes to know more about Evolution or my beliefs or why I hold them can ask me questions accordingly.
I would however like a respectful debate, but feel free to counteract anything I say if you disagree. I will try my hardest to remain respectful. Thanks
OK people, ask away.
Scientists present facts, data and evidence in charts and graphs which allow clear representation and easier interpretation. A genetic tree allows a person to understand where a clear divergence in speciation occured. Scientists aren't about convincing anyone, we're not a "church" or a "political party". We are about finding out the truth about why things happen. About explaining, the unexplained.I believe scientists have come up with many drawings to keep their doctrines straight; yes.
Drawings, pictures -- anything to convince us commoners.
Haeckel was notorious for it.
I'm sorry I do not know the exact reason why, you would have to consult a neuroscientist or someone who specilises. However I can presume, that apes which genetically had larger brains were better suited to survive, and as a result these apes lived on to produce offspring with larger brains and this process continued for millions of years. However I am not entirely sure sorry.What is the genetic basis for the three-fold expansion of the human brain from that of apes? Source material would be helpful, thanks.
On a side note, perhaps you could answer a question that has bothered me for some time. Where are the chimpanzee ancestors in the fossil record?
I don't believe there is a single line to join these dots either.Going backwards, let the dots represent:
I'm not going to believe that there is a line connecting all these dots.
- Homo sapiens sapiens
- Homo sapiens idaltu
- Homo rudolfensis
- Homo rhodesiensis
- Homo neanderthalensis
- Homo hiedelbergensis
- Homo habilis
- Homo georgicus
- Homo gautengensis
- Homo floresiensis
- Homo ergaster
- Homo erectus
- Homo cepranensis
- Homo antecessor
Not asking for much then!What is the genetic basis for the three-fold expansion of the human brain from that of apes? Source material would be helpful, thanks.
There are very few, if any, chimpanzee fossils discovered to date.On a side note, perhaps you could answer a question that has bothered me for some time. Where are the chimpanzee ancestors in the fossil record?
Going backwards, let the dots represent:
I'm not going to believe that there is a line connecting all these dots.
- Homo sapiens sapiens
- Homo sapiens idaltu
- Homo rudolfensis
- Homo rhodesiensis
- Homo neanderthalensis
- Homo hiedelbergensis
- Homo habilis
- Homo georgicus
- Homo gautengensis
- Homo floresiensis
- Homo ergaster
- Homo erectus
- Homo cepranensis
- Homo antecessor
No -- and I'll use Ken Hovind's point to explain why.If we showed you 5,000 different dots, would you be willing to connect them then?
No -- and I'll use Ken Hovind's point to explain why.
You can't prove that any one of these 5,000 unconnected dots had a child.
Bologna -- DNA can prove Joe is Bob's son, thus proving Bob had a son.Science doesn't have 'proof'.
Bologna -- DNA can prove Joe is Bob's son, thus proving Bob had a son.
Then I take it adding 3 to 3 to get 6 is an example of arithmetical use of math?Science doesn't have 'proof'. Proof is for math and alcohol only.
Bologna -- DNA can prove Joe is Bob's son, thus proving Bob had a son.
That is not an example of science. That is an example of technological use of science.
That is not an example of science. That is an example of technological use of science.
Not understanding what science is (an inductive logic system) as opposed to say mathematics (a deductive logic system) is not exactly unusual, so you can feel relaxed to be in a group with so many others. Doesn't help this thread any but what the heck.Then I take it adding 3 to 3 to get 6 is an example of arithmetical use of math?
I'm sorry I do not know the exact reason why, you would have to consult a neuroscientist or someone who specilises. However I can presume, that apes which genetically had larger brains were better suited to survive, and as a result these apes lived on to produce offspring with larger brains and this process continued for millions of years. However I am not entirely sure sorry.
The chimpanzee ancestors and the human ancestors will be at some point around 4-6 million years ago, the same species. This is because they diverged into 2 different genera, Homo and Pan. This is often what people call the missing link. There are no fossil records to date, as fossils are extremely hard to find due to natural decay. Scientists use "single-nucleotide polymorphisms" which are single base changes in DNA, to track the differences between different species. For example a species closely related will have fewer SNP's than a species less closely related. The amount of SNP's can be used to calculate roughly the distance between two species genetically and therefore at what point they diverged.
