• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Another Lust Thread-My Specific Problem

Armistead14

Newbie
Mar 18, 2006
1,430
61
✟24,449.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
i like what he says above. he's right. if u read the verse it says that if u look upon a woman TO lust then u have commited adultery with her in his heart. its ok to look at a beautiful woman and think man she sure is looking good today but when you look at her or pictures,videos,magazines etc. with the intention to experience lust it is a sin

(if anyone knows where this verse is it would help)

The verse doesn't say that at all, lust in this verse is to covet, the willful planning to take another mans wife. The verse simply states if you plan to take or woo away another mans wife, then you've comitted adultery already, no sexual act is needed.

Due to hormones from puberty we're not able to look at a woman and think she's just beautiful all the time, often sex thoughts automatically pop up once you notice her beauty, but that stems from hormones, the way we were made. It's when you plan to do harm with your sexuality that it becomes a problem, not sexual thoughts and desires.

Some say God gives us wet dreams to deal with the issue, but notice even they're highly sexual, so much so one can [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] without touching. Why would God give us highly sexual wet dreams if thinking sex is wrong?
 
Upvote 0

ToBeInChrist

Newbie
Jul 13, 2011
763
24
✟23,548.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I'm trying hard to do what pleases God, but the one sin that I can't seem to escape, (because of my age?) is LUST.
Lust fills my mind almost constantly! I know it's fairly common for my age but it has gotten really bad.
I've studied this in the Bible and all I can find is that I shouldn't feel this way. According to all I've read, and I have spent a lot of time on this, I shouldn't want to sin, being a Christian.


Well generally I don't want to sin. Then I'm suddently stimulated, overwhelmed, or weak and ideas/feelings arise. Maybe it's resentment, maybe it's sexual thoughts.

What do I DO, then? Maybe I cave in. Then I can ask forgiveness, decide to turn around and to follow Jesus fully, and BELIEVE I've been forgiven. Don't let the devil condemn when you've repented, asked forgiveness, decided to follow Jesus, decided to start over.

Sometimes I can distract myself, do something else; sometimes I can stop a chain-reaction from occuring, and it's easier to resist. Resist the devil and he will flee you. If I shut the door on the temptation, I may be sorry that the temptation was tempting, but at least I shut the door before it progressed, thank God!

Focus on your strength in Christ against sin, and believe in forgiveness, and maybe you can relax a bit more.

Your body and the culture will throw feelings/impulses/thoughts your way -- you do not have to feel condemned because of this. You may be tempted. You do not have to feel condemned because you are tempted. Maybe some settings are more stimulating/provocative/tempting. Maybe you can find ways to avoid temptation.

If you want to follow Jesus but find that you fail -- know He is forgiving, merciful, loving. Don't stop wanting to follow Jesus. When you fail, repent, but believe you are forgiven and move on deciding you have victory over sin in Christ -- In Christ, eventually you will have complete victory over sin.

You can maintain high moral standards and also be less tense/self-judging about being tempted. Flee fornication, keep that desire to be free from lust, but don't condemn yourself for feeling tempted. Don't listen to those who try to say sex outside of marriage is ok -- sex outside of marriage is fornication, it is sin -- flee fornication. Don't feel so guilty about feeling temptation that you loose sight of the big picture. You are tempted, but you can ask for God's strength and resist the devil, and there is NO CONDEMNATION in CHRIST JESUS. So put all of yourself into following Jesus and REST in His Yoke which is light.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ToBeInChrist

Newbie
Jul 13, 2011
763
24
✟23,548.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It sounded to me like some were encouraging masturbation or sex before marriage.

In the NT we find repeatedly that Christians are not cave into the desires of the flesh, ought not be slaves to the flesh, and ought not encourage lust in the heart, ought to flee fornication, ought not commit homosexual acts, etc.
 
Upvote 0

dayhiker

Mature veteran
Sep 13, 2006
15,563
5,308
MA
✟241,384.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I agree we aren't to sin ... Don't see masturbation listed anywhere as a sin and fornication meant prostitution in the Greek .. well, actually even today it still means prostitution. Seems to me there are enough sins I can commit without making up more to add to the list.

Married people can have sex twice a day and I don't know anyone who will say they are a slave to their flesh. But mastubate twice a week and then we are a slave to our flesh! Makes no sense to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nilloc
Upvote 0

ToBeInChrist

Newbie
Jul 13, 2011
763
24
✟23,548.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I agree we aren't to sin ... Don't see masturbation listed anywhere as a sin

The issue with masturbation is that we aren't to be slaves to our flesh, self-control is spiritual fruit, and we aren't to foster lust in our heart. In practice, a habit of gratifying the flesh is a problem already, and in the case of masturbation, it is difficult not to foster lust. When pornography is added, lust is involved, period, we are encouraging our hearts to love what God hates: voyeuristic encouragement of sexual immorality.

and fornication meant prostitution in the Greek ..

Says who? Early Jews and Christians frowned upon pre-marital sex. Sexual immorality is a broader concept than prostitution and adultery.

