Another great example of religious tolerance

[Miami Marlins 2012]

An 8 year old girl in Israel has been the subject of physical and emotional abuse in an Israeli settlement because she refuses to wear all-black clothes. Even though she covers her whole body with clothes, it seems like the ultra-orthodox Jews in the settlement see this 8 year old girl as a sexual object because of her bright clothes. She has been spat on, abused, and called many obscene names. She lives in constant fear that she will be violently attacked.

A television crew that went to report the story was brutally attacked and had to flee for its life as stones rained down on them, and their vehicles were dissabled by a mob of angry religious zealots screaming for blood.

This is a perfect example of how all religions (when taken to the extremes) are capable of abuse and brutality. Granted, agnostics and atheists can also behave badly, but all that says is that humans in general can be narrow minded fools, regardless of beliefs. But religion does seem to bring out the extremes in humanity. Somehow I doubt you'd find too many atheists spitting on 8 year old girls because of the way they are dressed, or violently attacking a camera crew and calling for their deaths because they offended some imaginary deity.

According to the article, ultra-orthodox groups are growing in numbers. So look for more abuses and violence towards women and non-believers in Israel in the near future.

Israel braced for protests against treatment of women after girl, 8, is spat on by Jewish extremists | Mail Online

 

[Miami Marlins 2012]

According to the interview with zealots in this video (which is part of the story,) God says it is ok to attack women who don't cover themselves in layers of clothes, sit in the front of the bus, ride bicycles, or women who don't believe in the same style of faith they believe in.

I take it these people have never heard of the women's movement, or equal rights for women.

Between the Suns - YouTube!

 

[Svt4Him]

God says it where?

 

[Miami Marlins 2012]

God says it where?

I don't know. Don't ask me, I'm not religious. Apparently these people believe that their views are commanded by God. I have no idea where they get that stuff from because I don't really read the Bible or Torah, or whatever they call it. I'm sure religious people probably have a better idea of the material in these books.

 

[MattRose]

I'm with you in spirit on this one. In reality, when I was in working in Israel I was warned not to drive my car into areas where the street was blocked off (like I always do?). On the sabbath some ultra orthodox sects observe the biblical sabbath. They apparently will attack anyone who works (driving counts), or does something that demands a good stoning (according to the old testament). How can Israel ban Judism? Not sure what they do if these groups kill someone.

 

[Paradoxum]

Perhaps it tells us something about their frame of mind when they see an 8 year old girl as a sexual 'object'. Pedophiles much?

 

[JustMeSee]

Religion is often used to gain power, oppressiveness, and control. That is, religion is used as a tool, not that religion, in as of itself, is always the cause of these human tendencies.

I imagine studying human psychology would give a better explanation of why people seek such unfavorable objectives.

 

[Wolseley]

As I said before, the veracity of a religion or lack thereof is not dependant on the behavior of some of its adherents.

 

[DaisyDay]

Extremist of all ilks are to be feared by us moderates.

 

[mathetes123]

An 8 year old girl in Israel has been the subject of physical and emotional abuse in an Israeli settlement because she refuses to wear all-black clothes. Even though she covers her whole body with clothes, it seems like the ultra-orthodox Jews in the settlement see this 8 year old girl as a sexual object because of her bright clothes. She has been spat on, abused, and called many obscene names. She lives in constant fear that she will be violently attacked.

A television crew that went to report the story was brutally attacked and had to flee for its life as stones rained down on them, and their vehicles were dissabled by a mob of angry religious zealots screaming for blood.

This is a perfect example of how all religions (when taken to the extremes) are capable of abuse and brutality. Granted, agnostics and atheists can also behave badly, but all that says is that humans in general can be narrow minded fools, regardless of beliefs. But religion does seem to bring out the extremes in humanity. Somehow I doubt you'd find too many atheists spitting on 8 year old girls because of the way they are dressed, or violently attacking a camera crew and calling for their deaths because they offended some imaginary deity.

According to the article, ultra-orthodox groups are growing in numbers. So look for more abuses and violence towards women and non-believers in Israel in the near future.

Israel braced for protests against treatment of women after girl, 8, is spat on by Jewish extremists | Mail Online

Miami Marlins,

The common denominator to all our problems is sin. Jesus offered His answer to sin on the cross. What is your answer?

 

[Paulos23]

Miami Marlins,

The common denominator to all our problems is sin. Jesus offered His answer to sin on the cross. What is your answer?

What sin? Humans are humans, and strict aherance to religous doma is the problem here.

