• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

  • The rule regarding AI content has been updated. The rule now rules as follows:

    Be sure to credit AI when copying and pasting AI sources. Link to the site of the AI search, just like linking to an article.

Another Case for Evolution Along with Creation

newton3005

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2019
747
197
62
newburgh
✟157,251.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There are two ways of looking at the Bible...We either accept it at its face, or we make inferences of things that are not mentioned in the Bible. The case for the latter might be found in 2 Timothy 3:16 which says “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...” On that basis, each Verse can stand out on its own, or can be grouped in context with other verses. To wit, is it necessary to post the entire Bible on the front lawn of the grounds of a government building in order to post the Ten Commandments so the message of those Commandments can come across? Or is it necessary to recite all Ten Commandments in order to emphasize one Commandment which says “Thou shalt not commit murder?” Perhaps the first two Commandments are necessary to be added, depending on whom you’re communicating with.

Regarding the support for making inferences, what does the Scriptures say? God in Isaiah 1:18 invites us to reason with Him. When we reason, we usually bring in things that are beyond what is in front of us, based on our knowledge of the world. Isaiah 55:8 says that our thoughts are not God’s thoughts. This may imply that not all God’s thoughts are reflected in the Scriptures. And the last Verse of the Book of John, though referring to Lord Jesus, which says that there are things that Jesus did which can fill many books beyond what is stated in the Bible, infers that there could be other happenings that aren’t mentioned in the Bible. And Hebrews 6:1-3 asks that we go beyond the “elementary doctrine of Christ.” Where in the Bible does it say we can throw off what God said? As a qualifier, Verse 3 says we can go beyond the “elementary doctrine of Christ” IF GOD PERMITS US TO, inviting that possibility even though it’s not stated in the Bible as to whether God would so permit us.

That leaves open the possibility that God may permit us to do other things, such as, perhaps, considering evolution in how Adam and Eve’s son Cain is able to produce the offspring mentioned in Genesis 4:17-19. If you read Genesis as it pertains to Cain’s offspring, you can see there is a gap between Genesis 4:1 in which Cain is born to Adam and Eve, and Genesis 4:17-19 in which Cain produces offspring who in turn produce THEIR offspring. I mean, how was Cain able to produce offspring without the help of a woman? Perhaps an orthodox creationist might say, well, God must’ve taken a rib out of Cain to produce a woman. But it seems that God would have to take ribs out of a lot of males before there’s enough women to produce the succeeding generations described in Genesis!

So at this point, all things considered, I bring in the possibility that in addition to God’s creation of Adam and Eve, which the Bible says were created in God’s image, there were other men and women on earth whom God did not create. Skeletons of prehistoric man were found, that don’t resemble those of modern man. It is presumed that modern man was created in God’s Image, so prehistoric man, with a different skeletal structure, was not. How did prehistoric man come about? Seems the only acceptable answer under God is that he evolved from the creatures that God created. There is evidence to indicate that Neanderthal Man, who was not created in God’s image, intermingled with modern man at some point, so it may be possible that a similar type of intermingling occurred between Cain and those whom God did not directly create.

Why bring this subject up? 2 verses in Genesis command us to do so. God in Genesis 1:28 commands Adam to be fruitful. Genesis 2:15 says that God put Adam in the Garden of Eden to work it. Between the two verses, in addition to our knowing that Adam ate from the Tree of Good and Evil, God is offering the world to Adam to prosper in. I tell you that that prosperity includes the pursuit of knowledge, to the extent, under God, that it would help us to prosper. And God’s Commandment in Genesis 1:27 to also multiply, implies that God wants succeeding generations of the man and woman He created, to exist. If the pursuit of certain knowledge helps us to make succeeding generations, then we should use such knowledge.

We don’t know for sure when knowledge is needed. A simple question as to why tomatoes are red when they’re ripe, can yield a volume of answers, some of which may come in handy in helping us to prosper. At some point, someone may have asked how birds fly, at a time when the idea of man flying like the birds never entered man’s thinking, but eventually the answer led to the invention of the airplane.

