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Another Flood Question

Justatruthseeker

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I think you must have read a different version of the twins paradox from the ones I've read (and perhaps a different version of relativity, come to that).

But hey, GPS will still work, regardless.
GPS would work without relativity.

All that is required is the satellites clocks remain synced with one another. The GPS receiver in your car has no atomic clock in it, all it cares about is the difference in time stamps from the satellites. They could be all 10 minutes ahead or 10 minutes behind, it wouldn’t matter a bit. Only the differences in the satellites clocks matter.

Now you’ll get the real reason we use relativity. Because we have no other way to ensure the satellite clocks remain synced with one another except to compare them to earth clocks.

Hence we go back to Einstein’s biggest problem, the syncing of non local clocks.

If we had a way to ensure those clocks remained synced with one another, besides comparing them to earth clocks, we wouldn’t need relativity at all. But as it stands there is no other way to ensure non local clocks are synced except to change them to match a master clock locally, so that we have a clock to compare their remaining synced too.

Don’t confuse why we need to do it, with it being a required necessity to make the GPS function.

Your receiver has no atomic clock in it, that requires it to be synced with a satellite clock. Nor is it accurate enough to remain synced with one.

No, please don’t confuse why we do it with it being a necessity except to keep satellite clocks synced with one another. That’s the only reason we sync them to earth clocks, because even Einstein could never figure out how to ensure non local clocks could be synced. Hence to this day the one way speed of light has never been measured.

But you avoided the issue.

What does the earths curved trajectory tell you about our clocks that you were willing to accept when it was only curved trajectories and clocks on airplanes? Why do you keep avoiding the logical conclusion? Yes, I know, paradigm shifts are frightening until you accept them fully.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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...What does the earths curved trajectory tell you about our clocks that you were willing to accept when it was only curved trajectories and clocks on airplanes?
Curved trajectories are accelerating trajectories, so clocks run slower for objects in circular trajectories relative to those in inertial frames, similarly for gravitational wells (equivalent to acceleration), and also for the travelling twin's periods of acceleration.

No frightening paradigm shifts there.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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If I were going to be pedantic, I should point out that Io and Europa have hardly any craters, and that the northern hemisphere of Mars is only sparsely cratered. Even Venus is lightly cratered by comparison with the other terrestrial planets; there are no giant impact basins on Venus to correspond with Mare Imbrium and Mare Orientale or with the Caloris and Hellas basins. Of course, the Earth has some very large craters, such as Vredefort, Sudbury, Chicxulub, Manicouagan, Acraman and Popigai, more than it could have accumulated within only a few million years.

The simple explanation for the Earth's comparative lack of craters and impact basins is that most of the craters on the other planets and satellites were formed during the first few hundred million years of the solar system's history (the Hadean era). After this time, Mars, Mercury and the Moon, and most of the satellites of the outer planets, subsided into a state of permanent geological inactivity, whereas the Earth remained geologically active. It is this long-lived geological activity that has destroyed most of the Earth's impact scars.
Except geological activity on a scale capable of erasing so many craters, would not leave the geological column so intact or consistent.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Curved trajectories are accelerating trajectories, so clocks run slower for objects in circular trajectories relative to those in inertial frames, similarly for gravitational wells (equivalent to acceleration), and also for the travelling twin's periods of acceleration.

No frightening paradigm shifts there.
No, curved trajectories and acceleration cause clocks to slow as long as the trajectory and acceleration last. So we agree that clocks will continue to slow as long as the acceleration or curved trajectory lasts.

So I’ll ask again, what does this tell you not only of clocks, but radioactive decay rates on earth which is undergoing this curved and accelerating trajectory 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, for according to standard beliefs the last 4+ billion years.

If clocks on board airplanes undergoing a curved trajectory continue to slow the entire time they are participating in the curved trajectory, then by logical extension.......
 
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Skreeper

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Only American freemasons have gone to the moon, in a tin can, in a film studio on the earth.

I don't know what pills you're on but I suggest not taking them anymore. They seem to affect your mental health in a negative way...
 
