Anointing

[JonV]

Holy Scripture… the founding bedrock of every Christian faith. EVERYTHING taught in our churches is based, or should be based, on Scripture. In order to accept and adopt this teaching, we need to accept that the Bible is, beyond any shadow of a doubt, true, correct and accurate in EVERY way. In short we need to accept that every word recorded in this book is written by God through the hands of man.



Christianity labels this as being anointed. Without the unshakable acceptance that Scripture is anointed there is absolutely no basis for any of our beliefs, teachings or rituals. Without an acceptance of the anointing of Scripture there is absolutely no reason to accept that Jesus existed as man and as God, and was sacrificed and resurrected so that mankind can ultimately benefit in this ongoing game of cosmic chess between God and his wayward ark angel Satan. A game of Monopoly where the stakes remain the real estate of the earth and the souls of the pawns infesting it. Without an acceptance of the anointing of Scripture, Sunday mornings become a simple little get-together with, mostly, friendly people. Have a little conversation, drink a little wine, but nothing coming from the platform would have any relevance.



So. why then does our Christian community not accept the ENTIRE Bible as being anointed? We say we do and we teach that we do but experience has shown that we certainly do not walk that walk. How can we accept that the Messianic message of the Bible is true but claim that other ‘recommendations’ listed there are outdated, irrelevant or even comic relief. For example, just try telling our post modern church ladies that they should be covering their heads before walking into a sanctuary.



There are so many Biblical points that are so far removed from my reality that it is even difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that I may possibly be “Saved”. The Bible calls this being lukewarm and says we will be spewed from God’s mouth… and in a spewing distance competition I’m sure I will fly further then anyone. I still think that if the Rapture happened while we were in church one morning that I would open my eyes and find myself alone.



So what is missing from this equation? Well Catholics would say it is the Sacraments while Evangelical Christians would say it was God’s Grace.



Ah yes, the Grace of God. The ultimate Pentecostal Band-Aid. We don’t need to be too legalistic because we are saved through the “Grace of God”. We don’t need to be too religious because the “Grace of God” sees our hearts and souls and knows what is really in there.



I’m not an expert but I believe we may have pushed that envelop a little far. Does the Grace of God have limitations? There is a salt pillar on the outskirts of Gomorrah that would claim it does.



I was taught that every Christian goes through a period of doubt and that this step of self evaluation is necessary in order to continue our walk as stronger and seasoned followers of the Christian faith. This is where I am standing now; struggling with whether or not I can accept the anointing of the Bible. Not accepting it seems easy. Just walk away and accept Christianity as a perfectly good concept of ‘niceness’ – right up there with other mystical beliefs like Buddhism and Wicca. The problem with this is that it does not answer the question of the post death continuation of this particular self aware soul… and I happen to like my self aware soul and would like to have it continue, in a nice comfortable setting after my death.



Or I can take a leap of faith and accept the anointing of Holy Scripture and continue on my walk as a Christian, secure in the knowledge that after my death I will be with God in Heaven forever worshiping and praising Him, which, incidentally, still sounds like a dreadfully boring way to spend a couple of days much less and eternity. The problem with this particular concept is that the steps needed to ensure that I do not get ‘spewed’ too far seem insurmountable.

 

[ebia]

Holy Scripture… the founding bedrock of every Christian faith.

No. Christ is.

And Christ is the anointed one - the messiah.

Your post is essentially basphemous.

 

[soblessed53]

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No. Christ is.

And Christ is the anointed one - the messiah.

Your post is essentially basphemous.

As much as I love the scriptures,I have to agree here,seems the OP kinda forgot that it is Jesus not the book.

 

[JonV]

blasphemous??? Kind of a harsh position to take - even without the 'L'.

There is nothing blasphemous with discussing doubts and struggles and true feelings. That is the only way to grow spiritually. I guess just turning off your mind and being fed Christian platitudes may work for a few more feeble minded believers but I would much rather anchor my ship with Christians who have come to their spiritual senses through struggle.

Of course Jesus is the reason for the faith - that was not my point. My point was that the doctorines we follow as Christians are outlined in the Bible -- Without the Bible we would not have the road map to follow in order to be Christians. In order to 'sell' what is in the Bible church leaders agree that the book is anointed -- meaning written by man but guided by God. My point was simply that as Christians we conveniently accept what we want as being God's law while the rest is simply filler.