Schools across the U.S. are being told not to teach certain things. Perhaps within those things that schools are being told not to teach, are answers that can help mankind to continue to exist, but like with the question of how birds fly, isn’t readily apparent at the moment.
 

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,058
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,968.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
On that basis, each Verse can stand out on its own, or can be grouped in context with other verses. To wit, is it necessary to post the entire Bible on the front lawn of the grounds of a government building in order to post the Ten Commandments so the message of those Commandments can come across? Or is it necessary to recite all Ten Commandments in order to emphasize one Commandment which says “Thou shalt not commit murder?” Perhaps the first two Commandments are necessary to be added, depending on whom you’re communicating with

Your premise failed right there. Each verse cannot stand on its own. Neither can the Ten Commandments. There always needs to be context for any verse to be properly understood.
 
Upvote 0

sandman

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2003
2,465
1,658
MI
✟136,547.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
Politics
US-Constitution
Biblically I can show that whatever it was that gave life to prehistoric or Neanderthal Man and animals was not the same as what gives us life.

I can't prove biblically that Adam and Eve had other kids, including others with 2 X chromosomes ...(that would be a woman, for those of you who are not biologist.) In which the sons would marry and have other children. For us today.... that is not only bizarre, but also illegal ....However choices were limited and blood was much more pure back then....as evidenced by the longevity of those in that time.
 
Upvote 0

Rachel20

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2020
1,954
1,443
STX
✟73,109.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
However choices were limited and blood was much more pure back then....as evidenced by the longevity of those in that time.

Possibly true, combined with earlier environmental conditions more condusive to life. Genetic entropy is itself an argument against ToE
 
Upvote 0

newton3005

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2019
747
197
62
newburgh
✟157,251.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Your premise failed right there. Each verse cannot stand on its own. Neither can the Ten Commandments. There always needs to be context for any verse to be properly understood.

***Really?

When Jesus was asked about his position concerning whether it's lawful for a man to divorce his wife in Matthew 19:3, his response in Verses 5 is what it says in Genesis 2:24. He used that one Verse to justify that it is not lawful; he didn't recite other Verses as well, beyond quoting in Verse 4 what is says in Genesis 1:27.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,058
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,968.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
***Really?

When Jesus was asked about his position concerning whether it's lawful for a man to divorce his wife in Matthew 19:3, his response in Verses 5 is what it says in Genesis 2:24. He used that one Verse to justify that it is not lawful; he didn't recite other Verses as well, beyond quoting in Verse 4 what is says in Genesis 1:27.
I guess a man cannot divorce his wife for any reason then.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
11,315
6,586
Utah
✟899,079.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
There are two ways of looking at the Bible...We either accept it at its face, or we make inferences of things that are not mentioned in the Bible. The case for the latter might be found in 2 Timothy 3:16 which says “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...” On that basis, each Verse can stand out on its own, or can be grouped in context with other verses. To wit, is it necessary to post the entire Bible on the front lawn of the grounds of a government building in order to post the Ten Commandments so the message of those Commandments can come across? Or is it necessary to recite all Ten Commandments in order to emphasize one Commandment which says “Thou shalt not commit murder?” Perhaps the first two Commandments are necessary to be added, depending on whom you’re communicating with.

Regarding the support for making inferences, what does the Scriptures say? God in Isaiah 1:18 invites us to reason with Him. When we reason, we usually bring in things that are beyond what is in front of us, based on our knowledge of the world. Isaiah 55:8 says that our thoughts are not God’s thoughts. This may imply that not all God’s thoughts are reflected in the Scriptures. And the last Verse of the Book of John, though referring to Lord Jesus, which says that there are things that Jesus did which can fill many books beyond what is stated in the Bible, infers that there could be other happenings that aren’t mentioned in the Bible. And Hebrews 6:1-3 asks that we go beyond the “elementary doctrine of Christ.” Where in the Bible does it say we can throw off what God said? As a qualifier, Verse 3 says we can go beyond the “elementary doctrine of Christ” IF GOD PERMITS US TO, inviting that possibility even though it’s not stated in the Bible as to whether God would so permit us.

