Another Bad Marriage Question

[ColoRaydo]

I am well aware that God hates divorce. I know the scriptures to back it up with adultery as a valid reason to terminate a marriage.

How about this: My friend is in a marriage where the wife is basically a non believer. She literally steals money from him. When she makes money she hides it. She disrespects him in front of their children and allows them to do the same. He got into a car accident and she drove by him but didn’t stop because she “had to take her mom to the mall.” She lies constantly as well. He does not believe (nor do I) that she has ever committed adultery. I’ve known them most of my life.

If you were in this situation, what would you do? Don’t bother with quoting scripture to her or taking her to see the pastor - she doesn’t care what it or he says.

Seriously, what would you do? This is real stuff that most of us have never dealt with. I would really like to hear from someone who has “been there”, rather than someone who has never been married quoting scripture.

 

[section9+1]

He should insist on a long, long talk with her for the sake of their marriage. If that doesn't work, plan on a long separation. He doesn't owe her his devotion if she doesn't want it.

 

[Lost4words]

I am well aware that God hates divorce. I know the scriptures to back it up with adultery as a valid reason to terminate a marriage.

How about this: My friend is in a marriage where the wife is basically a non believer. She literally steals money from him. When she makes money she hides it. She disrespects him in front of their children and allows them to do the same. He got into a car accident and she drove by him but didn’t stop because she “had to take her mom to the mall.” She lies constantly as well. He does not believe (nor do I) that she has ever committed adultery. I’ve known them most of my life.

If you were in this situation, what would you do? Don’t bother with quoting scripture to her or taking her to see the pastor - she doesn’t care what it or he says.

Seriously, what would you do? This is real stuff that most of us have never dealt with. I would really like to hear from someone who has “been there”, rather than someone who has never been married quoting scripture.

You should seek marriage councilling friend

 

[Danielwright2311]

To be a real Christain you have to let other use you, abuse you and hate you, but still love them and forgive them.

If there is no real good example of a Christian then there is no change.

One day, it might not be soon, if he forgives her every day and shows a good role model and good example then she will change for the better.

 

[bcbsr]

I am well aware that God hates divorce. I know the scriptures to back it up with adultery as a valid reason to terminate a marriage.

How about this: My friend is in a marriage where the wife is basically a non believer. She literally steals money from him. When she makes money she hides it. She disrespects him in front of their children and allows them to do the same. He got into a car accident and she drove by him but didn’t stop because she “had to take her mom to the mall.” She lies constantly as well. He does not believe (nor do I) that she has ever committed adultery. I’ve known them most of my life.

If you were in this situation, what would you do? Don’t bother with quoting scripture to her or taking her to see the pastor - she doesn’t care what it or he says.

Seriously, what would you do? This is real stuff that most of us have never dealt with. I would really like to hear from someone who has “been there”, rather than someone who has never been married quoting scripture.

Actually there are many legitimate reasons to get divorced. What's forbidden is remarriage after divorces seeing as divorce doesn't nullify a legitimate marriage. Even God got divorced.

Jer 3:8 "I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries."

For the Christian, divorce is treated as a separation.

1Cor 5:11 "I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat."

I take that as applying to marriages as well. So if the spouse claims to be a "Christian" but behaves in such a manner, separation may be called for. There may be more toleration for a non-Christian spouse though, but there are limits.

1Cor 7:15 "But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace."

For more on the subject see Biblical Concepts of Marriage

 

[SkyWriting]

Actually there are many legitimate reasons to get divorced. What's forbidden is remarriage after divorces seeing as divorce doesn't nullify a legitimate marriage.

Romans 8:7
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete.
And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[bcbsr]

Romans 8:7
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete.
And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Mark 10:11,12 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Rom 7:2-3 "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man."

1Cor 7:39 A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives.

Luke 16:18b The man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

 

[SkyWriting]

Mark 10:11,12 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Jesus did not say any of those things.

Romans 7:6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.


2 Corinthians 3:7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete.
And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Granted, the "Chief of all sinners" still hung on to some of the old ways with his persecution of particular sinners and the old way of accounting big sins and little sins.

 

[bcbsr]

Jesus did not say any of those things.
.