Every Christian goeas through seasons of doubt - even anger agaisnt God. Why sugar coat these feelings - You are not hidding them from God so why not discuss them and find a resolution to work through them.l

blasphemous!!!! give me a break

Always with love

jon

 

[MoodyBlue]

Jon - I also found the "blasphemous" remark out of line. The road is not easy, but rest assured you are not alone with the questions you ask and the answers you seek. Good luck with your quest! Peace, MoodyBlue

 

[ebia]

blasphemous??? Kind of a harsh position to take - even without the 'L'.

There is nothing blasphemous with discussing doubts and struggles and true feelings. That is the only way to grow spiritually. I guess just turning off your mind and being fed Christian platitudes may work for a few more feeble minded believers but I would much rather anchor my ship with Christians who have come to their spiritual senses through struggle.

No problem with any of that, and platitudes certainly are not my style.

Of course Jesus is the reason for the faith - that was not my point. My point was that the doctorines we follow as Christians are outlined in the Bible -- Without the Bible we would not have the road map to follow in order to be Christians.

The bible is useful, but not essential. Many have come to faith, and built a faith, without it. Most notably the first Christians. It's what God teaches us through it that is important, not the book itself.

In order to 'sell' what is in the Bible church leaders agree that the book is anointed --

Since when? Perhaps you could point them out because I never heard anyone, let alone a church leader, call it that.
Annointed is virtually a translation of Messiah (hebrew) and Christ (greek), which literally mean Annointed One. A title for the Son of God alone. If you call the bible Annointed you are effectively calling it Christ or The Messiah. I hope you can see why that is inappropriate.

meaning written by man but guided by God.

The usual word we use for that is inspired.

Every Christian goeas through seasons of doubt - even anger agaisnt God. Why sugar coat these feelings - You are not hidding them from God so why not discuss them and find a resolution to work through them.

Absolutely. The psalms are full of it.

 

[JonV]

The Pentecostal's official stand on scripture is that it is annointed. This is also a word that get's thrown around alot - - for example "The music during today's service was annointed"

I believe that this referes to being Christ Filled

 

[amx]

My husband used to be Pentecostal. He did not confide to me that he was going through a period of extreme doubt until after we were married. I remember him asking me, "so I've got my fire insurance why do I need to do anything else?" The first thing I had him do was read and discuss Evidence That Demands a Verdict. That's the first thing you should do. It's clear from your post that you don't understand what makes our faith and our God so unique. There is none like Him. This book will help you see that. It was written by Josh McDowell, a lawyer, who set out to disprove the validity of the Bible but instead proved to himself and countless others that the Bible is a living thing and God is alive and well. I do believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. I know some of the instructions in it are specific to a momentary place in time. For instance, on passover I don't place lambs blood over the door of my house using a mint sprig in order to ward off the angel of death.
I would love it if it was part of our regular religious practice for women to cover their heads. I like hats and I think they are very stylish. The problem is that I try to take Paul literally to "pray without ceasing" so I am constantly in God's presence. It would be pretty inconvenient to wear a hat whenever I am in His presence, especially if I am taking a shower.
The last thing I would like to address is your view of eternity, which is very Hollywood. We all know how informed they are about spiritual things.
Jon, think about this. God created the universe and every good thing in it. Every good idea man ever had is a gift from the living God. He gave us sunrises, chocolate, sex, interesting people to talk to, and other blessings too numerous to mention. Life is good! He meant for it to be. He knows you and knows what it would take to keep you happy. He always keeps His promises. He promised heaven would be infinitely better than life. Heaven is going to be a good natured riot in gorgeous settings.

 

[ebia]

The first thing I had him do was read and discuss Evidence That Demands a Verdict. That's the first thing you should do. It's clear from your post that you don't understand what makes our faith and our God so unique. There is none like Him. This book will help you see that. It was written by Josh McDowell, a lawyer, who set out to disprove the validity of the Bible but instead proved to himself and countless others that the Bible is a living thing and God is alive and well.

I have to say that I don't find McDowell's writing helpful at all. Perhaps it's because he addresses things as a lawyer - presenting his side of the case rather than exploring the truth, but I find much of it rather superficial.

 

[amx]

I have to say that I don't find McDowell's writing helpful at all. Perhaps it's because he addresses things as a lawyer - presenting his side of the case rather than exploring the truth, but I find much of it rather superficial.