Hello! Another biologist, yay!Hi,
I'm an atheist and a genetic/microbiological scientist and because this is a Christian forum I've opened this thread so anyone who wishes to know more about Evolution or my beliefs or why I hold them can ask me questions accordingly.
I would however like a respectful debate, but feel free to counteract anything I say if you disagree. I will try my hardest to remain respectful. Thanks
OK people, ask away.
I think the more important point when it comes to common descent is that genes also independently point to the same classification as phenotypic traits do. While some sequence changes might have morphological correlates, there is often no obvious causal relationship between sequence and morphology*. Why would, say, ribosomal RNA or cytochrome c, which have little to do with generating morphology, point to the same tree of life as morphology unless there really is a true tree of life?With the modern understanding of genetics, and how certain areas of genes, for example the homeobox, code for the regulation of the morphological appearance of an organism. Therefore the appearance differences of two different organisms can be followed across to certain differences in their genomes. This means that the taxonomy system of Linnaeus can be mostly applied a system of genetic catergorisation of life.
Oh, by the way, I found this languishing unread in my collection:What is the genetic basis for the three-fold expansion of the human brain from that of apes? Source material would be helpful, thanks.
I'm sure it also bothers palaeontologists. Speaking of, has anyone ever plugged things like Toumai and Orrorin into a proper cladistic analysis? (Do they even have enough material for that?) That would be quite interesting, considering how uncertain the placement of those two seems to be from pop-sci sources. Who knows, one of these beasts might turn out to be the chimp ancestor you're looking for.On a side note, perhaps you could answer a question that has bothered me for some time. Where are the chimpanzee ancestors in the fossil record?
Oh, by the way, I found this languishing unread in my collection:
PLoS Biology: Accelerated Recruitment of New Brain Development Genes into the Human Genome
(It's PLoS, so it's free)
I'm sure it also bothers palaeontologists. Speaking of, has anyone ever plugged things like Toumai and Orrorin into a proper cladistic analysis? (Do they even have enough material for that?) That would be quite interesting, considering how uncertain the placement of those two seems to be from pop-sci sources. Who knows, one of these beasts might turn out to be the chimp ancestor you're looking for.
Next-generation sequencing makes people go crazy. Imagine what happens when third-gen technology becomes widely available...I recognized a couple of the researchers from other papers. It's interesting how transcriptomes are a common theme. Thanks for the link, an interesting paper.
I thought there were a bunch of teeth or other fragmentary remains interpreted as such that post-dated the human-chimp split.To date, I have yet to see a paleontologist successfully identify a chimpanzee ancestor under 25 million years old.
Maybe we should look for chimp fossils IN the CongoI found that very odd since our ancestors would have been contemporary with then in Africa for at least 2 million years before spanning out in a massive migration of hominids. Somehow the Orangutans made it to Asia and a slight variation of chimpanzees made it to the Congo in equatorial Africa.
Well, it is immatureMany of the fossils bear a strong resemblance to Chimpanzee morphology, especially the Taung Child. For many years it was considered a Chimpanzee because of the size of the skull and it was even small for a Chimpanzee.
Hi,
I'm an atheist and a genetic/microbiological scientist and because this is a Christian forum I've opened this thread so anyone who wishes to know more about Evolution or my beliefs or why I hold them can ask me questions accordingly.
I would however like a respectful debate, but feel free to counteract anything I say if you disagree. I will try my hardest to remain respectful. Thanks
OK people, ask away.
As for brain size, well, there's a pretty 19th century preconception for you. People decided that a human ancestor must be big-brained based on... what exactly? At the time, knowledge of human ancestors was pretty much limited to Neandertals, fragments of Java man, and the Piltdown hoax.
What evidence?
I'm talking about a line linking those dots.
They are called 'missing links.'
You want me to accept them as missing? is that what you expect me to do?
In my opinion, each one of those dots could have been a productive member of society at one time; kissing his wife and kids 'goodbye' and going off to work; until they were struck down by what the Bible calls a 'wonderful disease.'
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