Another poor response to ERV evidence for common ancestry by a creationist.

[Incariol]

Can you present proof Jesus was born of a virgin? Can you present proof Jesus rose from the dead? Can you present proof Jesus is God?

I didn't think so.

That's nice. Good job being random. THE FALLOPIAN TUBE IS NOT PHYSICALLY CONNECTED TO THE OVARY.

Since we are doing random topics...

 

[mzungu]

Can you present proof Jesus was born of a virgin? Can you present proof Jesus rose from the dead? Can you present proof Jesus is God?

I didn't think so.

The onus is on you to prove your claims; Otherwise I am tempted to ask you to prove that Jesus did not have a pink polka dotted baby T-Rex as a pet!

 

[dad]

It's called science. It's not a religion. It is time you grow up and learn the difference.

Falsely called. Otherwise you could talk details and stop the oral flatulence.

No interruption of lake varves,

Great, so what? Like we should expect some? Why? You had a nightmare or something?

annual ice layers,

In this present state, yes of course. No news here.

tree ring dendrochronologies,

What about them??? They grow slow now, fast before...whoopee do.

and a complete lack of a global flood layer.

Maybe not. Kt is my current suspect. If you can rule it or that general area out, let's see you do so? I may be able to pull in another suspect and pin it on him. But I would be surprised if you had the stuff to require such a move.

Also, did you forget the topic? ERV's have been presented as evidence of common ancestry between humans and chimps.

Rubbish in the extreme. A different transmission of viri has zero to do with having a man come from a monkey or chimp.

All you can present as a refutation is a fantasy world where the laws of physics are magically different, a fantasy you have zero evidence for. Please explain.

No one NEEDS ANY 'refutation' for an accusation with no foundation, that chimps got their viri in a present state way. Your ONLY hope or possible case would reside in some proof that a present state existed in the far past, so we could claim some vertical or horizontal or...whatever transfer...! That should be obvious.

 

[dad]

Does anyone here know what DAD is talking about I am hard pressed to make sense of his posts but they have me stumped

I could take a shot at it...if you specified what issue you were referring to.

 

[Incariol]

<various insults, evasions and rambling about past states snipped>

Were you going to give us any proof of a different past state anytime soon?

 

[dad]

Aristophanes' Birds.

Great..so what do their eggshells tell you, in your opinion?

Still waiting for your evidence of a global flood and "different past state".

Why would I need more evidence than the proven word of God? Those that claim His account is a lie need to have reasons.....focus.

 

[Incariol]

Great..so what do their eggshells tell you, in your opinion?


LEADER OF THE CHORUS Weak mortals, chained to the earth, creatures of clay as frail as the foliage of the woods, you unfortunate race, whose life is but darkness, as unreal as a shadow, the illusion of a dream, hearken to us, who are immortal beings, ethereal, ever young and occupied with eternal thoughts, for we shall teach you about all celestial matters; you shall know thoroughly what is the nature of the birds, what the origin of the gods, of the rivers, of Erebus, and Chaos; thanks to us, even Prodicus will envy you your knowledge.

At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, black-winged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did not exist until Eros had brought together all the ingredients of the world, and from their marriage Heaven, Ocean, Earth and the imperishable race of blessed gods sprang into being. Thus our origin is very much older than that of the dwellers in Olympus. We are the offspring of Eros; there are a thousand proofs to show it. We have wings and we lend assistance to lovers. How many handsome youths, who had sworn to remain insensible, have opened their thighs because of our power and have yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Why would I need more evidence than the proven word of God?

Because you are in a science forum and bronze age mythology isn't proof.

Those that claim His account is a lie need to have reasons.....focus.

That isn't how scientific debate works. If you want your bronze age mythology to be accepted as scientific evidence, you need to demonstrate a reason for that. Otherwise, I am going to say those that claim Aristophanes' Birds is a lie need to have reasons...focus.

I realize this is a complicated concept, so I'll try to put it simply.

Nobody cares what you think the Bible says.

The end.

 

[Gracchus]

Nobody cares what you think the Bible says.

The end.

What he says!

 

[AV1611VET]

What does 'prove it' mean?

 

[mzungu]

LEADER OF THE CHORUS Weak mortals, chained to the earth, creatures of clay as frail as the foliage of the woods, you unfortunate race, whose life is but darkness, as unreal as a shadow, the illusion of a dream, hearken to us, who are immortal beings, ethereal, ever young and occupied with eternal thoughts, for we shall teach you about all celestial matters; you shall know thoroughly what is the nature of the birds, what the origin of the gods, of the rivers, of Erebus, and Chaos; thanks to us, even Prodicus will envy you your knowledge.

At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, black-winged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did not exist until Eros had brought together all the ingredients of the world, and from their marriage Heaven, Ocean, Earth and the imperishable race of blessed gods sprang into being. Thus our origin is very much older than that of the dwellers in Olympus. We are the offspring of Eros; there are a thousand proofs to show it. We have wings and we lend assistance to lovers. How many handsome youths, who had sworn to remain insensible, have opened their thighs because of our power and have yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

And to those who may not know it; Eros (Greek for LOVE) was the God of LOVE FOR ALL KNOWLEDGE not the winged Cupid as depicted in many stories and on st Valentines cards.