So if you are reading a book about water you want the one that would present both sides of the argument. The one that says water is both dry and wet.
He is not trying to get a degree in comparative religion he is trying to find his way back. Saying this book is superficial is like saying a road map is superficial. Mcdowell is a road sign that will get him pointed in the right direction. His work is accurate and well researched. The nice thing about this book is it gives many other sources that demonstrate the validity of the word.

 

[ebia]

Perhaps I was a bit harsh 1st time around, but equating the bible with Christ (for too common on CF) tends to wind me up. So, starting again (hopefully on a calmer note):

Holy Scripture… the founding bedrock of every Christian faith. EVERYTHING taught in our churches is based, or should be based, on Scripture. In order to accept and adopt this teaching, we need to accept that the Bible is, beyond any shadow of a doubt, true, correct and accurate in EVERY way. In short we need to accept that every word recorded in this book is written by God through the hands of man.

The bible is not the bedrock of faith. A faith built on the true bedrock (Christ) doesn't need to worry if the bible, which is nothing more than a means to explore that faith, is a bit shaky.

Without the unshakable acceptance that Scripture is anointed there is absolutely no basis for any of our beliefs, teachings or rituals.

On the contrary, the bible is useful because of our beliefs. Not the other way around.

Without an acceptance of the anointing of Scripture there is absolutely no reason to accept that Jesus existed as man and as God, and was sacrificed and resurrected so that mankind can ultimately benefit in this ongoing game of cosmic chess between God and his wayward ark angel Satan. A game of Monopoly where the stakes remain the real estate of the earth and the souls of the pawns infesting it. Without an acceptance of the anointing of Scripture, Sunday mornings become a simple little get-together with, mostly, friendly people. Have a little conversation, drink a little wine, but nothing coming from the platform would have any relevance.

Again, this is simply not true. All of this has meaning so long as the Christ is true. It's the message that matters not one of the messengers.

So. why then does our Christian community not accept the ENTIRE Bible as being anointed? We say we do and we teach that we do but experience has shown that we certainly do not walk that walk. How can we accept that the Messianic message of the Bible is true but claim that other ‘recommendations’ listed there are outdated, irrelevant or even comic relief. For example, just try telling our post modern church ladies that they should be covering their heads before walking into a sanctuary.

Again, this confuses the message - Christ's revelation - with the messenger - the bible.

There are so many Biblical points that are so far removed from my reality that it is even difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that I may possibly be “Saved”. The Bible calls this being lukewarm and says we will be spewed from God’s mouth…

No it doesn't. Asking questions, struggling and exploring faith, is entirely biblical as you pointed out yourself earlier. It is the primary theme of many of the psalms. It's when you are certain that you know the truth and stop exploring that you should be worried.

So what is missing from this equation? Well Catholics would say it is the Sacraments while Evangelical Christians would say it was God’s Grace.

I'm not so sure anything is missing.

I was taught that every Christian goes through a period of doubt and that this step of self evaluation is necessary in order to continue our walk as stronger and seasoned followers of the Christian faith. This is where I am standing now; struggling with whether or not I can accept the anointing of the Bible. Not accepting it seems easy. Just walk away and accept Christianity as a perfectly good concept of ‘niceness’ – right up there with other mystical beliefs like Buddhism and Wicca.

I tried that just after university and (for me) it just didn't work. God is more stubborn than I am it seems.

The problem with this is that it does not answer the question of the post death continuation of this particular self aware soul… and I happen to like my self aware soul and would like to have it continue, in a nice comfortable setting after my death.

I'm not convinced that is the right reason for believing. In fact, I rather think it is the second worst (the worst being the opposite - to avoid hell). Perhaps it might benefit to lay that aside and explore faith for it's own sake - for the change it can work in you.

The problem with this particular concept is that the steps needed to ensure that I do not get ‘spewed’ too far seem insurmountable.

Take the steps you can. You might find that they are actually the right ones to encounter God and allow him to call you onwards to wherever he wants you to go. Don't get hung up on what you can't swallow - it might turn out that you don't need to swallow it at all.

 

[ebia]

So if you are reading a book about water you want the one that would present both sides of the argument. The one that says water is both dry and wet.

That is a different style of argument. A courtroom examination of the evidence is upon (in the model used throughout the English speaking world) having two sides presenting their cases, and relies on that for a thorough examination of the case. Reading McDowell is like having one half of the transcript and trying to decide the verdict. You don't get a clear picture.

