another question about eternal security

[conservativerepublican]

With the subject of eternal security could someone please explain what the verses in hebrews 6:4-6 mean. thanks.

 

[BronxBriar]

[bible]hebrews 6:4-6[/bible]

 

[BronxBriar]

I believe this passage is more about repentance than salvation (although granted there is an indirect connection here). It sounds as if Paul is adressing the discouraged believer and the main idea is not that "if you fall away, you can't come back to Jesus ever," but that "if you turn your back on Jesus, don't expect to find salvation anywhere else, especially in the foundations of Judaism apart from the fullness of Jesus.

 

[BronxBriar]

I believe this passage is more about repentance than salvation (although granted there is an indirect connection here). It sounds as if Paul is adressing the discouraged believer and the main idea is not that "if you fall away, you can't come back to Jesus ever," but that "if you turn your back on Jesus, don't expect to find salvation anywhere else, especially in the foundations of Judaism apart from the fullness of Jesus.

And everyone is ok with that?

 

[@@Paul@@]

And everyone is ok with that?

of course!!

I do not believe this passage is refering to eternal life in Christ...

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,​

........it is talking about "perfection".

Another thing to note. Hebrews was written to the...?? ah,,, Hebrews... What was israel working for at the time this letter was written? Eternal life?.... A millenial kingdom?

Heb 6:13-15 KJV
(13) For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
(14) Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
(15) And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

Act 26:6-7 KJV
(6) And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers:
(7) Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.​

.........Israel was "working" for the hope of the promises (plural) made of God unto the fathers. The verses in Hebrews are referring to losing that hope. If you fall away, if you do not endure to the end,,, you will be cut off, not from eternal life into hell.... from the promises.

Notice what happened to the fornicator in Corinthians...

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.​

...He was judged by Paul "in the spirit", killed (just like Ananias and Sapphira I suppose), and only his spirit will be saved.

Here's something to think about...

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:​

...Better than what?

 

[RhetorTheo]

I believe this passage is more about repentance than salvation (although granted there is an indirect connection here). It sounds as if Paul is adressing the discouraged believer and the main idea is not that "if you fall away, you can't come back to Jesus ever," but that "if you turn your back on Jesus, don't expect to find salvation anywhere else, especially in the foundations of Judaism apart from the fullness of Jesus.

I don't understand. "t is impossible for those who were once enlightened, . . . If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Are you saying that "repentance" refers to repenting with the Jews and returning to Judaism? If so, why does the second half say the inability to repent is because they are crucifying Jesus?

I don't see any reading other than "if you fall away, you can't come back to Jesus ever." What part am I missing?

TIA

 

[BronxBriar]

I don't understand... What part am I missing?
TIA

Sorry about that. I believe my post is clear enough.

 

[Sword-In-Hand]

I believe the verse is saying that if you could lose your salvation you could never regain it because Christ would have to come back and die again for our sins.

 

[FreeinChrist]

With the subject of eternal security could someone please explain what the verses in hebrews 6:4-6 mean. thanks.

Hebrews - my favorite book! Have spent alot of time in this book.

The answer lies in doing an overview of the book and looking at the audience of the book, and at the comparisons and exhortations and assurances too. They are Hebrews who have come out of Judaism. An early problem of the church was persecution by Jews and Judaizers - those who would bring Christians into the old Covenant.

What is referred to here is that there were Hebrews (Jews) who heard the gospel, initially responded, participated in corporate worship thus seeing the gifts of the Spirit in believers, yet decided against Christ as the Messiah.( never had saving faith). As the writer says (in different words), if you reject Christ as the atoning sacrifice, you are lost because there is no other sacrifice for sin that will be made. That was it. Accept Christ - salvation. Reject Christ - you are lost.

That passage is not about ones who have been saved who then lose there salvation, but about those take a tast of Christianity...and turn it down. They are like the seed sown in rocky soil...no root (Holy Spirit). So they are not saved.

Mat 13:20 "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;

Mat 13:21 yet he has no {firm} root in himself, but is {only} temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.


Hebrews 6 also refers to those who don't reject Christ as having 'an anchor of the soul':

Hbr 6:19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a {hope} both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil,

Hbr 6:20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

 

[theseed]

With the subject of eternal security could someone please explain what the verses in hebrews 6:4-6 mean. thanks.

Possible interpations:
1) Arminians believe that this is talking about loseing one's salvation, but notice it is not possible to be saved a 2nd time

2)Some think this is not referring to genuine believers, the falling away is knowledge of truth, but not actually acting on it, therefore, no faith. They know Jesus saves, but come short of placing thier faith. I may know that a chair can hold me up, but if I don't sit in it, then I'm not placing my faith in it.

3)Some think that it is talking about true believers, but the "falling away" is only there to stregthen the warning. Hence, "It is impossible for a student to turn back the clock, once enrolled in the class, to start over again. Therefore, let all students go deeper into knowldege"

I find it hard to accept #1 becasue it does not allow for one to be saved more than once.

You can read more expositions in this short thread.

http://www.christianforums.com/t88254