Another divorce question

[The Gregorian]

edit: Both questions answered... for new questions, read below.

 

[HuntingMan]

Can you file an annulment, wait to see if she responds, then have the marriage annulled if she doesnt ?

 

[The Gregorian]

I haven't found any papers by which to file for annulment for washington state. I specifically asked about that when I coughed up the money to consult a lawyer, saying I preferred it not be a "divorce" if at all possible, something like an annulment would be good... I believe he just googled it, because that's what I did and got the same site: http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/index.cfm?fa=forms.contribute&formID=13

The "dissolution of marriage" is what he said I wanted... of course that seems like "divorce" to me, not "a declaration that the marriage wasn't valid in the first place/wasn't complete"

... so I believe the guy ripped me off.


Do you know what sort of forms one would use for an annulment or such declaration of "turns out the person who signed the ticket wasn't qualified and we found out without consummating the marriage"

It'd be like if I got a marriage certificate, but didn't file it... I'd imagine my situation is less of a "file something to counter what was already done" but a "notification that it was not done properly" .... if you got a marriage license, but didn't sign it, you don't have to file something to end the marriage at that point, right?

 

[FaithfulWife]

Hey Gregorian!

Here's what I wrote in your last post about this.

I'm not a lawyer so my advise is just based on common sense and some experience with the legal system. There in Washington State they have a thing where you can challenge the validity of a marriage. Here's a link to the proper forms and whatnot: Declaration Concerning Validity of Marriage. Here's what it says about that form "If either spouse wants to ask the court to declare that the marriage is invalid, then the person requesting the declaration should file a Petition for Declaration Concerning Validity. This petition is similar to asking the court for an annulment. Washington State does not enter an Annulment rather a Declaration Concerning Validity." That sounds like your situation, and the form is downloadable right there on that site. Now as I said, I'm not a lawyer, but usually there's a fee to file to form with the court and then you have to have her served with the papers. Usually even if you have NO IDEA where she is, they have methods that you can "have her served" like publishing in the paper, etc. She will have X number of days to respond or likewise she can do a thing where she accepts service and just agrees to it. Then the court does a "finding of facts" and will make their declaration about the validity. If they declare that it was invalid, it's just like an annulment and in fact and civil law, you were never married.

If you would like, I can write out the steps for you of declaring your marriage invalid (not a divorce but a civil annulment). If she does not sign or if she stalls--as she's doing now--you can still move forward in the process and she may be able to slow it down but she can't stop it.

Here's one thing I am kind of wondering though. Considering that I gave you this info on your first thread, I'm kinda wondering why you're just asking the same question again rather than looking at the info I gave ya? Not trying to be mean, just wondering if maybe I didn't explain it very well or what? Oh and just so you know and aren't upset by it, folks like clerks, judges, cops, and law enforcement clerks can't "give you legal advice" by telling you options, telling you what you can and can not do, telling you if they can serve her, etc. The reason they do that is not because they're being jerks, but because they are not allowed to tell you or it could be construed as "legal advice" and then you can say, "Well I did thus and such based on the cop's legal advice!" Just so you know, even * I * can not give legal advice and charge you for it or the state bar and those types of folks will get after me for practicing law without a license!! Seriously! But what I can do is tell you what I did to file my papers, what I learned about legal papers and courts in general, and help you fill in your paperwork maybe. Does that make sense?


~Faithful

 

[The Gregorian]

AHA... because at first it looked like the papers I'd already had... but that is indeed different.

The other reason I posted it again is due to the new second part. I'm gonna be in her town tomorrow and I was looking for a way to track her down so I could get her to sign and didn't know if anyone had any ideas on that topic.

 

[FaithfulWife]

Oh thanks for clarifying! Do you have an email or phone # or something? My thought is to pick a spot that's public and "in the middle of town" and say "Can we meet at McDonald's tomorrow on 1st and Main so you can sign the paper? We can keep it civil and quick, and if you'd like we could even have one last lunch". Or meet at "the park on 1st and Main after work to just sign the paper and get this over with."

If she does not sign, refuses to sign, balks at the idea, etc. there are ways to still serve her that count on your side as "service" even when you don't know her address or even if she GOT the papers! So her refusing to sign doesn't stop the process, it just slows it down. If she agrees and signs--30 days and it's done (about); if she doesn't it might be 90 days. Either way, there is an end in sight.


~Faithful

 

[The Gregorian]

Aye, I was just waiting on the joinder. I emailed her the papers, and she has them already, so "serving" her won't help... because they're not going to wait for her to sign it and give it back. I was just trying to save on legal expenses because I'm po'.

I'm just going to file them with or without her signiture and see what I can do about seeing if there's some way I can impose some of the legal fees on her since she's too busy to do any of this herself. I just wish the system were equal... I mean if I had emotionally messed her up as much as she's done to me, she'd get all sorts of alimony and "emotional distress damages and I'd be paying her half my pay check for the rest of my life... But, I'm the guy and she's the girl, I don't think I have a legal leg to stand on to even ask for her to chip in for the filing fees. That's not gonna be that much of a problem... it's just annoying to think about how unbalanced the world is.

 

[The Gregorian]

So... update:

Yesterday, I actually got her to sign the papers... and I actually have them... which is grand. I don't have time to file them today, but I should be doing that tomorrow... until then, this poses another question:

I've been told in washington, the standard filing fee is around $300... which I'm unfortunately prepared to pay, but does anyone know of anything a poor minimum wage feller can lower that at all. I don't know if there are any programs for people dangling below the poverty line or if there's no allowance for that. I have a crap-tastic job at office max making barely enough to pay for rent, let alone electricity and food, so I don't know if there's any way to ask for some sort of sliding scale or whatnot.

Anyone know of such a program?

If not, I'm still doing it, it's still worth getting done. But anywhere I can save some money makes it easier.

 

[FaithfulWife]

Gregorian,

Once again, bear in mind that I'm not a lawyer and I don't even play one on TV but there is a thing that's a motion to waive the fees. Basically, you take all the paperwork down that you need to file and on top of the file is the Motion to Waive Fees. That motion means that you ask the court to say "No Fees", and then the judge decides, "yes--pay fees" "nope--don't pay fees" or "pay fees under this schedule" and can break it up for ya according to their laws about your income and expenses and junk.

Here's where you get the Motion:

WPF UH-02.0100 Motion for Waiver of Fees (MT)
Click here for the Motion for Waver of Fees page.


In my instance my ex left me and the kids with bills 3 months behind and no job, and the courts still had me file a fee but it was like $25 a month to reply to his divorce papers. It's a whole different state but still...it's an example.

Finally, did I mention to you to make at least 3 copies of all paperwork? Yeah, originals go to the court, one for you and one for her. Don't fuss about making her copies just consider it a cost of learning how to pick a spouse.



~Faithful

 

[The Gregorian]

I know, and I appreciate your honesty. I'm not looking for definite legal advice because I know a real lawyer wouldn't say anything of value on a forum like this anyway to legally protect himself. So I can only expect non-lawyers to pitch in experiences they may have had.

... but that motion seems like it's a good idea... assuming it gets filed properly, they may lessen it at least a little bit... and every little bit I save that way is more food I can buy. Of course I'm not nearly in your situation with no job at all and a child to support... I just have a crappy minimum wage job and a dead-beat room mate to support... who leaves the air-conditioner on constantly... with the window open... ::grumble::

Anywho, it's worth giving it a shot. I very much appreciate it... of course it won't open on my computer... but I'll send it over to my work and see if I can print it up there.