Answer to Gabriel

[Xeno.of.athens]

Gabriel appeared to Mary and announced something, he said,
Luke 1:

26 When the sixth month came, God sent the angel Gabriel to a city of Galilee called Nazareth,​

27 where a virgin dwelt, betrothed to a man of David’s lineage; his name was Joseph, and the virgin’s name was Mary.​

28 Into her presence the angel came, and said, Hail, thou who art full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women.✻​

29 She was much perplexed at hearing him speak so, and cast about in her mind, what she was to make of such a greeting.​

30 Then the angel said to her, Mary, do not be afraid; thou hast found favour in the sight of God.​

31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call him Jesus.​

32 He shall be great, and men will know him for the Son of the most High; the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he shall reign over the house of Jacob eternally;​

33 his kingdom shall never have an end.​

After he said this, Mary replied, saying

34 But Mary said to the angel, How can that be, since I know not man?​

Which is odd, very odd. Gabriel's message is promissory, it is a word from God about the future. He says "thou shalt conceive" and he says "and shalt bear a son", and "and shalt call him Jesus.", and "He shall be great", and also "and men will know him for the Son of the most High", and finally "the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he shall reign over the house of Jacob eternally". It's all about what will happen in the future. And Mary is introduced to us as betrothed to Joseph who will be her husband - God sent the angel Gabriel to a city of Galilee called Nazareth, 27 where a virgin dwelt, betrothed to a man of David’s lineage; his name was Joseph, and the virgin’s name was Mary.

Mary knew about marriage and - meaning nothing prurient here - knew how babies were made. Mary was to wed Joseph. What did she mean then when she said "how can that be?" and added as a reason why she was surprised about the prediction, "since I know not man"?

 

[RileyG]

She made a vow of perpetual virginity since, according to ancient tradition, she was a dedicated temple virgin at age 3.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Knew would be having sexual relations

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived,
and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Heres another example showing they are the same

Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones,
and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Heres another example showing they are the same

Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones,
and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

Blessed Mary understood what a man and his wife did to have a child. And Mary said to Gabriel, the angel sent by God, how can your prediction be true? Since I don't have sex. (sorry to put it bluntly in English) "I know not man" has the meaning "I never have sex with a man". Blessed Mary's question and the reason she gives for asking it is a statement about her determination to remain a virgin. The prediction seems impossible because Mary will not have sexual relations with any man.

Gabriel's answer is a reply that assures Mary that her virginity will not be ended, she will remain a virgin because God the Holy Spirit will work a miracle and cause her to conceive.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Blessed Mary understood what a man and his wife did to have a child. And Mary said to Gabriel, the angel sent by God, how can your prediction be true? Since I don't don't have sex. (sorry to put it bluntly in English) "I know not man" has the meaning "I never have sex with a man". Blessed Mary's question and the reason she gives for asking it is a statement about her determination to remain a virgin. The prediction seems impossible because Mary will not have sexual relations with any man.

Gabriel's answer is a reply that assures Mary that her virginity will not be ended, she will remain a virgin because God the Holy Spirit will work a miracle and cause her to conceive.

Okay, I see, this is going to be another one of those "perpetual virginty" of Mary threads.

Why does it matter so much? Why not be a little more obsessive about the perpetual virginity of our Lord Jesus Christ? Since we know for sure he was into perpetuality.

And male virgins is a thing too

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Why would Mary not having sex with her husband be something we should care about?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Okay, I see, this is going to be another one of those "perpetual virginty" of Mary threads.

Why does it matter so much? Why not be a little more obsessive about the perpetual virginity of our Lord Jesus Christ? Since we know for sure he was into perpetuality.

And male virgins is a thing too

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Why would Mary not having sex with her husband be something we should care about?

Both are true, one is disputed, so the answer is to deal with the dispute and be thankful for the agreed one; namely that the Lord, Jesus Christ, is ever virgin.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Both are true, one is disputed, so the answer is to deal with the dispute and be thankful for the agreed one; namely that the Lord, Jesus Christ, is ever virgin.