He is not trying to get a degree in comparative religion he is trying to find his way back. Saying this book is superficial is like saying a road map is superficial. Mcdowell is a road sign that will get him pointed in the right direction.

I don't think McDowell does that. If you are genuinely questioning and thinking through the issues it raises more problems than it answers, IMO.

His work is accurate and well researched.

Some of it. But my problem is more with the evidence he chooses not to present and the reasoning he applies to the evidence that he does, than the evidence he presents.

 

[JonV]

Hi AMX -- finnaly found a deeper thinker here -- thank you for your advice

 

[JonV]

ebia... I wonder what Christianity would look like today if we did not have the Bible to refer to. I think it might be non-existant

 

[ebia]

ebia... I wonder what Christianity would look like today if we did not have the Bible to refer to. I think it might be non-existant

We would have preserved the important truths it conveys in other ways. The primary message isn't really transmitted through the bible anyway - most people are brought to Christ by other people, not by picking up the bible. God's message is present in, and transmitted through, us first and formost.

 

[amx]

Hi AMX -- finnaly found a deeper thinker here -- thank you for your advice

Thank you JonV. I have walked a road similar to the one you are walking. My crisis of faith was prematurely brought on in junior high when our school decided to experiment with "values clarification." Which is basically attempting to erase the faith taught to us by our parents and replace it with situational ethics (much more PC you see). When I thought God didn't exist I traversed the deepest darkest depression I have ever experienced in my life. McDowell was my sign post to help me find my way back from where magnet school led me. I have prayed that the Lord would renew my child like faith. I believe what He (God) says because He's never been wrong. He says He created the world and everything in it. I believe it. He says the wages of sin is death. I believe Him. He says Christ's blood covers my sins. I believe that too and I am so grateful. He says he's preparing a place for me. I remind Him I like soft fabrics, natural colors and chocolate . His restoration of my childlike faith is a miraculous and personal gift. With a little research and prayer you can have your faith restored back to better than new condition. As much as God loves me He loves you with the same ferver and would love to do this for you.
Blessings to you on this God created day,
Amx

 

[JonV]

amx -- loved your reply - and your obvious enlightened sense of fashion - natural colors and fabrics sounds a lot more inviting then solid gold pavement.

Now you have quoted many wonderful scriptures in your post, these are the words that we hang our beliefs on. My point, that was so conveniently lost on many of the other replies here, was that without a 100% belief in the validity of these writtings we would not have this depth of faith. This takes us back to the annointing of scripture. By definition an annointing is an "Act of God" and is associated with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Our a vessell that gives people an insight into things spiritual -- I could not find any evidence that the word annointed means Messiah.

So we were given scripture in order to have a deeper insight into the character of God and how to bridge or lives to him.

J

 

[amx]

amx -- loved your reply - and your obvious enlightened sense of fashion - natural colors and fabrics sounds a lot more inviting then solid gold pavement.

Now you have quoted many wonderful scriptures in your post, these are the words that we hang our beliefs on. My point, that was so conveniently lost on many of the other replies here, was that without a 100% belief in the validity of these writtings we would not have this depth of faith. This takes us back to the annointing of scripture. By definition an annointing is an "Act of God" and is associated with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Our a vessell that gives people an insight into things spiritual -- I could not find any evidence that the word annointed means Messiah.

So we were given scripture in order to have a deeper insight into the character of God and how to bridge or lives to him.

J

The words we Nazarenes use and I firmly believe is that scripture is "God breathed" and "divinely inspired". Oral traditions tend to degrade over time. What you are running into on this thread is one of the difficulties I have struggled with also. There almost seem to be two versions of Christianity out there. One that holds the living word of God as central to their faith and one that has a different center like "a personal image of Christ.' I have never understood how anyone who didn't live two thousand years ago can claim knowledge of Christ without using scriptures as a foundation for that knowledge. Without scriptural scaffolding our image of Christ becomes weak, permissive and mutable. I can tell you my God is strong and the same from age to age. Although we are living in an age of grace it won't last forever. He will return to clean house. I just want to be ready and acceptable to Him when He returns. Paul tells us to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling." I think he phrased it this way for a reason.
Fear not. He loves you and His timing is perfect. This is the time for you to work through your crisis of faith. You are highly favored to be dealing with this while there is still time. You would not want to have a faith crisis on The Day.