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inquiring mind

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If everyone agrees that a clock (time) can slow down... why is it unreasonable to think our Creator could also speed it up, or even stop and start it again (during previous periods), making scientific interpretation of the passage of time back beyond witnessed conditions and events unreliable.
 
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joshua 1 9

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GPS would work without relativity.

All that is required is the satellites clocks remain synced with one another. The GPS receiver in your car has no atomic clock in it, all it cares about is the difference in time stamps from the satellites. They could be all 10 minutes ahead or 10 minutes behind, it wouldn’t matter a bit. Only the differences in the satellites clocks matter.

Now you’ll get the real reason we use relativity. Because we have no other way to ensure the satellite clocks remain synced with one another except to compare them to earth clocks.

Hence we go back to Einstein’s biggest problem, the syncing of non local clocks.

If we had a way to ensure those clocks remained synced with one another, besides comparing them to earth clocks, we wouldn’t need relativity at all. But as it stands there is no other way to ensure non local clocks are synced except to change them to match a master clock locally, so that we have a clock to compare their remaining synced too.

Don’t confuse why we need to do it, with it being a required necessity to make the GPS function.

Your receiver has no atomic clock in it, that requires it to be synced with a satellite clock. Nor is it accurate enough to remain synced with one.

No, please don’t confuse why we do it with it being a necessity except to keep satellite clocks synced with one another. That’s the only reason we sync them to earth clocks, because even Einstein could never figure out how to ensure non local clocks could be synced. Hence to this day the one way speed of light has never been measured.

But you avoided the issue.

What does the earths curved trajectory tell you about our clocks that you were willing to accept when it was only curved trajectories and clocks on airplanes? Why do you keep avoiding the logical conclusion? Yes, I know, paradigm shifts are frightening until you accept them fully.
I remember my dad would take his watch to the watch repair man to get it adjusted so it was as accurate as possible. I would just take the back off and adjust my watch myself. It was nice when quartz watches and clocks came out. The atomic clocks are nice also. They adjust themselves.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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So I’ll ask again, what does this tell you not only of clocks, but radioactive decay rates on earth which is undergoing this curved and accelerating trajectory 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, for according to standard beliefs the last 4+ billion years.

If clocks on board airplanes undergoing a curved trajectory continue to slow the entire time they are participating in the curved trajectory, then by logical extension.......
Yes, Earth clocks run slower relative to clocks that are not rotating with the Earth or orbiting with the Earth; they also run a little slower than clocks outside Earth's gravity.

So what? Earth neither rotates nor orbits the sun fast enough to have significant time-dilation effects on measurements relative to clocks elsewhere, even over the Earth's lifetime; and as far as dating goes, radioactive decay rates on Earth are all affected to the same miniscule degree by its rotation and orbit.
 
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I'm_Sorry

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I don't know what pills you're on but I suggest not taking them anymore. They seem to affect your mental health in a negative way...

Placebo, just like the moon landings.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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If everyone agrees that a clock (time) can slow down... why is it unreasonable to think our Creator could also speed it up, or even stop and start it again (during previous periods), making scientific interpretation of the passage of time back beyond witnessed conditions and events unreliable.
Maybe, but there's no way to allow for that kind of thing. We can only measure the observable behaviour of the world and draw conclusions from those measurements. General relativity tells us how the passage of time varies according to gravity and relative motion.

I don't think it's even meaningful to talk about universal changes in the rate of time - what difference could it make without an external frame of reference to compare?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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If everyone agrees that a clock (time) can slow down... why is it unreasonable to think our Creator could also speed it up, or even stop and start it again (during previous periods), making scientific interpretation of the passage of time back beyond witnessed conditions and events unreliable.

He doesn’t need to. The earth is on that very curved trajectory they all agree slows clocks, then refuse to accept the logical outcome to our clocks and radioactive decay rates.