Yeah, I have always said that Jesus Christ (the fruit of her womb) is My Ever Virgin. We can glory in that, even as it says, "he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord"

But it's not really important that Mary would remain a virgin, but it was very important Jesus Christ remained one, because had he not than he would be a sinner (and there goes our salvation). Whereas, whether Mary remained a virgin or had sex with her husband would not be a sin (and is of no consequence to humanity)

So, it's neither here nor there for anyone (in otherwords)

 

[Lost4words]

Mary, was the living tabernacle of our dear Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God. A pure vessel, unblemished to carry our Saviour.

God wouldnt place His Son in anything that was less than 100% pure, and would forever remain so.

 

[Fireinfolding]

He was Mary's Saviour

Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law

 

[BobRyan]

Mary knew about marriage and - meaning nothing prurient here - knew how babies were made. Mary was to wed Joseph. What did she mean then when she said "how can that be?" and added as a reason why she was surprised about the prediction, "since I know not man"?

Mary.. like most Jews in her day - had no expectation at all that the Messiah would be the result of what we call "The virgin birth". She thought that the messiah would be born to a young woman.

No Jews accused Christ of not being the messiah using the argument that " since the Messiah would be the result of a virgin giving birth" then Jesus could not be the Messiah. It did not occur to them that this would be the case for the Messiah.

from the quote in your own OP -- she also must not have suspected that she herself was born sinless or that there had been an immaculate conception designating her as sinless and the future mother of the Messiah.

 

[Lost4words]

He was Mary's Saviour

Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law

From the moment that Mary was conceived. I agree.

God made Her a pure vessel.

 

[Fireinfolding]

From the moment that Mary was conceived. I agree.

God made Her a pure vessel.

So she needed a Savior until she didn't?

 

[Fireinfolding]

And as Mary might have been an earthen vessel to carry Jesus (in and after the flesh) in her womb for nine short months so are these much the same earthen vessels in whom God reveals his Son (in and after the Spirit)

Paul wrote about how it pleased God who separated him from his mother's womb

Gal 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen.

Thats an earthen vessel carrying Christ in them. Same here...

Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision,
the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)

Both earthen vessels carrying around Christ in them

2 Cr 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

And when people started looking at them as if they were something else for this, Peter adresses them, saying
"why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

So it was not about their own power or holiness such occurences were manifesting

Christ in Mary isn't what they emphasized, but rather

Christ in you is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

So not Christ in Mary but rather Christ in you. He also says,

2 Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you,
except ye be reprobates?

They never made it about Christ in the womb of Mary, but rather travailing among them that Christ be formed in them

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

So, it's neither here nor there for anyone

It may seem that way to you, yet for the billions in the ancient churches it is both here and significant because it is about Christ, and affects Christology.

 

[Fireinfolding]

It may seem that way to you, yet for the billions in the ancient churches it is both here and significant because it is about Christ, and affects Christology.

How does Mary remaining a virgin affect any regarding Jesus Christ?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Mary.. like most Jews in her day - had not expectation at all that the Messiah would be the result of what we call "The virgin birth". She though[t] that the messiah would be born to a young woman.

[I made two small corrections to typos in this quote, I struck through the 't' in 'not' and added a 't' to though[t], I did it so that it would be clear what my reply is addressing]

I am not sure that is true, Jews in the centuries before the Virgin Birth wrote the LXX and in it the word virgin is explicitly in Isaiah 7:14.

¶ “Therefore the Lord [So 1QIsaa; MT reads Lord] himself will give you a sign. Watch! The virgin [So LXX; 1QIsaa MT read The young woman] is conceiving a child, and will give birth to a son, and his name will be called [So 1QIsaa; MT LXX read she will name him; MT alt. reading and you will name him] Immanuel. [The Heb. name Immanuel means God with us]​

(Isaiah 7:14 ISV*)

No Jews accused Christ of not being the messiah since the Messiah would be the result of a virgin giving birth. It did not occur to them that this would be the case for the Messiah.

That is an interesting comment. How do you know it is true?

 

[Lost4words]

So she needed a Savior until she didn't?

Jesus was her saviour since the moment that she herself was conceived....

 

[Fireinfolding]

Jesus was her saviour since the moment that she herself was conceived....

Was Jesus yours the moment you were conceived too?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

How does Mary remaining a virgin affect any regarding Jesus Christ?

It is related to the other Marian Dogma, the immaculate conception, which together with her perpetual virginity as the faithful handmaid of the Lord, relates to Christ's unstained-by-original-sin humanity.