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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

smaneck

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One issue beyond the executive orders is the growing severity of them and overall concentration of power in the executive branch. Congress has been giving pieces of its power away for decades and just now is starting to bemoan the fact.

But that was done by the Patriot Act not an Executive Order.
 
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Vylo

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But that was done by the Patriot Act not an Executive Order.
It is more than the patriot act. Presidents have been pushing the limits further and further far before then. Congress has done little to push back until recently.
 
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chandraclaws

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One issue beyond the executive orders is the growing severity of them and overall concentration of power in the executive branch. Congress has been giving pieces of its power away for decades and just now is starting to bemoan the fact.
This congress has obstructed everything President Obama has tried to do, even if it was their idea in the first place. McConell's stated main goal when Obama was elected was to make him a failed president. I'm actually surprised he has used so few executive orders.
 
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Sistrin

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Sistrin

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If an executive order is unconstitutional it can be struck down. I didn't have much of a problem with this executive order because it simply closes a loophole that shouldn't have been there.

Except that loophole was a false flag. Gun dealers who sell at gun shows are already licensed to sell their product. The only difference is they are going to an off-site location. All the laws governing background checks still apply to any sale they may make. These dealers are not setting up in a parking lot and selling from the trunk of their car.

This congress has obstructed everything President Obama has tried to do...

Yet he accomplishes everything he tries to do. With almost complete disregard for the will of the people.
 
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Vylo

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Yeah, and its contributing to the problem because its forcing Obama's hand, letting the presidency grab even more power. Its a slow and insidious cycle that could get ugly if it continues for too many more presidencies.
 
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football5680

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Then what changed?
 
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smaneck

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Except the background checks haven't been happening. If they have been happening then relax. Nothing has changed.

Yet he accomplishes everything he tries to do. With almost complete disregard for the will of the people.

You mean the people who elected him twice? Congress no longer represents the will of the people. It represents gerrymandered districts.
 
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Hospes

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Per the Constitution, legislation is to originate in the congress. Regulations are written to enact passed legislation. (To the normal citizen, it is these regulations that are law, not the actual legislation.) Obama has used his executive orders to change various regulations in ways that are not supported by the legislation that the regulations were to enact. The short of it is Obama has, as he sees opportunity, circumvented the Constitution and congress and enacted laws.

Unfortunately, the other branches of government and the American people are supporting his behavior and have not chosen to impede our slide toward monarchy.

Side note: note how so many Americans speak of their desire for the president "to get things done." It is a sign we are growing comfortable with having a monarchy. The Constitution did not set up the president "to get things done"; he was to faithfully lead the military and ensure the law was faithfully executed.
 
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smaneck

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What do any of your President's actions have to do with socialism?

You're not from this country and don't know the crazy way the right uses the word "socialism." Bismark was a socialist in their book.
 
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smaneck

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Wrong. His executive orders merely constitute the manner in which he sees that legislation is enacted. For instance, while the Obama Administration has kicked out more illegal immigrants than any American President, he has the discretion to decide which illegal immigrants to concentrate on.
 
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KWCrazy

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Thank You,so the Supreme Court superceded states rights?
That is correct. They voted to override the 10th Amendment and give sovereignty to the federal government over the issue. The conservative members of the court sided with the Constitutions. The liberals members, as usual, ignored the Constitution and sided with their political buddies. That has always been the case with activists judges; finding things that are NOT in the Constitution and giving them authority over things which are.

Liberals understand that they cannot get their ideas through the legislative branch, so they do so through the judiciary. It's been that way since Marbury V Madison. Obamacare, for example, passed 4-4-1. The deciding vote ruled on an issue that wasn't even part of the case; the government's right to tax. Remember when Obummer said it was NOT a tax? Had he not recanted his lie to the Supreme Court, Obamacare would not have passed.
 
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KWCrazy

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In this country, Congress makes laws, not the president. Making new laws or changing existing laws as he has done for the last 7 years is a violation of his oath to defend the Constitution and an impeachable offense.
 
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smaneck

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smaneck

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In this country, Congress makes laws, not the president. Making new laws or changing existing laws as he has done for the last 7 years is a violation of his oath to defend the Constitution and an impeachable offense.

He didn't make any laws.
 
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trunks2k

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As far as I know this is the third Executive Order our President has put out.
1 Immigrants being automatic citizens.
No he hasn't. He made an executive order essentially regarding how the INS enforces illegal immigration and who to focus on. Whether this order is constitutional is still being worked out in the courts (imagine that). Personally, based on my understanding of the order, I'm betting it's legal. The executive branch has limited resources, and cannot possibly deal with all illegal immigrants. I think it's within his scope to say, "if you meet this set of criteria, we'll leave you alone so we can have the resources deal with these other people".
2 Gay Marriage
No he hasn't. Same sex marriage in the US is the result of a court ruling.
3 Gun law.
Of which he has a certain amount of power granted to him to do. If the law says X, the executive branch is in charge of enforcing X, and X is not explicitly spelled out, the president has the ability, within certain bounds, to define how X is enforced. Whether or not his proposed enforcement of gun laws is constitutional is yet to be seen (I don't think we've seen a clear layout of it yet)
 
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revanneosl

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I don't know why people don't know about the details of the President's executive actions to reduce gun violence. They've been up on the White House website since before he made the speech.
 
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