The problem is they are using clocks that continue to tick slower to calculate into the past where the clocks continue to tick faster the further back in time one goes. They also calculate radioactive decay rates using today’s slower rate. All this leads to incorrect answers of age.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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I remember my dad would take his watch to the watch repair man to get it adjusted so it was as accurate as possible. I would just take the back off and adjust my watch myself. It was nice when quartz watches and clocks came out. The atomic clocks are nice also. They adjust themselves.
Adjust them to what? Other clocks that are slowing as well?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Yes, Earth clocks run slower relative to clocks that are not rotating with the Earth or orbiting with the Earth; they also run a little slower than clocks outside Earth's gravity.

So what? Earth neither rotates nor orbits the sun fast enough to have significant time-dilation effects on measurements relative to clocks elsewhere, even over the Earth's lifetime; and as far as dating goes, radioactive decay rates on Earth are all affected to the same miniscule degree by its rotation and orbit.
And those decay rates are constantly slowing. People on board those airplanes with those atomic clocks that were slowing made the same claim you are, that their clocks weren’t slowing, but instead clocks on earth were.

Needless to say their clocks slowed anyways, even when they couldn’t tell it at all.

Those airplanes only flew a few hundred miles per hour faster than the earth, yet their change was noticeable over a less than 24 hour period. Not counting their speeding back up every time the planes landed to refuel.

I’m afraid your claim of speed holds no merit, as does your belief because we never observe it. The twin traveling at 1/2 of c can’t even tell his clocks changed.
 
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Maybe, but there's no way to allow for that kind of thing. We can only measure the observable behaviour of the world and draw conclusions from those measurements. General relativity tells us how the passage of time varies according to gravity and relative motion.

I don't think it's even meaningful to talk about universal changes in the rate of time - what difference could it make without an external frame of reference to compare?

Understood... but if one clock (time) can be faster or slower relative to another even in a “quantifiable” world – it just doesn’t seem that implausible to think that with God one strata of rock (for example) could “immeasurably” age compared to another given different epoch conditions. Yes, apples to oranges, but it goes back to the Genesis account being history, and not science, so from that viewpoint it is meaningful. And despite the relevance of science, it still stands in awe of God’s work.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Maybe, but there's no way to allow for that kind of thing. We can only measure the observable behaviour of the world and draw conclusions from those measurements. General relativity tells us how the passage of time varies according to gravity and relative motion.

I don't think it's even meaningful to talk about universal changes in the rate of time - what difference could it make without an external frame of reference to compare?
No way to allow for it? You know it’s happening as we speak. You therefore also know radioactive decay rates occurred faster the further back in Time we go.

But since they continue to use the rate it happens today to calculate past rates which you understand were faster, then you also understand that without time dilation correction those calculations of age are incorrect by default.

Doesn’t matter if you can’t allow for it, but to then pretend it isn’t and hasn’t happened and still preach the accuracy of age calculations.......
 
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essentialsaltes

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If everyone agrees that a clock (time) can slow down... why is it unreasonable to think our Creator could also speed it up, or even stop and start it again (during previous periods), making scientific interpretation of the passage of time back beyond witnessed conditions and events unreliable.

Even if we grant that that's exactly what happened, there is still no evidence of a 'Great Flood'.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Even if we grant that that's exactly what happened, there is still no evidence of a 'Great Flood'.

Well let’s see. So far we have geological activity capable of erasing almost all evidence on earth of massive meteor impacts, but won’t affect evidences of a flood.

We have an earths surface almost, what, 73% sedimentary layers, almost every fossil found is found in those layers, but there’s no evidence of a flood.

If 73% of the earths surface being sedimentary doesn’t tell you about a flood, I’m not sure what would.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Adjust them to what? Other clocks that are slowing as well?
Time is kept in a major city. My grandfather sold tickets at the railroad and the conductor always had the right time> The conductor would adjust his pocket watch when he was in the city that kept the time. By the time I came along we would set our watch by the TV. Esp the 6 o'clock news always came on at the exact time to the second. Now we have atomic clocks so the clock gets a signal and sets itself. Just like the computer and telephone set themselves.
 
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