Married people can have sex twice a day and I don't know anyone who will say they are a slave to their flesh. But mastubate twice a week and then we are a slave to our flesh! Makes no sense to me.

In Scripture we find that married men and women are to offer themselves sexually to each other, their body is not their own but their spouse's. There is no such Scriptural command to please our own flesh for our own self, especially not habitually. There just isn't any glowing endorsement of masturabation in Scripture, and there clearly ARE moral principles in the Bible that argue against encouraging the practice of masturbation.
 
Upvote 0

dayhiker

Mature veteran
Sep 13, 2006
15,563
5,308
MA
✟241,384.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
No, Jerome didn't approve a pre-marital sex. Actually he didn't even like marital sex, but gave in to it for procreation as a new baby would be a virgin.
So if the Greek meant pre-marital sex then I'd have thought he would have used Latin that said that.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeInChrist

Newbie
Jul 13, 2011
763
24
✟23,548.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife" (Exodus 22:16)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)

"Run away from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body." (1 Corinthians 6:18)

"Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband." (1 Corinthians 7:2)

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God" (1 Thessalonians 4:3-5)


"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Galatians 5:19-25)

Let those who have ears, hear.
 
Upvote 0

Armistead14

Newbie
Mar 18, 2006
1,430
61
✟24,449.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife" (Exodus 22:16)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)

"Run away from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body." (1 Corinthians 6:18)

"Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband." (1 Corinthians 7:2)

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God" (1 Thessalonians 4:3-5)


"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Galatians 5:19-25)

Let those who have ears, hear.


Exodus 22:16 - 17, "If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins."

Deuteronomy 22:28 - 29, "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days."

This Exodus passage is one of the few passages that deal directly with the issue of premarital sex. There are a couple of important points concerning this passage. First, neither the man or woman is rebuked or punished for any sin (compare with Deut. 22). The man is required to seek marriage but can be refused by the father and often was. If the father refused the marriage, the man paid a fine for devaluing his property. The key here is that there is no punishment for the man and woman having sex. The punishment is for the change in value of the woman as bride. The term "virgin's dowry" implies that there was a special dowry (probably of greater compensation) for her virgin status and since she is no longer a virgin, the father is still payed the dowry as compensation regardless of whether she marries the guy or not. Also note that there is no law concerning the pre-marital sexuality of men or unbetrothed non-virgin women.

The passage in Deut. refers to a rape not consensual pre-marital sex. In order to remedy this crime, the man must take the woman into his household and care for her. He cannot divorce her. The rape of a married or engaged woman carried the death penalty. The rape of a virgin who is not engaged carries a lesser penalty. And while the penalty may seem unjust by our culture's standpoint, the penalty was probably very just for that culture.

In Deut. 22 there is a clear example of what happens to a woman who has had sex prior to her marriage but deceives her parents and husband into believing that she was a virgin and accepted money ("playing the harlot in her father's house") for her virgin status. Although the severe penalty for such a deception is stoning, the husband can show love, forgiveness and mercy. The issue is again her value, virgins carried value in that culture, non virgins didn't.

Very important, to sell a daughter they would get more money if she was a virgin, non-virgin were cheaper to buy. If a man bought a daughter at a virgin price and she was not (after he had sex with her and the bedding was not bloody), then he could return her to the father and get his money back. See, it had nothing to do with premarital sex, it was her status, if she lacked virgin status the husband could simply give her back even though he had sex with her. Sadly, we know many women can lose their hymen without sex, imagine some of those poor girls back then trying to explain they didn't have sex, but didn't bleed on her wedding night.

Also, in these times, many women were caught in battle, their husband were killed, etc..These were usually non virgins married to soldiers and considered captive women. These men that captured non virgins had to allow them to go through a mourning process, then they could have sex with them. The intent was to make them a wife or concubine, but biblical law states if they weren't satisfied with her for any reason, they didn't have to marry her and could let her go. Law also stated if they didn't marry them, they couldn't make slaves out of them, they had to set them free.

"Run away from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body." (1 Corinthians 6:18)

"Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband." (1 Corinthians 7:2)

Yes, but Paul was clear and listed the sins of sexual immorality, he said nothing of premarital sex. Sexual morality "pornia", Paul gave clear statements on what defined it.

1) Sex during women's menstruation.
2) Adultery
3) Pagan sex goddess prostitution.
4) Pederasty
5)Incest
6)Beastality

Why would Paul call out sexual immorality in direct terms and say nothing of premarital sex? The answer is jews and gentile already had laws dealing with property rights regarding premarital sex, we know both had laws allowing premarital sex regarding non virgins.

What we do see though is a slow theme in process, the apostles, not by law, but by moral code started giving women status, they set the ground work to change culture, but women remained property to the father or husband for hundreds of years to come. However, many laws that punished women unfairly were done away with.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ToBeInChrist

Newbie
Jul 13, 2011
763
24
✟23,548.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Ancient Jews and early Christians considered pre-marital sex to be sinful.