 

[keith99]

I'm with you in spirit on this one. In reality, when I was in working in Israel I was warned not to drive my car into areas where the street was blocked off (like I always do?). On the sabbath some ultra orthodox sects observe the biblical sabbath. They apparently will attack anyone who works (driving counts), or does something that demands a good stoning (according to the old testament). How can Israel ban Judism? Not sure what they do if these groups kill someone.

I just want to point out that there are those, Jews and otherwise, who take their faith just as seriously as these jerks do who are not rude and do not try to push it on others.


Years ago on a Saturday, the Jewish Sabath, I decided to check out the bike path next to the Orange Line in Los Angeles. The path goes through some areas with high Jewish concentrations, concentrations created in part because soem sects feel they cannot drive to temple. At one street crossing I met 2 Jewish men, who simply informed me that they had not pushed the walk button.

Simple, elegent and significant. They may well have been waiting to cross themselfs, but a very strict reading of the law may not have permitted them to push the walk button. And someone who actually took the spirit of the law seriously would not have requested another did this for them. But simply being polite enough to inform me, a gentile not bound by their law, would not be a request.

Some of the very devout remember the spirit of their law, other do not.

 

[heymikey80]

I think the issue here is whether someone claims to be following the Torah and in their perception violates it.

I don't find the "dogma is bad" view very accurate, granted that criticism of a dogmatic stance is based on suppositions about the dogma, which are equally dogmatic. Communist cultures for instance seem to be some of the most dogmatic I've ever encountered.

 

[Svt4Him]

What sin? Humans are humans, and strict aherance to religous doma is the problem here.

Again, which dogma? Just because something is done in the name of religion doesn't make it God's will nor does it make it something God has commanded.

 

[Jase]

Extremist of all ilks are to be feared by us moderates.

Yup. Extremist/Conservative varieties of religion are the issue because they cannot progress with the times, and live in a black and white bubble of fear, oppression, and the need to control.

We don't hear about Jews as often as Christianity or Islam because 1) It's extremely tiny in population and 2) The majority of Jews keep to themselves. Judaism is not about conversion or proselytizing. Haredi Jews are still stuck in an archaic mindset, however.

 

[Paulos23]

I think the issue here is whether someone claims to be following the Torah and in their perception violates it.

True, but its the difference of the color of her clothing. Makes them seam represive to me in that they don't want anyone standing out.

I don't find the "dogma is bad" view very accurate, granted that criticism of a dogmatic stance is based on suppositions about the dogma, which are equally dogmatic. Communist cultures for instance seem to be some of the most dogmatic I've ever encountered.

It is not that dogma is bad, it is strict ahearance to it without any deveation being tolerated. That I find very bad and can take harmless dogma and make it harmful.

 

[Paulos23]

Again, which dogma? Just because something is done in the name of religion doesn't make it God's will nor does it make it something God has commanded.

Almost any dogma, regardless of the source. If it is aheared to without any deveation allowed, reguardless of the situation, it can become very harmful. I am not saying all dogma is wrong, just ahearing to it without thought is.

 

[mathetes123]

What sin? Humans are humans, and strict aherance to religous doma is the problem here.

I wasn't defending the strict adherence. That is legalism. Jesus had something to say about the rules they add to the sabbath. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.

 

[heymikey80]

True, but its the difference of the color of her clothing. Makes them seam represive to me in that they don't want anyone standing out.

So you'd be opposed to Amish, who have similar issues with clothing?

I'm not even sure that's the point of this situation. In different cultures, different items are considered sexually provocative. Your culture may not; their culture does. Not long ago (and even now) different regions thought pierced ears, or makeup, or shaved armpits, or short hair, or short sleeves, were all indicative of streetwalkers. For people entering these cultures the odd treatment might seem excessive.

It is not that dogma is bad, it is strict ahearance to it without any deveation being tolerated. That I find very bad and can take harmless dogma and make it harmful.

And yet just tiny deviations for a rocket engine, and =bam=, you're forced to detonate the whole thing. Every corpus of thought has certain ranges outside which there is no toleration.

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

And yet just tiny deviations for a rocket engine, and =bam=, you're forced to detonate the whole thing. Every corpus of thought has certain ranges outside which there is no toleration.

But if you were to have researched the rocket engine and discovered that it is more effecient when using a different material or design. You would be allowed to say so, demonstrate that it works as you say it does and it may even be accepted.

Where as trying to do the same when a dogma is unthinkingly upheld such as in this story, you'd get stoned as soon as you mention you think the engine can be made better.

That is the difference.