I love this part of our creation mythology for the first God to be created was not some fierce and omnipotent God but a God of LOVE; Love for all things!

 

[Jazer]

If God exist and He performs miracles then the earth could have been submerged in water or fire and there be no evidence left behind.

In this case it would be very easy for the water itself to drift off into space and "disappear". Also there is water holding up our tectonic plates. If that water were to come into contact with the hot core of the earth, like a volcanic eruption, the water would turn to a vapor and leave the earth to enter the atmosphere. So to produce water to flood the earth is no problem and to get rid of whatever water you want is no problem.

 

[mzungu]

In this case it would be very easy for the water itself to drift off into space and "disappear". Also there is water holding up our tectonic plates. If that water were to come into contact with the hot core of the earth, like a volcanic eruption, the water would turn to a vapor and leave the earth to enter the atmosphere. So to produce water to flood the earth is no problem and to get rid of whatever water you want is no problem.

Water will not evaporate nor boil if it is under tremendous pressure. In fact some synthetic Emeralds are grown in water temperatures up to 360 degrees centigrade under high pressure in autoclaves!

Water does not hold the tectonic plates.

 

[Loudmouth]

If God exist and He performs miracles would it matter what you observe in nature?

Last Thursdayism is not an argument. It is an lame excuse for not having one.

Why don't we apply the same argument to murder trials? The prosecution could get a conviction for anyone they want. All they need to do is argue that God exists and God can perform miracles. The lack of evidence is due to God removing the evidence through magical poofing. If you were on a jury would you be convinced? Probably not, right? So why should I be convinced here?

 

[Loudmouth]

Also there is water holding up our tectonic plates.

Completely false. Rock does not float on water. Tectonic plates rest on the mantle which is plasticized rock.

And what does this have to do with ERV's? Remember our last discussion on ERV's, John?

 

[Loudmouth]

Falsely called.

Evidence please.

Great, so what? Like we should expect some? Why? You had a nightmare or something?

Floods would definitely interrupt lake varves. Here is a picture of lake varves interrupted above and below by flooding:

Notice how the flood deposits (above and below the laminated layers) are coarse grained and the lake varves are fine grained with alternating colors. We should see this same thing in lake varves across the world at the same exact time. We don't. Therefore, no global flood. It is that simple. This is backed up by correlated annual records in tree ring dendrochronologies and annual ice layer deposition in both the Antarctic and Greenland.

In this present state, yes of course. No news here.

That is the only state there is.

What about them??? They grow slow now, fast before...whoopee do.

Evidence please. Also explain why the tree ring dendrochronologies match the lake varves and annual ice layers.

Maybe not. Kt is my current suspect.

That is 65 million years old.

Rubbish in the extreme. A different transmission of viri has zero to do with having a man come from a monkey or chimp.

What different transmission? Evidence please.

Did you forget that the rebuilt the ERV's and it produces retroviruses that are indistinguishable from modern retroviruses?

No one NEEDS ANY 'refutation' for an accusation with no foundation,

The foundation is in the OP. However, it is nice of you to admit that you have no refutation for this evidence. I guess common ancestry stands.

 

[sandwiches]

What does 'prove it' mean?

Demonstrate that what you're claiming is the truth.

 

[Doveaman]

Last Thursdayism is not an argument. It is an lame excuse for not having one.

What does this have to do with my point?

Why don't we apply the same argument to murder trials? The prosecution could get a conviction for anyone they want. All they need to do is argue that God exists and God can perform miracles. The lack of evidence is due to God removing the evidence through magical poofing. If you were on a jury would you be convinced? Probably not, right? So why should I be convinced here?

This is not the same argument.

Court trials require physical evidence.

The global flood requires God's word.

If God said it happened, then it happened. Case closed. Evidence can take a hike.

 

[Doveaman]

The onus is on you to prove your claims

They are not my claims. They are God's claims.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God" (2 Tim 3:16).

I'm just the messenger.

If my doctor sent a message to me through you to tell me I had cancer I wouldn't rely on you for proof. I would check with my doctor who has all the details.

If God sent a message to you through me to tell you you had cancer you shouldn't rely on me for proof. You should check with God who has all the details.

 

[Doveaman]

That's nice. Good job being random. THE FALLOPIAN TUBE IS NOT PHYSICALLY CONNECTED TO THE OVARY.

Since we are doing random topics...

I thought the topic was about providing "proof" to support our claims:

He refuses to explain why the Bible should count as proof and other religious texts shouldn't. He refuses to present proof for a global flood. He refuses to present proof for a "different past state".

Can you provide proof for your Christian beliefs?

If not, then why do you demand that others provide proof for their beliefs?

 

[Gracchus]

They are not my claims. They are God's claims.

You claim that they are God's claims. (Frankly, after much consideration, I have concluded that your observations and reasoning are often faulty, making your testimony ... doubtful.)

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God"

(2 Tim 3:16).

I'm just the messenger.

But you cannot demonstrate who it was that sent you, or indeed that you aren't just making it up.

If my doctor sent a message to me through you to tell me I had cancer I wouldn't rely on you for proof. I would check with my doctor.

If it were high noon in July in the Sahara, and you said the sun was shining, I would check.

If God sent a message to you through me to tell you you had cancer you shouldn't rely on me for proof. You should check with God.

What's his e-mail address. Phone number?