You can quibble with words all you want, strain at a gnat, swallow a camel, but sexual immorality of various kinds (some pointed out specifically, some indicated generally) is condemned, and you have to twist Scripture to try to come up with an endorsement of pre-marital sex.
 
Upvote 0

dayhiker

Mature veteran
Sep 13, 2006
15,563
5,308
MA
✟241,384.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I don't do all those things. Its those that want to say pre-marital sex is sin that have to do that. My study has porneia and its family of 5 words to deal with prostitution. Its easy to find documentation showing that. I've found people that say porneia means pre-marital sex and immoral sex, but I can't find any ancient reference that says it means that. Not do I find anyone who gives historical documentation showing what all the resources that say porneia means prostitution are wrong.

I can show historically that Jerome about 400 BC had its meaning as prostitution. I can show when the KJV was written in 1611 that fornication mean prostitution. I can show that when I was a kid fornication's meaning had changed to mean pre-marital sex and in the last few years since church people want to have a broader definition of more things being sin they have changed its meaning again to sexual immorality.

My the Greeks didn't use porneia to mean sexual activity that was immoral. Paul followed the Greek moral writers in writing lists of evil activities. Porneia isn't listed once. But the Greek writers did consider some sexual activities to be wrong, so I'm sure if porneia meant sexual immorality they would have listed.

But if you can show any of the above to be wrong, I'd love to read your research.
 
Upvote 0

Armistead14

Newbie
Mar 18, 2006
1,430
61
✟24,449.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Ancient Jews and early Christians considered pre-marital sex to be sinful.

You can quibble with words all you want, strain at a gnat, swallow a camel, but sexual immorality of various kinds (some pointed out specifically, some indicated generally) is condemned, and you have to twist Scripture to try to come up with an endorsement of pre-marital sex.


Paul never indicated generally, he spoke loudly and clearly defining sexual sin. It's christian bias that goes outside of scripture and tries to include anything "general" that they seem fit, this itself has changed numerous times. You're the one saying some "indicated generally" that's twisting scripture, when all sexual sin was called out directly.

I didn't quibble with words, the ancient jews never considered premarital sex sinful, except when it denied the property rights of virgins...You're the one quibbling with opinion. You're welcome to refute with scripture.:thumbsup:

In fact, most jews still operate under the same OT principles, prostitution has and always been legal in Isreal. They do have laws criminalizing exploitive conducts to protect women who prostitute and it can't be linked to pagan worship. The early jews and today never even viewed prostitution wrong, as long as it isn't connected to pagan worship.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeInChrist

Newbie
Jul 13, 2011
763
24
✟23,548.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Again, you don't dispute that Jerome found pre-marital sex to be sinful.

Everything we know about ancient Jews and early Christians, the Christians of the first couple centuries, indicates that virginity at marriage was considered good and that lack of virginity at marriage was undesirable, that fooling around before marriage was considered sinful.

We aren't to be slaves to our flesh or to promote lust in our hearts.
 
Upvote 0

Armistead14

Newbie
Mar 18, 2006
1,430
61
✟24,449.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I don't do all those things. Its those that want to say pre-marital sex is sin that have to do that. My study has porneia and its family of 5 words to deal with prostitution. Its easy to find documentation showing that. I've found people that say porneia means pre-marital sex and immoral sex, but I can't find any ancient reference that says it means that. Not do I find anyone who gives historical documentation showing what all the resources that say porneia means prostitution are wrong.

I can show historically that Jerome about 400 BC had its meaning as prostitution. I can show when the KJV was written in 1611 that fornication mean prostitution. I can show that when I was a kid fornication's meaning had changed to mean pre-marital sex and in the last few years since church people want to have a broader definition of more things being sin they have changed its meaning again to sexual immorality.

My the Greeks didn't use porneia to mean sexual activity that was immoral. Paul followed the Greek moral writers in writing lists of evil activities. Porneia isn't listed once. But the Greek writers did consider some sexual activities to be wrong, so I'm sure if porneia meant sexual immorality they would have listed.

But if you can show any of the above to be wrong, I'd love to read your research.

Actually you can link pornia, translated to sexual immorality, but the bible clearly stated what the activity was. They're 32 verses that contain the word Pornia. Biblically, where pornia is used it describes an illicit and illegal sex act according to biblical law and never used generally. Each is clearly defined, the ones I listed, OTT, it has no basis to define sexual conduct or immorality.

Sadly, translators mistranslated fornication in several places as pornia/porneia. They did this to give pornia a broader definition and as you stated the church often redefined it to suit needs and control sexuality. Fornication itself was also given a much broader meaning.

Many leaders like Augustine and Constantine deemed all sex evil, even in marriage except to procreate. They created many laws regarding such and if you failed not only did you have to repent, you paid fines to the church. It was a great money maker. During this time they also did away with all the marriages of priest, only to protect church property from divorce and the church would no longer have the cost of upkeep of these large families.
 
Upvote 0