That leaves open the possibility that God may permit us to do other things, such as, perhaps, considering evolution in how Adam and Eve’s son Cain is able to produce the offspring mentioned in Genesis 4:17-19. If you read Genesis as it pertains to Cain’s offspring, you can see there is a gap between Genesis 4:1 in which Cain is born to Adam and Eve, and Genesis 4:17-19 in which Cain produces offspring who in turn produce THEIR offspring. I mean, how was Cain able to produce offspring without the help of a woman? Perhaps an orthodox creationist might say, well, God must’ve taken a rib out of Cain to produce a woman. But it seems that God would have to take ribs out of a lot of males before there’s enough women to produce the succeeding generations described in Genesis!

So at this point, all things considered, I bring in the possibility that in addition to God’s creation of Adam and Eve, which the Bible says were created in God’s image, there were other men and women on earth whom God did not create. Skeletons of prehistoric man were found, that don’t resemble those of modern man. It is presumed that modern man was created in God’s Image, so prehistoric man, with a different skeletal structure, was not. How did prehistoric man come about? Seems the only acceptable answer under God is that he evolved from the creatures that God created. There is evidence to indicate that Neanderthal Man, who was not created in God’s image, intermingled with modern man at some point, so it may be possible that a similar type of intermingling occurred between Cain and those whom God did not directly create.

Why bring this subject up? 2 verses in Genesis command us to do so. God in Genesis 1:28 commands Adam to be fruitful. Genesis 2:15 says that God put Adam in the Garden of Eden to work it. Between the two verses, in addition to our knowing that Adam ate from the Tree of Good and Evil, God is offering the world to Adam to prosper in. I tell you that that prosperity includes the pursuit of knowledge, to the extent, under God, that it would help us to prosper. And God’s Commandment in Genesis 1:27 to also multiply, implies that God wants succeeding generations of the man and woman He created, to exist. If the pursuit of certain knowledge helps us to make succeeding generations, then we should use such knowledge.

We don’t know for sure when knowledge is needed. A simple question as to why tomatoes are red when they’re ripe, can yield a volume of answers, some of which may come in handy in helping us to prosper. At some point, someone may have asked how birds fly, at a time when the idea of man flying like the birds never entered man’s thinking, but eventually the answer led to the invention of the airplane.

Schools across the U.S. are being told not to teach certain things. Perhaps within those things that schools are being told not to teach, are answers that can help mankind to continue to exist, but like with the question of how birds fly, isn’t readily apparent at the moment.

Adam and Eve had other children ..... daughters

Genesis 5:3 sheds light on the descendants of Adam and Eve beyond Seth in quick summary,

3When Adam was 130 years old, he had a son in his own likeness, after his own image; and he named him Seth. 4And after he had become the father of Seth, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5So Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There are two ways of looking at the Bible...We either accept it at its face, or we make inferences of things that are not mentioned in the Bible. The case for the latter might be found in 2 Timothy 3:16 which says “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...” On that basis, each Verse can stand out on its own, or can be grouped in context with other verses.

That seems like an important concept. Do two (2) or three (3) authors agree on that statement?

“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
Matt. 18:19–20.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Biblically I can show that whatever it was that gave life to prehistoric or Neanderthal Man and animals was not the same as what gives us life.

I can't prove biblically that Adam and Eve had other kids, including others with 2 X chromosomes ...(that would be a woman, for those of you who are not biologist.) In which the sons would marry and have other children. For us today.... that is not only bizarre, but also illegal ....However choices were limited and blood was much more pure back then....as evidenced by the longevity of those in that time.

Or Adam was the first of all humans to be made in the image of God. Not specifically the first human.

Adam is considered the first Christ, and Christ was not a first creation, biologically.
 
  • Like
Reactions: newton3005
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟291,297.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
One thing is for certain; no one will truly come to an understanding in God's Holy Writ by constantly skipping around and pulling out one Bible verse here, and a Bible verse there. Doing that means one can make The Bible say just whatever they want it to say, and that is a work of deception no different than what the devil did in tempting Jesus in Luke 4 (Oh yeah, many of you don't have a KJV Bible anymore, so you don't have what the devil added to his quote of Psalms 91:11-12 in tempting Lord Jesus).
 
Upvote 0