You're claiming that Jesus did not say, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." Mark 10:11,12

Open up your Bible to Mark 10:11,12, and tell me who said it.

Furthermore you're rejecting what Paul says simply on the basis that Jesus did not say what Paul said, whereas in fact Paul's teachings are Jesus' teachings.

[Staff edit].

 

[Paidiske]

MOD HAT ON
This thread has had a small clean.
May I remind you of these portions of CF's rules:​

• Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed.​
• Challenging Paul's position as an Apostle of Jesus Christ who (although not one of the original twelve) was sent forth by Christ after his conversion [Acts 9:15-16], or arguing against the inclusion of Paul's writings in the New Testament canon, is not allowed in any "Christians Only" forums (including the Controversial Christian Theology forum).​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Sister in Christ]

I am well aware that God hates divorce. I know the scriptures to back it up with adultery as a valid reason to terminate a marriage.

How about this: My friend is in a marriage where the wife is basically a non believer. She literally steals money from him. When she makes money she hides it. She disrespects him in front of their children and allows them to do the same. He got into a car accident and she drove by him but didn’t stop because she “had to take her mom to the mall.” She lies constantly as well. He does not believe (nor do I) that she has ever committed adultery. I’ve known them most of my life.

If you were in this situation, what would you do? Don’t bother with quoting scripture to her or taking her to see the pastor - she doesn’t care what it or he says.

Seriously, what would you do? This is real stuff that most of us have never dealt with. I would really like to hear from someone who has “been there”, rather than someone who has never been married quoting scripture.

 

[Sister in Christ]

Hi there, I am a follower of Jesus and I am now divorced but my husband at the time believed in Jesus ( as so does the devil) but was walking in darkness. I needed light at the time on my marriage as it was a living Hell. I cryed out to God for help and he lead me to a man by the name of Michael Chriswell. He has a You Tube channel and can also be found on his website relentlessheart.com. He too was in a very destructive marriage that God delivered him from. I highly recommend him as he is a true man of God and I know with his help your friend find the answers he is looking for.
I hope this helps hun.
Check out his latest video "God hates divorce but he hates some marriges even more" pt 1 and 2

 

[Shaun Kennedy]

As someone who has been there, you have to take a look at why she seems to be in the relationship. In my case, I had to separate our money, and when she got desperate, then she was willing to start negotiating in good faith. Remember that phrases like, "I don't have to..." go both ways.

 

[SwordmanJr]

Seriously, what would you do? This is real stuff that most of us have never dealt with. I would really like to hear from someone who has “been there”, rather than someone who has never been married quoting scripture.

So, what this really boils down to is that they are married legally, but not in accordance with God's definition Genesis 2. She obviously refuses to even recognize his headship over her as the Lord has commanded. She therefore has adulterated herself (by way of heart rather than sex) away from her husband.

Now, to make sure it is understood what I'm saying: God spoke to Israel and Judah many times about their adulteries that had nothing to do with sex. The heart enters into the realm of adultery in many ways, and a woman who refuses to be a wife to her husband, what else is she besides just using him as a support and for sex. They may as well be shacking up.

This situation described herein proves that the so-called "marriage license" from City Hall is a totally meaningless piece of paper except for taxation and inheritance purposes. A marriage is not ever made because of the inclusion of that piece of paper. A marriage is a what exists within the heart. She clearly is not married to that man in her heart. They are therefore basically fornicators when having sex together. It's a relationship of convenience (to her), not a marriage. She is therefore an adulterous woman by having alienated herself from God from the get-go, and then what should be her husband. She has adulterated herself with the world and its values.....and lack thereof.

He should take this up with the Lord, and the man should therefore get counsel and confirmation from his Creator to get the legal divorce, and get away from a woman who is only using him. If he thinks he can change her heart, then go for it. However, the likelihood of a heart change sounds like a far-fetched possibility. It's totally up to him as to if he wants to continue living like they are shacked up, because they obviously are not married since it takes TWO hearts united together for there to be a marriage. His heart being the only one in it for marriage means that he is basically a single man with a live-in.

 

[Paidiske]

I utterly refute the idea that a marriage which isn't in the headship-submission model is automatically adulterous. There are many faithful, committed egalitarian marriages.

 

[SwordmanJr]

I utterly refute the idea that a marriage which isn't in the headship-submission model is automatically adulterous. There are many faithful, committed egalitarian marriages.

Her adultery, as I had qualified throughout the entirety of my message, was/is based upon MORE than just the lack of recognition of headship. Do you pull these stunts on everybody...pulling one or two items out of the entire context as if the other person's whole argument was based only upon that one or two items? If you would simply do the right thing by taking the holistic context into consideration, the headship issue was only one of plural indicators I addressed as the reasoning among several items as backing behind an analysis for the adultery in her heart.

Egalitarianism? Well, I never did argue that such relationship models never work in the arena of faithfulness and commitment. I also never said mankind did not have the freedom to concoct all manner of models for their interrelationships. We all have the capacity to get along and accept whatever life he or she have chosen for self.

What you failed to address is what I had fingered as the model against which I measured the situation. If you have problems with that model, the you don't have a problem with me personally. Your problem is with your Creator, so I would suggest you take that up with Him, against whom you would soon find yourself to be utterly out-classed. If you're going to call into question the ultimately high level voracity of the Bible, there again, you will find yourself at odds with a set of writings against which you have little to no chance for proving anything to the negative. I am well versed in the Hebrew and Greek texts, and have more than 40 years of deep study behind me to have become well grounded. I'm not saying that I'm better than others around here, but I'm also not a novice so easily bullied by the use of misrepresentations of my words and the words recorded in the Bible.

 

[Paidiske]

I didn't mean to misrepresent your words; but I did mean to take issue with what seemed to be your fundamental premise that a woman who isn't submissive is somehow adulterous or "using" her husband, and deserving of divorce.

But stating my point of view, while making absolutely no personal attacks on you, is hardly bullying. This is a debate forum, after all.

 

[SwordmanJr]

I didn't mean to misrepresent your words; but I did mean to take issue with what seemed to be your fundamental premise that a woman who isn't submissive is somehow adulterous or "using" her husband, and deserving of divorce.

I would agree that some men don't want to be the head of their wives as Christ is the Head of the Church. Some men are happy with variations in the family leadership construct. That is what it is. What is stated in scripture is the foundational objective measure from which I derive my analysis, so yes, I used the headship as a part of my overall analysis, but never the totality of it all because, as you and I have agreed in principle, there are other variations that do work for some people.

But stating my point of view, while making absolutely no personal attacks on you, is hardly bullying. This is a debate forum, after all.

Now, when it comes to taking another's words and applying force against the other's conclusion after failing to take into account ALL the premises provided, as if the one you picked were the sole reasoning, that has every appearance of a bullying tactic. Had you said that you take issue with the inclusion of ONE of my premises used in my conclusion, I would have had no problem with that, but you totally misrepresented my post by injecting into my conclusion the idea that I had built it entirely or mostly upon that one item. Misrepresentation does not have to include ad hominem for it to be a misguided, combative attack. Rather than a frontal attack like ad hominem against character, it's more like a groin punch in boxing when hitting below the belt. It's like wearing brass knuckles inside the gloves.

Get my meaning?

 

[Paidiske]

In responding to someone's argument, it's quite valid to discuss one premise at a time (or even only the premise one is interested in or takes issue with). I reject the idea that this is some kind of misrepresentation or personal attack.

 

[SwordmanJr]

In responding to someone's argument, it's quite valid to discuss one premise at a time (or even only the premise one is interested in or takes issue with). I reject the idea that this is some kind of misrepresentation or personal attack.

Wow. You still don't get it?

Ok, conversationally speaking, I'll show you point-blank:

You said, "I utterly refute the idea that a marriage which isn't in the headship-submission model is automatically adulterous."

In that one sentence, you addressed only ONE of my premises as the basis upon which I allegedly founded my conclusion, namely that marriage is not real unless there is "headship-submission," which, then, is what makes someone "automatically adulterous." What more evidence is necessary? Am I getting this through more clearly now?

I don't want to make this a blown-out-of-proportion issue, but denying the obvious that I have quoted verbatim, that has me wondering if there's some sort of agenda here that I'm missing. If there is, then please enlighten me. I'd like to get in on the joke and laugh along.